Clinton vs. Obama

[UnityNow101]

New Conservative I believe.

 

[Comprehend]

New Conservative I believe.

and what is a new conservative?

I am asking because the term gets thrown around a lot (pejoratively) and usually people have no idea what it means...

 

[UnityNow101]

To be honest, I am not quite sure exactly what the term means. I do believe that it is often used as a deragatory term referring to those who are confined to the "Red States." They are usually labelled as Christians that believe that the Ten Commandments should be posted everywhere and who are largely seen as more "patriotic" although some would argue with that assumption. Hopefully someone else will clear this up for me and Comp, as I am not quite sure myself.

 

[PureX]

Here is some information about who the "neo-cons" (new conservatives) are and what they promote, from a couple of traditionally conservative web sites:

Source Watch

Christian Science Monitor (click on each of the people's photos to find out who they are.)

 

[lilithu]

Barack Obama is just so charismatic and passionate about changing the face of politics and breaths new life into the whole process to me. I really enjoy the guy and find him to be genuinely pure and truthful, although I guess I don't know much about him yet. But from what I have seen, I really like the guy. I am not a big fan of Hillary by the way.

Yeah, I agree. He is the closest thing to Kennedy that we've had in a long time.

Still, when he said he was running I groaned because he's only a newly elected junior senator. I thought it took some arrogance to think that he had a shot. But then I thought that in order to be president, you really do have to have some arrogance. You have to believe that you can do something different and better than everyone else.

And maybe he can. We'll see how he does in the primaries.

 

[PureX]

Yeah, I agree. He is the closest thing to Kennedy that we've had in a long time.

Still, when he said he was running I groaned because he's only a newly elected junior senator. I thought it took some arrogance to think that he had a shot. But then I thought that in order to be president, you really do have to have some arrogance. You have to believe that you can do something different and better than everyone else.

And maybe he can. We'll see how he does in the primaries.

The question is will we voters have the guts to let him try, or will we let the big corporations hand us two more useless pro-business hand-puppet candidates to pick from, again.

 

[Kay]

I spent some time yesterday researching Obama, and while there could be stuff I missed, I was rather impressed by what I read. Sure, he's young politically, but I consider that an asset, not a hindrance.

http://www.barackobama.com/video/about.php

 

[diemjay]

I wonder if they'll end up on the same ticket? ... But with who on top?

That's what I'm wondering.

 

[greatcalgarian]

can you tell me what a neo con is?

Neoconservatism is a political movement, mainly in the United States, which is generally held to have emerged in the 1960s, coalesced in the 1970s, and has had a significant presence in the administration of George W. Bush.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo_con

A neo-conservative (abbreviated as neo-con or neocon) is part of a U.S. based political movement rooted in liberal Cold War anticommunism and a backlash to the social liberation movements of the 1960s and 1970s. These liberals drifted toward conservatism: thus they are new (neo) conservatives. They favor an aggressive unilateral U.S. foreign policy. They generally believe that elites protect democracy from mob rule. Sometimes the spelling is "neoconservative."

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Neo-conservative

 

[greatcalgarian]

Neo con also typically think like Wolfowitz:

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]The "Wolfowitz Doctrine" is named for the No. 2 man at the Defense Department and key Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld confidant, Paul Wolfowitz, former director of the Johns Hopkins School for Advanced International Studies, known for his support of NATO expansion and the attack on Serbia.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]As the New York Times explained it, the Wolfowitz Doctrine argues that America's political and military mission should be to "ensure that no rival superpower is allowed to emerge. With its focus on this concept of benevolent domination by one power, the Pentagon document articulates the clearest rejection to date of collective internationalism." Its core thesis, described by Ben Wattenberg in the April 12, Washington Times, is "to guard against the emergence of hostile regional superpowers, for example, Iraq or China. America is No. 1. We stand for something decent and important. That's good for us and good for the world. That's the way we want to keep it."[/FONT]
http://www.antiwar.com/rep/utley4.html​

 

[greatcalgarian]

The power of nightmare documentary explain in vivid simple way what is neo con:

See thread by GeneCosta:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44633

