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Featured Confessing Jesus as Lord

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Riders, Dec 4, 2016.

  1. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    Why are Christians against the bible? My sisters have told me Jesus is God and I have to believe and express myself talking about Jesus as God.

    When I say there are many tittles for Jesus ,they say the bible says to confess with your mouth Jesus is God.

    A bunch of Christians have said that to me. This is the exact scripture they are referring to which says I have to tell them Jesus is God as if they were investigating me.

    Romans 10:9 [Full Chapter]
    If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

    The exact word is Lord, its Lord and Lord has many interpretations. if I say ok Ill confess him as Lord and interpret lord the way I understand. Nope your not allowed you have to Jesus is God out loud.

    Now if your a Christian and get on here and say look at this scripture it says Jesus is God your wrong. I'm not talking about any scripture, yes there are scriptures that Christians interpret as proof of the deity of Jesus I don't deny that.

    I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about verbally taking action of verbally accepting Jesus, there's one scripture. CHristians bring it up and say you have to say Jesus is God that's a lie. The scripture says this

    Romans 10:9 [Full Chapter]
    If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

    That means you don't believe in the bible.

    Period. There's a period there. There are a million different verbs to use to express myself about Jesus, Emanuel, Messiah, Son Of God and when I do that y'all also get offended and tell me I have to say he's God.

    I'm starting to think you guys have an OCD about saying Jesus is God. BTW anytime someone says they are a Christian your reactions should be Praise God period. If you go around giving people a Christian test forcing them to say Jesus is God, that's a test that's not in the bible.

    ALl it means is your so scared that people are pretending to be Christians that rent and your terrified that other churches who don't have the same laws your does are all wrong, that they are saying they are Christian.

    If you had any tiny drop of faith you wouldn't go around issuing out the Christian test to people who claim to be Christians you don't know.
     
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  2. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    Hmm...I'm going to admit to being a little outside my depth here. But Trinitarianism has long been one of the more discussed beliefs amongst Christian denominations, and was an early focus of the Church in establishing doctrine from heresy.

    Is it possible this is a remnant of that? Not a check to whether you are Christian, but nore to your beliefs on the Trinity?
     
  3. GodsVoice

    GodsVoice Active Member

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    Not one Christian was ever used to testify to the word of the Lord so it's impossible for them to know the Truth. Jesus had to testify to the word of the Lord and this is why it appeared to unspiritual men that his body was the Lord. However, the body named Jesus died 2,000 years ago and this is what he said to God's disciples who were listening to the Gospel ( voice of the Lord ) Jesus preached to them;

    John 12
    44: And Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me.
    45: And he who sees me sees him who sent me.
    46: I have come as light into the world, that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness.
    47: If any one hears my sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
    48: He who rejects me and does not receive my sayings has a judge; the word that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.
    49: For I have not spoken on my own authority; the Father who sent me has himself given me commandment what to say and what to speak.
    50: And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has bidden me."

    John 14
    23: Jesus answered him, "If a man loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
    24: He who does not love me does not keep my words; and the word which you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me.
    25: "These things I have spoken to you, while I am still with you.
    26: But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
     
  4. buddhist

    buddhist Well-Known Member

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    Too bad ... mute people, and those who don't know English, can't be saved. Joke's on them!
     
  5. Sultan Of Swing

    Sultan Of Swing Well-Known Member

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    On the "Lord" point firstly, and it having many interpretations, how do we determine the correct interpretation? Perhaps by looking at the surrounding Scripture, which indeed would also tell us that Jesus is God?

    Now leaving the "Lord" issue aside for one moment, and looking at the second part, believing in the heart, how do we know if we truly believe that Jesus was raised from the dead?

    As it says in 1 Corinthians if we think we stand, we should take heed lest we fall.

    We see in 1 Corinthians 15 a clear logical structure from Paul in which he first establishes the truth of the resurrection, followed by saying that if you believe in the resurrection of Jesus, it therefore follows we must believe in the resurrection of all Christians, and further that if you truly believe in the resurrection of all Christians, you would, as Paul has done, "fight with beasts in Ephesus", basically giving up ourselves for the Gospel and doing all things for its sake, making that our priority.

    So there is a question as to how we know we truly believe, and true belief has its fruit in how we live for the Gospel etc.

    If you agree with me thus far, and agree with all of those points, perhaps we can move onto how living for the sake of the Gospel may then also necessitate a right belief in Jesus' deity.
     
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  6. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    I'm a Zen Meditator who is Pagan. But I live with Christian sisters.
     
  7. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    If that's a remark about my English hardy har har. But if it keeps me out of the Christian heaven its a compliment, so your forgiven.
     
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  8. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    Sorry. I didn't think you were Christian, but read the 'tell me I have to say Jesus is God' part a little too literally.

    Unless...they think you are Christian?
     
