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Clearing up Mormonism

jonny

Well-Known Member
joeboonda said:
You dont like the word cult, ok, I see, sorry, lol. That's just what mainline christian denominations call Mormonism, I suppose because they add to the Bible, and don't consider Jesus as God (at least in the same way we do), and have many other beliefs that differ from basic Bible-only doctrines. You do some quite different things than say the mainline denominations, that I dont call a cult. But if I offended you, I am sorry, wasn't thinking, had to run the store, will try to be more sensitive, i apologize. PEACE!
The reason "Christians" call Mormons a cult is because they want to belittle the faith of a group of people they don't agree with. It's a way of saying "we're better than you." I think it is as childish and as Christlike as calling someone a nerd on the playground.

If you are open minded and speak with members of the Church about what we believe, I think you'll find that there are a lot of similarities. If you focus on the differences, you'll find those also. The best way to learn about a religion and its members is to look at the big picture.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
dorsk,

I apologize about my assertion (about Smith's wife), it is one of those things that I can't remember where I heard it, and I got the details wrong.
You may consider this a "detail." I'd say it's more on the order of a fairly "significant blunder." We all get things wrong from time to time, but in my opinion, your approach is fairly frequently a "ready-fire-aim" one. It would have been one thing to get Joseph's younger brother, for instance, mixed up with his older brother. But getting someone's most staunch ally mixed up with his enemy implies a serious lack of concern for accuracy.

Correct me (again) if I am wrong, but wasn't Smith supposedly warned by God (or an angel) that Satan had altered the manuscript? Thus his was his reason for not translating this part again?
Okay, you're wrong. Joseph was told not to retranslate the stolen 116 pages. No mention was ever made of Satan having altered the manuscript.

For the sake of argument: I beseech DeepShadow and Katzpuh to consider a hypothetical. Is it possible that Smith refused to translate the book of Lehi again, because he knew he would not be able to do it exactly the same way, and simply used the tampering as a reason not to?
Is it possible? Of course it's possible. Anything's possible. I definitely don't believe it was probable.

On the other hand, Smith's ability to take up a story right where he'd left off is hardly evidence of divine translation. As I said, his imagination and storytelling skills could account for that.
Again, your over-simplification shows me how little thought you've given to your statement. I'm sure you've written a term paper or two in your lifetime. Think back to a fairly complex one that you wrote over a period of several days. Now are you telling me that when you returned to the project after an interruption (let's say dinner, a phone call, time spent working on another assignment, or even after a night's sleep) you never bothered to read the last sentence you'd written before you left, to make sure that the next one tied in logically? If you were to write a 520-page book over a period of three months, do you honestly think you could never once go back to review the last paragraph you finished up with the day before, before starting in to work again? I can't even imagine a novelist doing that!

I merely wished to drop any argument that is essentially: My opinion vs. Your opinion. With my second post, I intended to begin a genuine debate.
If that's truly what you want to do, then why ask hypothetical opinion questions, which you are continuing to do?

You're right. I should have said "Jews from Egypt", right? I apoligize for hyperbolizing my point, but it IS an outrageous claim, imho.
No, you shouldn't. They weren't from Egypt. They were from Jerusalem. (I know... it's another one of those things that you can't remember where you heard it, and you got the details wrong.)

Of course, this whole "National Enquirer" stuff is really off point, anyway.
If you only knew how far-fetched some of the material you've come up with really is, you'd recognize what an accurate analogy this really is. You directed me to a website run by Sandra Tanner. I'm sure you've probably never heard of her. Mrs. Tanner and her husband, Jerold, are what could be accurately described as "career anti-Mormons." While she would undoubtedly like her readers to believe that she is simply providing an objective look at the doctrines and history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I can assure you that nothing could possibly be further from the truth.

A non-Mormon scholar (Lawrence Foster, associate professor of American history at the Georgia Institute of Technology) who has spent many years on intensive work on Mormonism and its history says of the Tanners:

"The Tanners have repeatedly assumed a holier-than-thou stance, refusing to be fair in applying the same debate standard of absolute rectitude which they demand of Mormonism to their own actions, writing, and beliefs.... [They] seem to be playing a skillful shell game in which the premises for judgment are conveniently shifted so that the conclusion is always the same--negative."

A huge amount of what the Tanners write is every bit as poorly researched and sensationalized as what you'd expect to find in the National Enquirer. Perhaps that's why I get so irritated with people who accept their work as legitmate scholarship.

