Concept of Hindu Dharma (not religoin)

[nameless]

Nameless ji, i have a question for you.
Are guru's the maker of religion, or religion is the maker of guru's ?
Who's the beginer of any religion, you think ? its guru, or religion itself ?

Honestly i dont know..., but to my understanding Guru's wont create any religion, because it creates separation among people(like believers and unbelievers), actually spirituality is for uniting people. As far as i know islam and christianity etc are religions, but hinduism is not, because it has no founder, the idea of religion entered into the hindu's mind only after the abrahamics came in and started to make distinction on the basis of the path people follow.

 

[nameless]

Path was to follow guru.

Guru Brahma Gurur Vishnu Guru Devo Maheshwaraha Guru Saakshat Para Brahma Tasmai Sree Gurave namahah !!
Hindus followed living gurus(as god) at all the time, but would the christians and muslims follow any?

 

[chinu]

Honestly i dont know..., but to my understanding Guru's wont create any religion, because it creates separation among people(like believers and unbelievers), actually spirituality is for uniting people. As far as i know islam and christianity etc are religions, but hinduism is not, because it has no founder, the idea of religion entered into the hindu's mind only after the abrahamics came in and started to make distinction on the basis of faith.

Nameless ji, i think you didn't got my question properly, so let me rephrase it once more. Q: Who came firstly on this earth ? Religion/sect, or Guru.

 

[nameless]

Nameless ji, i think you didn't got my question properly, so let me rephrase it once more. Q: Who came firstly on this earth ? Religion/sect, or Guru.

sorry for that, if you mean Dharma, but not relgion, then Guru came first.

 

[chinu]

sorry for that, Guru came first.

Thus.. which one is more important ? religion, or guru.

 

[nameless]

Thus.. which one is more important ? religion, or guru.

Guru is more important than dharma

 

[Vinayaka]

I agree with Nameless. As for the origins of it, I can only venture a guess. Some person, at some time, sat still, and started to notice things happening inside as well as outside. Maybe he had visions, or clarity ... something different that his normal thinking of how to get the next meal. But whatever it was, he found it very interesting ... and so he continued, and than with deeper and deeper meditation. he became more and more astute about life.

Eventually some other guy came along and realised that this person knew a lot more that he did himself ... a whole lot more, so he humbly begged ... "Can you teach me?" ... ant the first Guru was born. Then whole groups decided to do the same thing, and with each new dive within, new truths were uncovered. So Hinduism, not as we know it today, but quite similar was born.

 

[Viraja]

I agree with Nameless. As for the origins of it, I can only venture a guess. Some person, at some time, sat still, and started to notice things happening inside as well as outside. Maybe he had visions, or clarity ... something different that his normal thinking of how to get the next meal. But whatever it was, he found it very interesting ... and so he continued, and than with deeper and deeper meditation. he became more and more astute about life.

Eventually some other guy came along and realised that this person knew a lot more that he did himself ... a whole lot more, so he humbly begged ... "Can you teach me?" ... ant the first Guru was born. Then whole groups decided to do the same thing, and with each new dive within, new truths were uncovered. So Hinduism, not as we know it today, but quite similar was born.

That was sorta funny (atleast to me)

In my sampradaya, Sriman Narayana is the first guru and his sishya being mother Mahalakshmi. And Mahalakshmi is guru to the entire SriVaishnava guru parampara. So it begins from god.

 

[Kalidas]

So now I wonder. Is Hinduism a religion(not like a religion by "normal" standards)? I always thought a belief in and worship of a divine being made something religious. Obviously not Hindus do this like our OP atheisthindu but a lot of us do. I know the path and way to be a Hindu is not really really religious as it is a way of life, but does it not at least have religious habits or beliefs?

 

[Viraja]

I know the path and way to be a Hindu is not really really religious as it is a way of life, but does it not at least have religious habits or beliefs?

Yes, in olden days it involved i) Not eating outside food ii) Not eating non-vegetarian food iii) Not going overseas iv) Observing fasts v) Lots of rituals for Brahmins - like the sacred thread ceremony for boys.

Even to this day, many of the rituals are preserved and it is part and parcel of being a Hindu.

 

[Vinayaka]

So now I wonder. Is Hinduism a religion(not like a religion by "normal" standards)?

It's all in words, and doesn't really matter. Some people call it a religion,. Others claim it isn't. It is what it is, whether you call it a religion or not. Others insist always on calling it Sanatana Dharma, and can go on for hours why not to call it Hinduism. Whether we like it or not, the vast majority of people today refer to it as both a religion, and as Hinduism. Personally, I just go with that majority. Why argue?

 

[Kalidas]

It's all in words, and doesn't really matter. Some people call it a religion,. Others claim it isn't. It is what it is, whether you call it a religion or not. Others insist always on calling it Sanatana Dharma, and can go on for hours why not to call it Hinduism. Whether we like it or not, the vast majority of people today refer to it as both a religion, and as Hinduism. Personally, I just go with that majority. Why argue?

Good point why argue?

 

[Kalidas]

Yes, in olden days it involved i) Not eating outside food ii) Not eating non-vegetarian food iii) Not going overseas iv) Observing fasts v) Lots of rituals for Brahmins - like the sacred thread ceremony for boys.

Even to this day, many of the rituals are preserved and it is part and parcel of being a Hindu.