  9. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    Ive considered the idea of being a Universal Christian and or a Metaphysical Christian along with Pagan and Zen meditation. That would mean I would join with UNity who does not teach Jesus as God. Jesus is the Son of God just like we are all Children of God, any scripture with a Jesus and God reference is a reference tot he belief in the inner Godself instead of Jesus as God.

    Unity is a good church, and they are Universal, its a good place, I still might consider that in the future.
     
  10. buddhist

    buddhist Well-Known Member

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    No, it wasn't a jibe at your English, but at the Bible and its demands. Seriously, mute people can't say "Jesus is Lord". :D
     
  11. Brian Schuh

    Brian Schuh Well-Known Member

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    If I confess Jesus as lord with my mouth, which is what St. Paul says I must do, the one who hears the confession doesn't know it is lord with a small "l", like I would confess a lord from the House of Lords in Great Britain.

    If you look at the AENT (Aramaic English New Testament) Jesus is only referred to as Yahweh one time in the New Testament, in the Gospel of Mathew, and the corresponding passage in the synoptic gospels make it clear that it is a scribal mistake.

    Yahweh never had flesh and blood. No man has ever been the almighty god. Not the pharaoh of Egypt, not the mighty king of Babylon, not the pope, not Augustus Caesar of Rome, as well as not Jesus.

    Well, I'm told, God can do anything, even incarnate himself as a man. But doesn't mean that just because he can, that he did.

    Yes, Jesus is lord, but not LORD.
     
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  12. Brian Schuh

    Brian Schuh Well-Known Member

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    Where did Jesus ever tell us to pray to him? He said to pray, "Our Father who art in heaven." Yes, Jesus accepted homage from people. But any royalty can accept homage. I can bow my head to the Queen of England and still be a good observant Jew. Jesus never told us to worship him or to pray to him. I confess him as lord mainly to get Christians off my back. I doesn't matter to me if he is lord, or a circus clown. He is irrelevant to my life.
     
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  13. atpollard

    atpollard Active Member

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    We're not.
    Why do pagans tell Christians what we beleve about the Bible?

    Let's be honest, you are not looking for an answer to a question, you are looking for an argument from Christians or affirmation from other non-christians.
    Towards what end?
    By your own admission, you have no desire to believe or trust in the Jesus of the Bible and are content with the path you have chosen for yourself.
    Good luck finding 'the Truth' rather than 'a truth'.
     
  14. DragonHawk1959

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    Be not as the Pharisees for they delight to make a show of their faith .
    Rather go into your room and pray. And our father who sees what is done in secret will hear and answer.

    As to the question. Many Christians dislike the Bible because it requires more of them than merely confessing Jesus is Lord. And they do not understand what it requires.
    Then there is the problem of passages which show that Jesus was not equal to God on Earth, and is not equal to God in heaven.
    But of that day or hour none know.
    Not the angels in Heaven.
    Nor even the Son.
    But only the Father knows.
     
    #14 DragonHawk1959, Dec 5, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2016
  15. ahamtatsat

    ahamtatsat The Stranger

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    Well i'm kind of with you. Raised as a fun-duh-mentalist christian i never fit the mold - recalling parts of 3 prior lives when born, first time-stamp memory from about 6 weeks getting baptized, etc. Had tons of "psychic" spiritual phenomenon happen - so personal experience has provided me with personal proof (non transferable, unfortunately - but that's the design) that God is WAY different than people are told.
    You REALLY have to experience "Him" to start gettin even a touch of the reality.
    So - one thing i noted all the way through was the way that Jesus always referred to himself as the "SON OF MAN" - not the Son of God, and NEVER as the ONLY Son of God. That's Paul - and he changed ****, i don't care how much "christians" and Christians deny that fact.

    One huge point is that Jesus INSTRUCTED people to pray to God "OUR Father". Not "only MY Father". Not - pray through ME! Nope - we're all supposed to DIRECTLY PRAY TO THE DIVINE and not use intermediaries. That alone would have saved so much grief in this world as people who are very religious but spiritually ignorant would not have had the manipulative, political (and business) concepts to move people in the bad directions they have historically.
     