This wasn't meant to offend you, it was straight from the website I showed you, which is largely from this book By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus(which is free online). The book seems to me to be objective, even citing the "Mormon perspective" on many occasions. If you read my post and what I was referencing, my comments were well within reason. Once again, it was not intended to offend.
I can appreciate why you might think this book to be objective. That was obviously the author's intent. Rather than bore you with my own opinion on the matter, I hope you don't mind if I direct you to another website on which John Gee critiques the book:

John Gee, incidentally, has his Ph.D. in Egyptology from Yale University. He is an Assistant Research Professor of Egyptology at the Institute for the Study and Preservation of Ancient Religious Texts, where he is a series editor for Studies in the Book of Abraham and a member of the editorial board of the Eastern Christian Texts series. He is also on the board of directors for the Aziz S. Atiya Fund for Coptic Studies.

http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?id=92&table=review

Once again Katzpur, I don't know what I did to warrant this torrential attack on my character and communication skills. I offer an olive branch of civility, but no apoligies for discussing the facts.
A torrential attack on your character? You need to develop a tougher skin, dorsk. Believe me, if I ever do stoop to that level, you'll know it!

I didn't like your reference to "Religious Pornography" nor your remark about "God sitting on His throne... aroused." I found them tasteless, frankly. And as to your communication skills, well, I think I've explained in this post why I'm unimpressed. I don't believe I attacked your character per se, in any way at all. Sorry you took it that way.

Kathryn
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
Katzpur said:
Do you? Would you like to be told that you belong to a cult?

No, that's not what mainstream Christian denominations call Mormonism. Some may (yours undoubtedly does), but the vast majority of them recognize us as a Christian denomination, some of whose beliefs differ from theirs. In case you hadn't noticed, we are specifically listed as a Christian denomination on this particular forum.


We've added nothing to the Bible. God has, and I don't know that any of us are in a position to tell Him that He's out of line in doing so.

We don't accept the 4th and 5th century creeds, if that's what you mean. But we believe every word the Bible has to say about Jesus Christ -- including the fact that He is "God."

Yes, we do. But the Bible does not claim to be either inerrant or complete. You've just made that assumption on your own.

Thank you for the apology. I appreciate it.

Kathryn
If I were in a cult, I would want someone to tell me. I've been to many mainline churches, and yes they do call you a cult. YOU assume God added to the Bible. And at the end of the Bible it tell us not to add to it. Mainline denominations, that use the BIble as the only authority, call anyone else that adds to it a cult, that includes Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, and anyone who claims to be a modern day prophet or messiah. I think if you read the Bible alone, you will find much disagreement with it and your 'other' books. Good luck
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
jonny said:
The reason "Christians" call Mormons a cult is because they want to belittle the faith of a group of people they don't agree with. It's a way of saying "we're better than you." I think it is as childish and as Christlike as calling someone a nerd on the playground.

If you are open minded and speak with members of the Church about what we believe, I think you'll find that there are a lot of similarities. If you focus on the differences, you'll find those also. The best way to learn about a religion and its members is to look at the big picture.
I have studied Mormonism and want no part of it, thanks.
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
OK, here is some stuff I do know about Mormonism:

Source of Authority
Mormonism
Believes in continuing revelation, not believing the canon of Scripture was closed when the bible was completed. Views the Mormon presidents as prophets in the same sense as Abraham, Moses, Peter, etc.
Biblical Christianity
Believes the Bible alone is final authority. Believes the canon of Scripture was closed when the 66 books of the Bible were completed. Believes no one today is like the Old Testament prophets who received direct revelation from God.

God
Mormonism
Teaches he was once a man who, through self-effort, became God. Teaches that good Mormons become Gods.
Biblical Christianity
Believes God has existed in eternity past, although the second Person of the Trinity became incarnate to die for the sins of mankind. Teaches that man can never become God.

Christ
Mormonism
Denies His deity by teaching that he was simply a spirit being before coming to earth. Denies the virgin birth by claiming Jesus was conceived when Adam-God had sexual relations with Mary. Claims that Jesus was a polygamist.
Biblical Christianity
Believes that Jesus Christ is God, the second Person of the Trinity. Believes that Jesus was supernaturally conceived by Mary through the Holy Spirit. Maintains Jesus was never married.

