Confusion in just the fifth commandment and implications

[McBell]

You have not supported your claim that Saturday is not the seventh day. Again, look at a calendar.

I have not made a claim in this thread other than the claim that you have not supported your claim.

So, are you going to present the scripture that supports your claim?

 

[metis]

Well if you read the commandment it says you should work six days and rest on the seventh. So if every day is the sabbath then when do you work? The whole point is to remember the day God rested after working six days. It has nothing to do with remembering every day.

It says to honor the "Sabbath", and the "Sabbath" is literally a day of the week-- not just any day.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

The scripture is that God rested on the seventh day of creation and wants people to remember and honor that day. He did not rest on the first day.

 

[McBell]

The scripture is that God rested on the seventh day of creation and wants people to remember and honor that day. He did not rest on the first day.

*yawn*
which day, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, or Sunday, is the "seventh day"?
Remember now, you need to present from scripture.

 

[metis]

*yawn*
which day, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, or Sunday, is the "seventh day"?
Remember now, you need to present from scripture.

"Shabbat" is the name for the 7th day, and it runs Friday sundown to Saturday sundown. In scripture, it is found starting in Exodus 16.

 

[McBell]

"Shabbat" is the name for the 7th day, and it runs Friday sundown to Saturday sundown. In scripture, it is found starting in Exodus 16.

You will need to be more specific.
I do not find the words Friday or Saturday.

Though it might be the KJV I used....

 

[metis]

You will need to be more specific.
I do not find the words Friday or Saturday.

Though it might be the KJV I used....

Obviously "Friday or Saturday" would not be found in scripture because they're in English, not Hebrew. I don't think that Jews lost track of which day of the week it was.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

"Shabbat" is the name for the 7th day, and it runs Friday sundown to Saturday sundown. In scripture, it is found starting in Exodus 16.

Can I ask? Before the days where named Monday-Sunday (or named by the Jewish Calendar, Sunday-Saturday?), wouldn't the seventh day be the day after the earth revolved around the earth the sixth time? If we did not name the days, how would you tell which is the seventh day other than then the rotation of the earth and not a specific day in and of itself?

Shouldn't we approach it by the earth rotation and not by our individual calendars whether it be the Gregorian Calendar, Jewish Calendar, or otherwise?

@lostwanderingsoul I think this is what @Mestemia was talking about. She/hes just using the names of the week. If we took out the names, Lostwandering, then which day is the seventh day? Do the names matter in deciding which is the seventh day?

 

[columbus]

Keep in mind that our ETERNAL salvation or damnation depends upon being able to guess the proper meaning of all 700,000+ words - not just the few given in the fifth commandment.

It's too bad religious people get so wrought up in the minutiae.
I don't believe that there is a god who cares about which day of the week people sabbath on. But the idea that every 7th day everybody who possibly can kicks back seems like a really good thing to me.
Play with your kids. Pursue a hobby. Plant some flowers. Fix yummy timeconsuming food. Who cares how people spend their day off, as long as it is the kind of fun stuff that is important, but they often overlook in the daily grind. And it may as well be the same day for everyone so you can spend time with your family and friends and maybe even a friend you haven't met yet.
Sabbath is an excellent concept and I don't care what religionists think that God meant millenia ago.
Tom

 

[metis]

Can I ask? Before the days where named Monday-Sunday (or named by the Jewish Calendar, Sunday-Saturday?), wouldn't the seventh day be the day after the earth revolved around the earth the sixth time? If we did not name the days, how would you tell which is the seventh day other than then the rotation of the earth and not a specific day in and of itself?

Shouldn't we approach it by the earth rotation and not by our individual calendars whether it be the Gregorian Calendar, Jewish Calendar, or otherwise?

When we read in Genesis about God resting on Shabbat, let's just assume for one minute that there was no follow-up necessity for us mortals to observe it as it hadn't yet been prescribed for us at that point. IOW, it just says that God rested on Shabbat.

OK, now move forward in time to Moses on Sinai whereas he receives the Decalogue with directions, which are repeated even later in Torah, that it must be observed. So, no matter which day of the week would be referred to in Genesis, it is made abundantly clear in Exodus and beyond which day that was and is.

Just a reminder that Gentiles need not be concerned about this because the Law is only for Jews, with only some of the Commandments being in force for Gentiles living in Israel.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I read the whole post...

So, no matter which day of the week would be referred to in Genesis, it is made abundantly clear in Exodus and beyond which day that was and is.

Does it say in Hebrew what the name of the day actually is?

 

[metis]

I read the whole post...

Does it say in Hebrew what the name of the day actually is?

"Shabbat", which is where the more anglicised word "Sabbath" comes from.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

"Shabbat", which is where the more anglicized word "Sabbath" comes from.

Edited

For example, Tuesday is, say, corresponds with the second day of the week (pretending the week starts on Monday). Which day of the week does the Shabbat refer to on the Hebrew Calendar?

Does the Hebrew Calendar list the days of the week like the Gregorian Calendar does Sunday-Saturday?

That, and...

If we counted the rotation of the earth from Sunday sorry, today, (without looking at the calendar) to the seventh day, whichever day that the seventh falls on would technically be the seventh day of the month. If that days falls on a Sunday or Monday, accidentally, wouldn't that be technically correct or do Jews go by what's written rather than the actual rotation of the earth-even though they may not be aligned with each other, if we missed a leap year?

 

[metis]

Edited

For example, Tuesday is, say, corresponds with the second day of the week (pretending the week starts on Monday). Which day of the week does the Shabbat refer to on the Hebrew Calendar?