  16. azim24

    azim24 Member

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    Also there are many verses about that in Quran that supports you.I will show some of these.
    And indeed, there is among them a party who alter the Scripture with their tongues so you may think it is from the Scripture, but it is not from the Scripture. And they say, "This is from Allah ," but it is not from Allah . And they speak untruth about Allah while they know.3:78
    It is not for a human [prophet] that Allah should give him the Scripture and authority and prophethood and then he would say to the people, "Be servants to me rather than Allah ," but [instead, he would say], "Be pious scholars of the Lord because of what you have taught of the Scripture and because of what you have studied."3:79
    Nor could he order you to take the angels and prophets as lords. Would he order you to disbelief after you had been Muslims?3:80
    And [recall, O People of the Scripture], when Allah took the covenant of the prophets, [saying], "Whatever I give you of the Scripture and wisdom and then there comes to you a messenger confirming what is with you, you [must] believe in him and support him." [ Allah ] said, "Have you acknowledged and taken upon that My commitment?" They said, "We have acknowledged it." He said, "Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses."3:81
    And whoever turned away after that - they were the defiantly disobedient.3:82
    So is it other than the religion of Allah they desire, while to Him have submitted [all] those within the heavens and earth, willingly or by compulsion, and to Him they will be returned?3:83
    Say, "We have believed in Allah and in what was revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Descendants, and in what was given to Moses and Jesus and to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [submitting] to Him."3:84
    And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers.3:85
    How shall Allah guide a people who disbelieved after their belief and had witnessed that the Messenger is true and clear signs had come to them? And Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people.3:86
    Those - their recompense will be that upon them is the curse of Allah and the angels and the people, all together,3:87
    Abiding eternally therein. The punishment will not be lightened for them, nor will they be reprieved.3:88
    Except for those who repent after that and correct themselves. For indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.3:89
     
  17. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    Your post raises a question that's plagued me for decades. How is it that an all-powerful all-knowing God can be such a HORRIBLE communicator? Supposedly He has this message of vital importance to the salvation of our eternal souls, yet he chooses to use the childish game of 'telephone' as the method for spreading his all important WORD. Thousands of years later we have self-professed Christians arguing over whether or not one must speak the words "Jesus is God" in order to be saved. Not only do you have millions of Christians disagreeing on what God's Word is, there are millions of others can't find any reason to give the Christian bible any more legitimacy as God's Word as any other of the many religious texts out there. I don't know, I just expect more from an all powerful being than to simply whisper his message into the ears of ancient shepherds and expect it to remain intelligible a hundred years later, let along for thousands of years. It's a system that's almost designed to created confusion and violent disagreement over the generations.
     
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  18. Mercurio

    Mercurio Member

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    It reads lord, so why alter it? This may explain it:

    1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
     
  19. Mercurio

    Mercurio Member

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    It seems to me most people don't really read the Bible (in whatever translation they have) to see what it actually says. They start off with ideas taught to them by other people and then try to find passages to show they're right. If they have to alter a word to get a passage to say what they want it to say, they'll do it.

    It seems to me many if not most people who say they're Christians don't really take the Bible seriously.

    Why did God whisper to shepherds and others? If you take the Bible's explanation, it's because people weren't willing to listen to God -- it was the only way to get anything across. People have their reasons for not wanting to hear from God; and when they pick up a Bible, those reasons are still often there. They have their biases and prejudices; and they want to hear some things and not others.

    It also seems to me that few people use the Bible to tell them when something they believe is wrong. They are too busy trying to prove what they already believe is true. If they run into a passage that contradicts one of their beliefs, they don't question their belief but proceed anyway. They can read the passage that says the Scriptures are good for correction and reproof, and then never use them that way.

    Why be surprised by this? Jesus in his day said the Jews had altered the truth with their traditions. Why be surprised if Christians did the same thing with their traditions? I wouldn't blame God for this. If we follow false teachers, why is that? I say it's because we want to be fooled. We see the same thing in the Muslim world with all kinds of teachings being propagated by their teachers -- some of which contradict the Quran.

    What I think we should believe is that if any person sincerely wants the truth, if there is a God, He will provide. "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear."

    I remember telling myself I knew next to nothing. Brought up a Christian, I had become an atheist. But later I realized I knew almost nothing. I had studied other religions and am still thankful I had. When I picked up the Bible again, it was with complete humility, knowing I didn't know what it said or meant. I also didn't jump to conclusions as I read. I had read the Tao Te Ching which says to think you know when you don't is a big problem.
    Remember Eve wanting to be like God --- as wise as God? Ha, ha, ha. If you read the Bible wanting to be as wise as God, you failed one of the first lessons in the book. The Bible itself asserts the Scriptures were given to help us become better people -- to encourage good deeds. But people want to think it's about learning the hidden secrets of God. Of course, they'll go wrong.

    Deuteronomy 29:29 The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

    Let's be serious. Many religions including Christianity appeal to people who don't want to become better people but who want to think having the "right ideas" is going to be enough to save them. It's too much of the intellectual and not enough action. It's not real.
     
  20. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Grief! I hear that all the time, that "Jesus is God"!
    Read to your sisters, Psalms 110:1..... In Mark 12, Jesus applied the second "Lord" (where David said "my Lord") to Himself. Jesus couldn't have been the first "LORD" (all capitals); otherwise, He's talking to Himself!

    It just proves that taking God's Name (Yahweh, Jehovah in English) out of the Bible and replacing it with "LORD" can be confusing!

    Take care.
     
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