Couple who waved guns at protesters pardoned by MO governor

[Revoltingest]

Although I think that couple are daft as brushes, it was a private 'gated' estate and the crowd was trespassing.
In the UK those two idiots would have been locked up, but in America........ I guess it was normal.

Over here, the cops don't defend people or property.
They only make chalk outlines where the bodies lie,
take pictures, collect evidence, & put up yellow tape.
Trespassers aren't stopped or arrested. So the burden
of self defense falls upon the citizenry. As we say, tis
better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.

And sometimes, the cops are more dangerous than
the hostile crowds.

 

[Kooky]

It's America.
A gated community is a private estate, so any uninvited folks are trespassers.
Waving a gun around in your own private area as a warning is probably 'not unusual' in America.

I'm certainly not a right-winger but masses of Americans won't even blink at what those two nutters did.

I'm curious, what's the penalty for trespassing in Missouri?

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm curious, what's the penalty for trespassing in Missouri?

Oldbadger isn't a Missourian or even an Ameristanian.
Better to look it up yourself than to expect him to.

 

[Aštra’el]

So you think people who are protesting police brutality and inequality are deranged lunatics?

That depends on if they are out there vandalizing buildings, looting stores and destroying them, burning businesses down to the ground, assaulting people who do not share their opinions, attacking the police, breaking into peoples’ properties, threatening violence against individuals or their families, all while conducting these “protests”, to try and force people to adopt their political views.

 

[F1fan]

That depends on if they are out there vandalizing buildings, looting stores and destroying them, burning businesses down to the ground, assaulting people who do not share their opinions, attacking the police, breaking into peoples’ properties, threatening violence against individuals or their families, all while conducting these “protests”, to try and force people to adopt their political views.

No, the other 92% of peaceful protestors, like those walking by this couple's house.

So answer that option.

 

[oldbadger]

"Waving" a gun around might not be deemed a direct threat. However holding a gun and pointing it at people walking by, even if trespassing, is threatening. The Castle Doctrine laws tend to only apply to INSIDE a house, not on property. These two violated laws and were convicted.

....but got pardoned. I don't much like gun nuts nor extreme rightists but the Governor did have a point.,
I don't know about the US, but where I live if any one of the trespassers had been carrying a knife, club, gun etc then they would have been committing the serious offence of 'armed trespass'.

 

[oldbadger]

There aren’t many gated estates in the U.K. though are there? Unless you count the ones owned by the Queen.

And thank heaven for that, what an offensive concept, building walled ghettos for the rich.

Yes. There are quite a lot, they just exist in secluded places. Sunningdale is one. And many private roads are gated.

 

[oldbadger]

I'm curious, what's the penalty for trespassing in Missouri?

If any single trespasser had any kind of a weapon with them then the offence is hugely serious in the UK would be 'Armed Trespass'.
In Missouri? Did they open or break an entrance gate? Breaking and entering? I don't know, but if I was living in a gated estate and a crowd came in to it I'd be scared... definitely.
Those nuts were scared.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Yes. There are quite a lot, they just exist in secluded places. Sunningdale is one. And many private roads are gated.

I just looked that up. Presume you mean the Wentworth Estate? Didn’t know about that place. According to Wikipedia, there is a mix of public and private roads within it’s borders.

Unlikely that one of the residents will shoot the postman or paperboy, I suppose - Surrey isn’t South Carolina. Still, though. Bollocks to them and their gated community imho.

 

[oldbadger]

I just looked that up. Presume you mean the Wentworth Estate? Didn’t know about that place. According to Wikipedia, there is a mix of public and private roads within it’s borders.

Yes, Wentworth......
The private roads and areas are gated, with real gates and security officers on duty.

Unlikely that one of the residents will shoot the postman or paperboy, I suppose -

The security officers let genuine visitors in.

Surrey isn’t South Carolina. Still, though. Bollocks to them and their gated community imho.

The UK police would race to a 'gatecrashed' community here, but I see that in the US they leave all that to the residents.
It's just a whole private area instead of a private front and back garden.
I wouldn't threaten our postie when he comes, nor even the sales-caller, but if a mob came marching up our roads here I'd call the police .... definitely.

