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Creation is Now

Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
"Everything exists in this moment (now). This moment is the basis of all creation. The universe wasn't created the Biblical six thousand years ago or even the scientific fifteen billion. The universe is created right now and right now it disappears. Before you even have time to recognize its existence, it's gone forever. Yet the present moment penetrates all of time and space. In Dogen's words, 'What is happening here and now is obstructed by happening itself; it has sprung free from the brains of happening.'
In other words, we can't know the present in the usual sense because the present is obscured by the present itself and by the act of perceiving it and conceiving of it. Form meets emptiness here and now and all of creation blossoms into being."
~Brad Warner on Dogen's teachings

Do you agree with Brad Warner's consciousness-centred interpretation of reality? Why or why not?
 
Halcyon

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
I have to say, i don't understand what he's saying. Maybe your interpretation could enlighten me?

I'm not even sure there is such a thing as the present...
 
Guitar's Cry

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
I tend to agree and disagree. There is only one moment, and that is eternity. The past and future are defined only by the measurement and memory of change. By measuring change, we can define such things as "past" and "future," but only in abstraction.

I like the phrase "Creation is now" because it focuses on creation as a dynamic force rather than a static event.
 
R

Random

Well-Known Member
Yes, I agree: Creation, or perhaps re-creation, is ongoing and in the everpresent eternity we call now. This is because everything is changing all the time: nothing stays the same from one atomic beat to the next, not least the individual ME (or YOU).

The OP is most consistent with Buddhist thought and philosophy, but I wouldn't call it "consciousness-centred", Patty, that's reductionistic. I would rather say "life-centred" in the light of awareness and spirit, because I believe if people could understand how their minds are constantly stuck in the "past" projecting into the future, a switch might trip to enlighten them that in reality there is only presence and a vital spark lit that restores a vibrant immediacy, beauty and calm to life in the here and now.
 
U

UnTheist

Well-Known Member
doppelgänger;890688 said:
With your name and tagline ("pure as we begin") . . . I thought this would be right up your alley, nihilo.
Click to expand...

Let me reread it a few dozen times. I got the quote from a Tool song.
 
Halcyon

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
Willamena said:
The universe is created right now and right now it disappears. Before you even have time to recognize its existence, it's gone forever. Yet the present moment penetrates all of time and space.
Click to expand...
After re-reading it for the fifteenth time, i get it. This makes sense to me.

Willamena said:
In other words, we can't know the present in the usual sense because the present is obscured by the present itself and by the act of perceiving it and conceiving of it. Form meets emptiness here and now and all of creation blossoms into being."
~Brad Warner on Dogen's teachings

Do you agree with Brad Warner's consciousness-centred interpretation of reality? Why or why not?
Click to expand...
His "in other words" makes less sense to me. I wouldn't say the present is obscured, i would say that there is no present - there is only what has occured and what is yet to occur, because by the time something has happened it is by it's nature already in the past.
 
U

UnTheist

Well-Known Member
Oh, I think I get it now. What we experience is never the real present because it always becomes the past...Or am I missing something?
 
lunamoth

lunamoth

Will to love
We (re)create all of reality and existance, all history and knowledge, in every moment; it only exists as we think it. Cool thought experiment. Not sure how it helps me decide what to cook for dinner though. :D
 
Quagmire

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
lunamoth said:
We (re)create all of reality and existance, all history and knowledge, in every moment; it only exists as we think it. Cool thought experiment. Not sure how it helps me decide what to cook for dinner though. :D
Click to expand...

Yup. Our minds are re-creational vehicles.
icon14.gif


Which explains why so many of us spend so much of our time using them to do dounuts in the dirt.
 
Buttercup

Buttercup

Veteran Member
Willamena said:
"Everything exists in this moment (now). This moment is the basis of all creation. The universe wasn't created the Biblical six thousand years ago or even the scientific fifteen billion. The universe is created right now and right now it disappears. Before you even have time to recognize its existence, it's gone forever. Yet the present moment penetrates all of time and space. In Dogen's words, 'What is happening here and now is obstructed by happening itself; it has sprung free from the brains of happening.'
In other words, we can't know the present in the usual sense because the present is obscured by the present itself and by the act of perceiving it and conceiving of it. Form meets emptiness here and now and all of creation blossoms into being."
~Brad Warner on Dogen's teachings

Do you agree with Brad Warner's consciousness-centred interpretation of reality? Why or why not?
Click to expand...
Sure, I agree with it. But the only thing I really get out of it that we need to live every moment as fully as we can. And we've all heard that before. The past is happening before our very eyes.
 
Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
lunamoth said:
We (re)create all of reality and existance, all history and knowledge, in every moment; it only exists as we think it. Cool thought experiment. Not sure how it helps me decide what to cook for dinner though. :D
Click to expand...
I would say "it only exists for us as we think it," but yeah. :)
 
Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Random said:
The OP is most consistent with Buddhist thought and philosophy, but I wouldn't call it "consciousness-centred", Patty, that's reductionistic. I would rather say "life-centred" in the light of awareness and spirit, because I believe if people could understand how their minds are constantly stuck in the "past" projecting into the future, a switch might trip to enlighten them that in reality there is only presence and a vital spark lit that restores a vibrant immediacy, beauty and calm to life in the here and now.
Click to expand...
Sure; but the author hasn't gotten past the epistemological positioning, yet, at this point in the book, in guiding people to understanding the mystic's perspective.

But what does it mean: reductionist?
 
Buttercup

Buttercup

Veteran Member
You know, Willa? I've had my brain geared for the last 20 minutes in the OP's mystical realm (a perk of working alone ;)) and I must say it reminds me that much of what I do is kind of worthless ya know? I need to get out and help people more than I do.

Sorry, random thought.....but I appreciate the nudge. :hug:
 
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