Does the Hebrew Calendar list the days of the week like the Gregorian Calendar does Sunday-Saturday?

That, and...

If we counted the rotation of the earth from Sunday sorry, today, (without looking at the calendar) to the seventh day, whichever day that the seventh falls on would technically be the seventh day of the month. If that days falls on a Sunday or Monday, accidentally, wouldn't that be technically correct or do Jews go by what's written rather than the actual rotation of the earth-even though they may not be aligned with each other, if we missed a leap year?

There are different names to each day of the week, all in Hebrew of course. The rotation of the Earth doesn't figure in when it comes to days of the week, but it does figure in when we deal with the calendar, which is why Rosh Hashanah "floats", much like Easter does.

 

[metis]

Sabbath is an excellent concept and I don't care what religionists think that God meant millenia ago.
Tom

And that's why for Gentiles, from a Jewish perspective, it doesn't make a difference which day one may use. But for Jews it's a different matter since the issue of community is very important.

 

[Deeje]

Seems to me that the Sabbath law was given to Israel (as a nation dedicated to God) so that at least one day in the week was devoted to spiritual pursuits rather than to selfish ones.
The Jews kept a lunar calendar and in their sojourn in the wilderness, God miraculously provided the manna, which did not appear on the seventh day.....a double amount was produced the day before so that the Israelites did not have to work on the seventh day. I assume from that, that they knew which was the right day.

For Christians however, many of whom were gentiles, no Sabbath law applied. It was not included in the "necessary things" that were incumbent upon gentile Christians.....like circumcision. (Acts of the Apostles 15:28-29) The Jews however could still keep it if they wished, as can all Christians if they personally want to. But it isn't a law anymore.

There was no command to change the Sabbath to Sunday because Christians did not have to keep a Sabbath anyway. Having "died" to their former ways, Christians put the doing of God's will first in their lives every day. (Matthew 6:33) Jesus is "Lord of the Sabbath". (Matthew 12:1-8)

The "Lord's day" is not Sunday. The church made that up to incorporate pagan sun worship. Sunday was a day already dedicated to the sun god in Rome.

 

[metis]

Seems to me that the Sabbath law was given to Israel (as a nation dedicated to God) so that at least one day in the week was devoted to spiritual pursuits rather than to selfish ones.
The Jews kept a lunar calendar and in their sojourn in the wilderness, God miraculously provided the manna, which did not appear on the seventh day.....a double amount was produced the day before so that the Israelites did not have to work on the seventh day. I assume from that, that they knew which was the right day.

For Christians however, many of whom were gentiles, no Sabbath law applied. It was not included in the "necessary things" that were incumbent upon gentile Christians.....like circumcision. (Acts of the Apostles 15:28-29) The Jews however could still keep it if they wished, as can all Christians if they personally want to. But it isn't a law anymore.

There was no command to change the Sabbath to Sunday because Christians did not have to keep a Sabbath anyway. Having "died" to their former ways, Christians put the doing of God's will first in their lives every day. (Matthew 6:33) Jesus is "Lord of the Sabbath". (Matthew 12:1-8)

The "Lord's day" is not Sunday. The church made that up to incorporate pagan sun worship. Sunday was a day already dedicated to the sun god in Rome.

Actually, the use of the term "the Lord's Day" was used in the early church, but where I think the confusion comes in is that the word "Lord" in this case refers to Jesus. The transition was gradual, taking place in the 2nd century through the celebration of the "agape meal", which was on Sunday, that eventually took priority over Shabbat.

The rest of your post is correct as the observance of the full Law is only mandated for Jews.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

There are different names to each day of the week, all in Hebrew of course. The rotation of the Earth doesn't figure in when it comes to days of the week, but it does figure in when we deal with the calendar, which is why Rosh Hashanah "floats", much like Easter does.

Hmm. Interesting. I'm actually honest here, but if the rotation of the earth doesn't figure when it comes to the days of the week, what is the Hebrew calendar based on?

I looked up different calendars. Some are based on seasons while, say the Buddhist calendar (from what I looked up) is lunar. So when Theravada Buddhist (unless corrected) take the precepts, they customary do so during the phases of the moon. Of course, you have other calendars based on various things, Wiccan and so forth.

I ask because if the calendars wasn't based on the rotation of the earth whether it be by lunar cycles or seasons then the days would literally be defined by the time the sun rises and sets. So basically, a week can be five days long or ten days long depending on how a person wants to set it up.

So that makes me think how Jews set up their calendar as well.

 

[RabbiO]

For example, Tuesday is, say, corresponds with the second day of the week (pretending the week starts on Monday). Which day of the week does the Shabbat refer to on the Hebrew Calendar?

Does the Hebrew Calendar list the days of the week like the Gregorian Calendar does Sunday-Saturday?

Actually the days of the week are designated by number. For example,on a Hebrew calendar Sunday is Yom Rishon, First Day, Monday, is Yom Shanee, Second Day and so on.

I wouldn't normally be posting in the Christian DIR, but everybody has already trampled the grass on the lawn. But I suspect we might take this opportunity, we non-Christians, to make our way to the door.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Actually the days of the week are designated by number. For example,on a Hebrew calendar Sunday is Yom Rishon, First Day, Monday, is Yom Shanee, Second Day and so on.

I wouldn't normally be posting in the Christian DIR, but everybody has already trampled the grass on the lawn. But I suspect we might take this opportunity, we non-Christians, to make our way to the door.

Yeah. That's why I reply in series of questions. Harder to converse but I was curious nonetheless.

If I think of anymore questions, I'll bring up an interfaith thread.

Thank you and @metis

I don't have any more Christian-related questions; so I'm out.

Nam.