But I don't live in a wealthy home, in fact our little place is one of the least valuable freehold props in the whole area.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Yes, Wentworth......
The private roads and areas are gated, with real gates and security officers on duty.


The security officers let genuine visitors in.


The UK police would race to a 'gatecrashed' community here, but I see that in the US they leave all that to the residents.
It's just a whole private area instead of a private front and back garden.
I wouldn't threaten our postie when he comes, nor even the sales-caller, but if a mob came marching up our roads here I'd call the police .... definitely.

But I don't live in a wealthy home, in fact our little place is one of the least valuable freehold props in the whole area.

You live in a gated community?


You've got me thinking now. I think there's security guards at the entrance to Princes Park Manor in North London, which is a private redevelopment of the old Colney Hatch Mental Hospital.

 

[oldbadger]

You live in a gated community?

No....... we live in a tiny little home, smallest in the district, I expect.

You've got me thinking now. I think there's security guards at the entrance to Princes Park Manor in North London, which is a private redevelopment of the old Colney Hatch Mental Hospital.

I expect that there are many such areas, but they are as discreet as possible.
Celebrities who are fed up with folks and photographers outside their homes can go to these places, if they cannot afford their own walled and gated homes.

 

[Kooky]

If any single trespasser had any kind of a weapon with them then the offence is hugely serious in the UK would be 'Armed Trespass'.
In Missouri? Did they open or break an entrance gate? Breaking and entering? I don't know, but if I was living in a gated estate and a crowd came in to it I'd be scared... definitely.
Those nuts were scared.

I keep forgetting that US laws allow you to shoot people of color when you're really scared.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I keep forgetting that US laws allow you to shoot people of color when you're really scared.

Only if they’re walking past your front lawn apparently.

They don’t have to be on it, walking past will do…

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It's tiresome when such terms are used for people who invade private property without permission.

Quite the "invasion." They "invaded private property" as much as the Fedex guy delivering a package to their neighbour does every day.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'm curious, what's the penalty for trespassing in Missouri?

If you're on an easement, being on private property may not be trespassing at all.

The property arrangement on Portland Place is interesting: it's not like a condo, where each person owns their individual property and the common spaces are owned by the condo corporation.

Instead, each individual property extends out to the roadway centreline(ish), and this road for common access to the entire neighbourhood runs across all of the properties on the street.

This means that there's certainly some sort of easement across their property. Exactly who the easement is in favour of is something I'm not in a position to tell, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's an access easement on title in favour of someone (most likely the other properties on the street, at least).

I'm also not in the position to say whether the McCloskeys did all the things necessary to prevent a prescriptive easement from being created.

Your Loss, My Gain: Easements in Missouri | e-LawLines

So...

- if anyone on his street had welcomed the protestors and invited them to visit or refresh themselves, the protestors would likely have had every right to be there.

- if the McCloskeys didn't do everything perfectly over the preceding years to prevent a prescriptive easement from being created across their property, then the protestors would have had every right to be there.

Maybe before pulling their guns out, the McCloskeys should have called each and every one of their neighbours to confirm that none of them had given permission for the protesters to come into the neighbourhood.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Quite the "invasion." They "invaded private property" as much as the Fedex guy delivering a package to their neighbour does every day.

Depends on how it's viewed.

I suppose their intentions were on par with a FedEx employee or contractor.

 

[oldbadger]

I keep forgetting that US laws allow you to shoot people of color when you're really scared.

What, US cops? Yes, that needs sorting out. But they won't allow me to do that Kooky. I am a Brit. I'd get nicked if I wiggled a pea shooter at any body. Brandishing a pea-shooter in a public place. Years and years in nick for that.

 

[SkepticThinker]

The crowd weren’t “protesters”, they were trespassers on private property and menacing the owners.

No, they weren't.

They were passing by on the way to their actual destination.

I can't believe anyone would defend these two fools and their reckless actions in aiming guns at a crowd of people.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Is that why Andrew Cuomo sexually harassed all those women?

Hmm, take a look at who is demanding that he resign. Notice that it includes Democrats.

How many Republicans demanded Trump resign when 17+ women accused him of sexual harrassment, and it was revealed that he paid off porn stars that he had sex with?

Nice try.