Oh okay I think I kind of get it. Its like it has religious traditions that even survive today, yet the dharma part is a way of life and living. Maybe its both?

 

[Viraja]

Oh okay I think I kind of get it. Its like it has religious traditions that even survive today, yet the dharma part is a way of life and living. Maybe its both?

Lemaster (I'm omitting the ji as I think I'm much older than you)

Yes the religious traditions still are alive today - for example, I can think of a few - i) Babies' namakarana (naming) ii) Babies' 1st year head shave iii) Girl coming of age (how embarrassing!) iv) Sacred thread for boys (Brahmin) v) Fire ritual during marriage vi) Cremation and associated rituals such as 'tarpanam', etc. These rituals are alive today.

When you say the dharma part, I am not sure what it means, to my idea being a religious Hindu simply means, belief in god. Along with that, the above said rituals are performed, but there are also lot who are not thorough in performing rituals but are still religious (like my mom's)...

 

[Vinayaka]

Yes the religious traditions still are alive today - for example, I can think of a few - i) Babies' namakarana (naming) ii) Babies' 1st year head shave iii) Girl coming of age (how embarrassing!) iv) Sacred thread for boys (Brahmin) v) Fire ritual during marriage vi) Cremation and associated rituals such as 'tarpanam', etc. These rituals are alive today.

Classically, there are 16 samskaras. But it varies ... sometimes more, sometimes less depending on all the usual things like sect, sampradaya, region, varna, knoledge about, etc.

The 16 Hindu Samskaras

 

[Kalidas]

Lemaster (I'm omitting the ji as I think I'm much older than you)

Yes the religious traditions still are alive today - for example, I can think of a few - i) Babies' namakarana (naming) ii) Babies' 1st year head shave iii) Girl coming of age (how embarrassing!) iv) Sacred thread for boys (Brahmin) v) Fire ritual during marriage vi) Cremation and associated rituals such as 'tarpanam', etc. These rituals are alive today.

When you say the dharma part, I am not sure what it means, to my idea being a religious Hindu simply means, belief in god. Along with that, the above said rituals are performed, but there are also lot who are not thorough in performing rituals but are still religious (like my mom's)...

No offense taken, I won't say how old I am lest people get a hint as to your age which would be rude of me.

I will have to explain it in a way I didn't want to(not your fault). So say when i was a christian everything you do as a Christian you do for some dogmatic reason Ike a minister,church,Bible said to do it. Now with hinduism(I can be totally wrong) seems to have certain things that aren't like religious "law" but merely the right thing to do. Like not all Hindus are vegatarian b!ut many are because they feel it is "the Hindu thing to do" or some don't go to temple and no one has to. But some do because THEY feel it is the "Hindu thing to do" I hope that explains things a bit better.

 

[Viraja]

No offense taken, I won't say how old I am lest people get a hint as to your age which would be rude of me.

I will have to explain it in a way I didn't want to(not your fault). So say when i was a christian everything you do as a Christian you do for some dogmatic reason Ike a minister,church,Bible said to do it. Now with hinduism(I can be totally wrong) seems to have certain things that aren't like religious "law" but merely the right thing to do. Like not all Hindus are vegatarian b!ut many are because they feel it is "the Hindu thing to do" or some don't go to temple and no one has to. But some do because THEY feel it is the "Hindu thing to do" I hope that explains things a bit better.

You are perfectly correct!

And, all I can think of to say is to remind you to read the story of Sri Kannappa - a simple, humble devotee of Lord Shiva, he once tried to offer his own eye to the god, he, otherwise offered Lord Shiva meat which he consumed for prasad! How sweet, god was impressed and he had darshan.

So all these rituals aren't worth worrying too much about if you find them complicated, just simple devotion would do. (IMO).

(Sorry I left my message unfinished earlier, there is a competition b/w me and my son for computer, and I will be gone the whole day tomorrow to SixFlags, newEngland, so my son will have a gala time at the computer time tomorrow ! )

 

[Kalidas]

You are perfectly correct!

And, all I can think of to say is to remind you to read the story of Sri Kannappa - a simple, humble devotee of Lord Shiva, he once tried to offer his own eye to the god, he, otherwise offered Lord Shiva meat which he consumed for prasad! How sweet, god was impressed and he had darshan.

So all these rituals aren't worth worrying too much about if you find them complicated, just simple devotion would do. (IMO).

(Sorry I left my message unfinished earlier, there is a competition b/w me and my son for computer, and I will be gone the whole day tomorrow to SixFlags, newEngland, so my son will have a gala time at the computer time tomorrow ! )

Ooohh fun. Enjoy yourself I command it!

Yeah so to me there things that are traditional religious Hindu practices. But a majority of what we do and believe is not really all that religious (in a dogmatic sense) but are simply "the right thing to do"

 

[Viraja]

Ooohh fun. Enjoy yourself I command it!

Yeah so to me there things that are traditional religious Hindu practices. But a majority of what we do and believe is not really all that religious (in a dogmatic sense) but are simply "the right thing to do"

That would be an accurate observation! For example, going to temple - some do, some don't. Some men go as far as not shaving or not cutting the hair when the wife is pregnant, many don't - as you say, it is all 'internal gut feelings'.

 

[chinu]

Guru is more important than dharma

Ok than.. we should follow any dharma because of Guru, or we should follow any guru because of Dharma ? to whom we should give more importance on this subject ?