Salvation
Mormonism
Teaches salvation is earned by works in addition to faith. Believes that you cannot be saved unless you are baptized with water for the remission of sins. Practices baptizing for the dead so that those who have believed after death can become Mormons.
Biblical Christianity
Teaches that salvation is granted only by grace through faith alone in the Lord Jesus Christ. Teaches baptism as a public witness of salvation, not a requirement to be saved, Does not believe there is another chance for salvation after death.

Heaven and Hell
Mormonism
Believes in three levels of heaven; Celestial, where good Mormons enter and achieve godhood; Terrestrial, where those enter who are good people who do not comply with teachings of Mormonism; and Telestial, where those enter who have lived unclean earthly lives. Claims that the vast majority of mankind will be saved--believing in a virtually universal salvation.
Biblical Christianity
Believes hell is the future place of punishment for those who reject salvation through Christ. Although there may be different degrees of punishment, all will be punished for rejecting Christ. Claims salvation only for those who trust in Christ; all who reject Him go to an eternal hell.

These then are our main doctrinal differences. There are many other things Mormons do that I do not agree with. But the way that your 'new revelation' contradicts the BIble is my main beef. Now we are not gonna change each others minds, but I just wanted to clarify some of the differences. PEACE!
 

jonny

Well-Known Member
joeboonda said:
These then are our main doctrinal differences. There are many other things Mormons do that I do not agree with. But the way that your 'new revelation' contradicts the BIble is my main beef. Now we are not gonna change each others minds, but I just wanted to clarify some of the differences. PEACE!
Thanks for the clarification. :) As I have already stated, if you focus on the differences, you will find differences. I like to focus on the similarities.

I believe in Jesus Christ. That he is my Savior and Redeemer and that salvation can only come through Him and His sacrifice. Do you disagree with this statement?
 

dorsk188

One-Eyed in Blindsville
Katzpur said:
I didn't like your reference to "Religious Pornography" nor your remark about "God sitting on His throne... aroused." I found them tasteless, frankly.
If you'd read the link, you would have found that "Religious Pornography" was a heading in tha article itself. It was not MY reference. The remark of an aroused God was paraphrase of the contents of that section. As far as developing thick skin, I would suggest you do the same.

At any rate: a friend of mine that frequents the RF has brought up some points about the inaccuracies of some of my posts (the Joseph Smith wife story, as well as a few points I failed to research thoroughly) and has advised that I stop posting on this thread for several reasons. My earlier inaccuracies could be used to dismiss any claims I make in the future. It seems that Katzpur and I spend more time bickering than discussing the facts (as I love to argue, I tend to indulge those diversions including those hypotheticals and hyperbolies).

I may lurk for a while, but don't intend to post in this thread again. I'll leave you with a quote from Al Gore that I turn to whenever I feel lost and alone...

"I have ridden the great moon worm!"
"Peace out, y'all!"
--Al Gore
 

Ronald

Well-Known Member
3500 Christian Cults and all of them fighting about who they can keep out of heaven!

All of you think about this Jesus was a Jew, born of a woman, a Jewish woman, he attended Temple services, kept the comandments, died and was resurrected, still a Jew, will come again as a Jew.
He said; Joh 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Joh 5:24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

Folks, stop hindering other folks who want to, just be saved.

Most called Christian, believe they have an immortal soul, now who is deceiving who?

LDS believes in Jesus Christ, by what other name must one be saved?

Mt 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Whoever among you is perfect, - - - - cast the first stone. LOL
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
jonny said:
Thanks for the clarification. :) As I have already stated, if you focus on the differences, you will find differences. I like to focus on the similarities.

I believe in Jesus Christ. That he is my Savior and Redeemer and that salvation can only come through Him and His sacrifice. Do you disagree with this statement?
Correct, salvation comes only through Him and His sacrifice, however many folks, including the Mormons, and some mainline denominations try to add sacraments, works, or say it comes through the church. For example catholicism although now embracing protestants as brothers, still have in their creed, that salvation comes not only through Christ, but throught the catholic church.

But I agree with your above statement, thanks.