The Power of Nightmares Episode 1 Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-_iuvrTqw8

The Power of Nightmares Episode 1 Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2RSHhXjSj4

The Power of Nightmares Episode 1 Part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiRDJCSN7pQ

The Power of Nightmares Episode 1 Part 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rCEcsOdSVs

The Power of Nightmares Episode 1 Part 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBMbtHXQQm8

 

[Comprehend]

The power of nightmare documentary explain in vivid simple way what is neo con:

See thread by GeneCosta:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44633

The Power of Nightmares Episode 1 Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-_iuvrTqw8

The Power of Nightmares Episode 1 Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2RSHhXjSj4

The Power of Nightmares Episode 1 Part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiRDJCSN7pQ

The Power of Nightmares Episode 1 Part 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rCEcsOdSVs

The Power of Nightmares Episode 1 Part 6
[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBMbtHXQQm8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBMbtHXQQm8[/URL]

I wanted to know what you think it is...

 

[Comprehend]

Neoconservatism is a political movement, mainly in the United States, which is generally held to have emerged in the 1960s, coalesced in the 1970s, and has had a significant presence in the administration of George W. Bush.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo_con

A neo-conservative (abbreviated as neo-con or neocon) is part of a U.S. based political movement rooted in liberal Cold War anticommunism and a backlash to the social liberation movements of the 1960s and 1970s. These liberals drifted toward conservatism: thus they are new (neo) conservatives. They favor an aggressive unilateral U.S. foreign policy. They generally believe that elites protect democracy from mob rule. Sometimes the spelling is "neoconservative."

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Neo-conservative

sorry, didn't see this on the previous page. well, you are getting warm. Familiarize yourself with the political writings of Leo Strauss of the University of Chicago. Particularly his beliefs on the proper interpretation of Thrasymachus' argument in the Republic that defines justice as the advantage of the stronger and his belief that Plato was "just joking" when he listed the order in which properly organized society would devolve from the Kalipollis with democracy only one step above tyrrany. very interesting but in the end, it actually does lead to a foreign policy like what you have listed above. Much more of an Allan Dulles approach rather than George Kennen if you ask me.

 

[Comprehend]

I can't help but think of BILLClinton when you talk like that.

Wasn't that BILL'S problem too?

edit: ok seriously though. I would vote for Obama. The Clintons have already sold enough of our technology to China. Hillary is never going to survive Whitewater, Vince Foster etc being pounded by fellow democrats in the primary. Can you imagine her answer on live TV to this question:

Moderator: "Senator Clinton, how do you explain the mountain of files the feds were looking for in the Whitewater scandal being found in your office as well as the best witness in the case, Vince Foster being found dead?"

Sen. Clinton: "Mr. Brokaw, thank you for that question. It reminds me of something my grandfather used to say when I was just a little girl. He used to take me fishing on a canoe that he hand crafted with tools made by Union labor, and pulled by his American car. Yes, the one he bought after working for years in a coal mine while my grandmother worked as a gleaner in the fields. Yes, my good grandmother used to work side by side with african americans in the cotton fields of upstate Illinois where I grew up as a cubs NO NO a yankee fan, yes, I have always been a yankee fan. So in conclusion, you can see that it does in fact take a village to uh distract you all from the question that was asked. Thank you Mr. Jennings."

Moderator: "uh, I am Mr. Brokaw, Peter Jennings died last year, remember?"

Clinton: *wipes brow, eyebrow wipes off too* "yes, yes of c-c-course m-mr. Brewhah."

no reaction from anybody to this? sheesh, I thought I was pretty funny myself....

 

[CaptainXeroid]

...Moderator: "Senator Clinton, how do you explain the mountain of files the feds were looking for in the Whitewater scandal being found in your office as well as the best witness in the case, Vince Foster being found dead?"...

Excellent question, and understanding that others have served time in federal prison for illegally possessing FBI files while Hilary and Slick Willie got off scot free, for this and a host of other reasons, given a choice between Hilary and Barrack, I would pick Obama. AFAIK, he isn't a criminal.

Realistically, if either is the Democratic nominee, I will probably vote Republican.