Let me ask, The Bible warns of keeping endless genealogies, so what is up with the big data bank of ancestors you all keep? And it says not to be yoked with non-believers, yet you have occultic, masonic symbols on the inside of the women's prayer/worship dress thingy.(been awhile, sry.) So, just what is up with that, and I am just curious.
 

huajiro

Well-Known Member
angelmoroni said:
Lets talk mormonism
Why do Mormons have to give so much time and money? Why is that important?
Why do most of their churches cost more than what some small countries produce in a year?
 

jonny

Well-Known Member
joeboonda said:
The Bible warns of keeping endless genealogies
Could I get a reference on this? It seems that if there were a warning about keeping genealogy it would be a contradiction to the contents of the Bible, as a significant portion of the Bible contains the genealogy of the prophets.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
joeboonda said:
If I were in a cult, I would want someone to tell me. I've been to many mainline churches, and yes they do call you a cult.
I see. So now I'm supposed to thank you for calling me names?

YOU assume God added to the Bible. And at the end of the Bible it tell us not to add to it.
No it doesn't. If you're talking about Revelation, it says that no one is to add to "this book." If you think "this book" refers to the Bible, you've got some explaining to do. The Bible didn't even exist when John recorded Revelation. "This book" was Revelation. God has never said He's through talking to us, joeboonda, and you can't give me one instance of where the Bible says He has.

Mainline denominations, that use the BIble as the only authority, call anyone else that adds to it a cult, that includes Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, and anyone who claims to be a modern day prophet or messiah.
I guess that Catholicism is a cult, too, then. Much of Catholic doctrine is based upon tradition. And since Catholics account for roughly half of the world's Christians, they must comprise the world's largest cult.

I think if you read the Bible alone, you will find much disagreement with it and your 'other' books. Good luck
Well, if I were to read the Bible alone, I could hardly begin to compare our additional scriptures to it, now could I?
 

Aqualung

Tasty
joeboonda said:
If I were in a cult, I would want someone to tell me. I've been to many mainline churches, and yes they do call you a cult. YOU assume God added to the Bible. And at the end of the Bible it tell us not to add to it. Mainline denominations, that use the BIble as the only authority, call anyone else that adds to it a cult, that includes Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, and anyone who claims to be a modern day prophet or messiah. I think if you read the Bible alone, you will find much disagreement with it and your 'other' books. Good luck
We don't assume God added to the Bible. We assume men took away from the Bible. Have you ever read the Bible? Then surely you have come across all the references to scriptural works that haven't been found. Even the Bible admits that it is not complete. Obviously these works were important enough for whoever it was to mention them. The Bible is nowhere near complete, and to claim it is just shows a lack of knowledge about the subject.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
joeboonda said:
OK, here is some stuff I do know about Mormonism:

Source of Authority
Mormonism
Believes in continuing revelation, not believing the canon of Scripture was closed when the bible was completed. Views the Mormon presidents as prophets in the same sense as Abraham, Moses, Peter, etc.
Biblical Christianity
Believes the Bible alone is final authority. Believes the canon of Scripture was closed when the 66 books of the Bible were completed. Believes no one today is like the Old Testament prophets who received direct revelation from God.

God
Mormonism
Teaches he was once a man who, through self-effort, became God. Teaches that good Mormons become Gods.
Biblical Christianity
Believes God has existed in eternity past, although the second Person of the Trinity became incarnate to die for the sins of mankind. Teaches that man can never become God.

Christ
Mormonism
Denies His deity by teaching that he was simply a spirit being before coming to earth. Denies the virgin birth by claiming Jesus was conceived when Adam-God had sexual relations with Mary. Claims that Jesus was a polygamist.
Biblical Christianity
Believes that Jesus Christ is God, the second Person of the Trinity. Believes that Jesus was supernaturally conceived by Mary through the Holy Spirit. Maintains Jesus was never married.

Salvation
Mormonism
Teaches salvation is earned by works in addition to faith. Believes that you cannot be saved unless you are baptized with water for the remission of sins. Practices baptizing for the dead so that those who have believed after death can become Mormons.
Biblical Christianity
Teaches that salvation is granted only by grace through faith alone in the Lord Jesus Christ. Teaches baptism as a public witness of salvation, not a requirement to be saved, Does not believe there is another chance for salvation after death.

Heaven and Hell
Mormonism
Believes in three levels of heaven; Celestial, where good Mormons enter and achieve godhood; Terrestrial, where those enter who are good people who do not comply with teachings of Mormonism; and Telestial, where those enter who have lived unclean earthly lives. Claims that the vast majority of mankind will be saved--believing in a virtually universal salvation.
Biblical Christianity
Believes hell is the future place of punishment for those who reject salvation through Christ. Although there may be different degrees of punishment, all will be punished for rejecting Christ. Claims salvation only for those who trust in Christ; all who reject Him go to an eternal hell.

These then are our main doctrinal differences. There are many other things Mormons do that I do not agree with. But the way that your 'new revelation' contradicts the BIble is my main beef. Now we are not gonna change each others minds, but I just wanted to clarify some of the differences. PEACE!
joeboonda,

Stop trying to tell people what Mormons believe! You don't know what Mormons believe. You only know what you think Mormons believe. And keep your questions, if you have any, to one per post. Many of your statements about our beliefs are outright lies. Others of them are obvious distortions of what we really believe. I believe I was quite clear in my post #82 on this thread. Reread it if you've forgotten what I said.

Kathryn
 

jonny

Well-Known Member
huajiro said:
Why do Mormons have to give so much time and money? Why is that important? Why do most of their churches cost more than what some small countries produce in a year?
Mormons give 10% of their income to the church as a tithing. Many churches follow this same principle, although I don't know the exact amounts that people pay. I have done this my entire life and don't really see it as a lot of money.

We also give time to our church because we have a lay ministry. None of the local leaders are paid. For example, my father is a bishop, the leader of a local congregation (ward). He works at his normal job during the week, and a few nights a week and the weekend are spent serving as Bishop. This is a temporary assignment (usually five years). Our family has been blessed immensely during the time that my father has served as a Bishop and I see it as a wonderful opportunity to serve the Lord.

As for the last question, I don't know how much it costs to build a church. Because all of the church tithing funds are combined in a central location, the church is able to use its money very efficiently to build churches. I would assume that most of the tithing money comes from members in the United States, but that most of it is spent outside the United States. The church also does a lot of charity work. You can find information on the churches charities at http://www.providentliving.org/.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
joeboonda said:
Let me ask, The Bible warns of keeping endless genealogies, so what is up with the big data bank of ancestors you all keep?
I'll answer this tonight (I'm at work now) when I have some available resource material.

And it says not to be yoked with non-believers, yet you have occultic, masonic symbols on the inside of the women's prayer/worship dress thingy.(been awhile, sry.) So, just what is up with that, and I am just curious.
I'm sorry, I don't know what a "women's prayer/worship dress thingy" is. Could you possibly rephrase that?

By the way, in case you don't know, many Masons are Christians. Your statement applies that they're not.

Kathryn
 

jonny

Well-Known Member
joeboonda said:
YOU assume God added to the Bible. And at the end of the Bible it tell us not to add to it.
I have always found this argument fascinating. The bible was not the bible when its books were written. The books were brought together and cannonized much later. If you want to use this argument, you will have to consider that every book added to the book of Revelation is an addition to the bible.

Anyway, this morning while I was studying my scriptures, I read this and it reminded me of these arguments.

2 Nephi 29: 8 - "Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also.

9 And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own pleasure. And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever."

I will never understand why the thought that God would actually reveal his gospel to people outside of the middle east makes so many Christians so angry. If God loves everyone, I believe that he would want to tell as many people as possible that they can be saved through the sacrifice of Christ.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ isn't a secret club, meant only for the lucky ones who were born at the right time in the right place. The gospel is for everyone who wants to accept Christ into their hearts.

I'm glad you have accepted Christ. I have also. Please don't question my faith in Christ or his ability to save me. I already have a judge and, seeing as he is perfect, I prefer to await His judgement.
 

Aqualung

Tasty
joeboonda said:
OK, here is some stuff I do know about Mormonism:

Source of Authority
Mormonism
Believes in continuing revelation, not believing the canon of Scripture was closed when the bible was completed. Views the Mormon presidents as prophets in the same sense as Abraham, Moses, Peter, etc.
Biblical Christianity
Believes the Bible alone is final authority. Believes the canon of Scripture was closed when the 66 books of the Bible were completed. Believes no one today is like the Old Testament prophets who received direct revelation from God.
Isn't the entire Bible based in the fact that God does give revelation to people? Why would he stop now, especially without telling anybody that he was going to stop?

joeboonda said:
God
Mormonism
Teaches he was once a man who, through self-effort, became God. Teaches that good Mormons become Gods.
Biblical Christianity
Believes God has existed in eternity past, although the second Person of the Trinity became incarnate to die for the sins of mankind. Teaches that man can never become God.
If we can't become gods, how are we to be "joint heirs with Christ."(Rom 8:17 Why does he continually tell us "be ye therefore perfect, even as your father"(Matt 5:48) if there is no future for us after death? What are we striving for? Does it make God any less perfect if we can become like him? Does it some how devalue all that he has done for us? And it that vein, does him having been a man somehow make him any less perfect? or any less our God? No. He is still our one and only God, whether he was a man first, or whether we may become gods, too. It doesn't devalue him at all. He has been our God since the beginning of time. He has always been our God and always will be. That doesn't change.