 

[PureX]

Excellent question, and understanding that others have served time in federal prison for illegally possessing FBI files while Hilary and Slick Willie got off scot free, for this and a host of other reasons, given a choice between Hilary and Barrack, I would pick Obama. AFAIK, he isn't a criminal.

Realistically, if either is the Democratic nominee, I will probably vote Republican.

That horse is dead, rotted away, and turned to dust. The "Whitewater Witch Hunt" isn't going to gain anyone any leverage, anymore. The only people who are still sputtering about Whitewater or Bill Clinton's indescretions are people who would never have voted for either of them, anyway. And trying to bring all that crap up again will just drive moderate voters away from whoever tries it.

Hillary has nothing to fear from Whitewater or from Bill's misbehavior. In fact, I suspect that an attempt at trying to smear her with these would actually work in her favor. Most of the American public is sick to death of that sort of petty partisan muck-raking. They desperately want to look ahead to SOLUTIONS TO OUR REAL PROBLEMS like the huge disparity between rich and poor, job loss and stagnent wages, health care, the outrageous thievery going on in Congress, and IRAQ.

 

[lilithu]

That horse is dead, rotted away, and turned to dust. The "Whitewater Witch Hunt" isn't going to gain anyone any leverage, anymore. The only people who are still sputtering about Whitewater or Bill Clinton's indescretions are people who would never have voted for either of them, anyway. And trying to bring all that crap up again will just drive moderate voters away from whoever tries it.

Hillary has nothing to fear from Whitewater or from Bill's misbehavior. In fact, I suspect that an attempt at trying to smear her with these would actually work in her favor. Most of the American public is sick to death of that sort of petty partisan muck-raking. They desperately want to look ahead to SOLUTIONS TO OUR REAL PROBLEMS like the huge disparity between rich and poor, job loss and stagnent wages, health care, the outrageous thievery going on in Congress, and IRAQ.

I agree. sheesh. Here's how the "debate" would go:

"Whitewater."

"Haliburton."

"Monicagate."

"Weapons of Mass Destruction."

"Massive Deficit."

"Katrina...

 

[lilithu]

Of course there is one way to absolutely guarantee a republican victory:

another terrorist attack on U.S. soil.

If one happens right before the '08 election I am going to become another GreatCalgarian.

 

[Comprehend]

That horse is dead, rotted away, and turned to dust. The "Whitewater Witch Hunt" isn't going to gain anyone any leverage, anymore. The only people who are still sputtering about Whitewater or Bill Clinton's indescretions are people who would never have voted for either of them, anyway. And trying to bring all that crap up again will just drive moderate voters away from whoever tries it.

Hillary has nothing to fear from Whitewater or from Bill's misbehavior. In fact, I suspect that an attempt at trying to smear her with these would actually work in her favor. Most of the American public is sick to death of that sort of petty partisan muck-raking. They desperately want to look ahead to SOLUTIONS TO OUR REAL PROBLEMS like the huge disparity between rich and poor, job loss and stagnent wages, health care, the outrageous thievery going on in Congress, and IRAQ.

want to bet?

It isn't a smear. The files were found in her office. and Vince Foster did wind up DEAD. Uncomfortable truth's like these are what made Al Gore lose his home state of Tennessee in 2000 (thus making Florida matter) and John Kerry lose in 2004.

This petty partisan muck-racking is going to happen in the DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY if anyone is close to her. That is where I think she is going to get beat up.

 

[Radio Frequency X]

They desperately want to look ahead to SOLUTIONS TO OUR REAL PROBLEMS like the huge disparity between rich and poor, job loss and stagnent wages, health care, the outrageous thievery going on in Congress, and IRAQ.

Democrats have tended to lose on those issues (minus the congressional corruption & Iraq), leading me to believe that this isn't what the American people are worried about. John Edwards' insulting Two America's rhetoric really hurt him in the South, where people are still divided more by race than by class. Class Warfare rhetoric only works in Blue States, where the taxes are so high that only rich white liberals can make a good living. This is, of course, where their liberal guilt comes into play.