Christ
Mormonism
Denies His deity by teaching that he was simply a spirit being before coming to earth. Denies the virgin birth by claiming Jesus was conceived when Adam-God had sexual relations with Mary. Claims that Jesus was a polygamist.
Biblical Christianity
Believes that Jesus Christ is God, the second Person of the Trinity. Believes that Jesus was supernaturally conceived by Mary through the Holy Spirit. Maintains Jesus was never married.
How can you think Jesus is God. He continually prayed to his Father in heaven. How could he be God? That has always been one of the wierdest docrinal things I have ever heard. And let me tell you this. I only recently converted to Momonism. I grew up in the Lutheran, Baptist, JW, and Quaker church, and the Quaker church was the only one that taught that Jesus was God. If you beleive that Jesus was once a spirit, does that suddenly make all his miracles, or all his teachings, or all his modeling of behaviour, suddenly dissapear, or make it less than what it was, or in any way devalue it? No. How could it?
When you say "Adam-God" is that because you think that we think Adam is God? If so, that is one of the most rediculous things I have ever heard. We beleive no such thing.
I don't beleive that came down and physically had sex with Mary. All of the mormons I have discussed this with don't beleive it either. You're misinterpreting things, again.

Salvation
Mormonism
Teaches salvation is earned by works in addition to faith. Believes that you cannot be saved unless you are baptized with water for the remission of sins. Practices baptizing for the dead so that those who have believed after death can become Mormons.
Biblical Christianity
Teaches that salvation is granted only by grace through faith alone in the Lord Jesus Christ. Teaches baptism as a public witness of salvation, not a requirement to be saved, Does not believe there is another chance for salvation after death.
"faith without works is dead" Why do you think that is even in the Bible if it's not true?
Even Jesus was baptized to "fulfill all righteousness." don't you think it's rather presumptuous of us to beleive that we don't need to be baptized, if even this perfect man needed to be baptized? And then why did Jesus always say "if you beleive and and are baptized" you would be saved? Why did he tell Nicademous "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." Was he lying, yanking his chain, messing with his mind? If you don't think baptism is necessary, you need to reread the Bible.
1 Cor 15:29 speaks of baptism for the dead. Was Paul just making things up?

=joeboonda]Heaven and Hell
Mormonism
Believes in three levels of heaven; Celestial, where good Mormons enter and achieve godhood; Terrestrial, where those enter who are good people who do not comply with teachings of Mormonism; and Telestial, where those enter who have lived unclean earthly lives. Claims that the vast majority of mankind will be saved--believing in a virtually universal salvation.
Biblical Christianity
Believes hell is the future place of punishment for those who reject salvation through Christ. Although there may be different degrees of punishment, all will be punished for rejecting Christ. Claims salvation only for those who trust in Christ; all who reject Him go to an eternal hell.
John 14:2 "in my Father's house are many mansions."
2 Cor 12:2 "such an one caught up to the third heaven"
1 Cor 15:40-ish is about the glories of the different heavens
People who actually reject Christ will certainly go to hell. But the majority of people, even now, accept him and his principles, even if they don't know who they are accepting. through the nudgings of the holy spirit, which they may or may not know is the holy spirit, they are choosing to live pretty close to what God wants from us. They will be saved. Just not in the highest degree possible.

These then are our main doctrinal differences. There are many other things Mormons do that I do not agree with. But the way that your 'new revelation' contradicts the BIble is my main beef. Now we are not gonna change each others minds, but I just wanted to clarify some of the differences. PEACE!
Our revelations don't contradict the Bible.
 

Aqualung

Tasty
huajiro said:
Why do Mormons have to give so much time and money? Why is that important?
Well, what do you mean by "so much time and money?" Do you mean that we also think about God outside of a few hours at church on Suday? Since God is and should be the most important thing in our lives, why is it seen as bad that we spend a lot of time doing "churchy" things?
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
jonny said:
Could I get a reference on this? It seems that if there were a warning about keeping genealogy it would be a contradiction to the contents of the Bible, as a significant portion of the Bible contains the genealogy of the prophets.
I Timothy 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith; so do.

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
 
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