Christians:Is The Trinity Truly Biblical(A Separate Thread)

[Dirty Penguin]

But how would you explain 1 John 5:7-8?

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."

I'm definitely not arguing in favor of the Trinity, but this verse does clearly imply that there are three separate entities that are, in some way, "one." I think the question is, "How are they one?"

32 Christian scholars of the RSV who were backed by 50 cooperating denominations said that verse does not appear in the earliest of manuscripts and have viewed it as an interpolation. I've noticed that people here rarely quote that verse....Maybe it's due to that fact.

 

[Lucian]

32 Christian scholars of the RSV who were backed by 50 cooperating denominations said that verse does not appear in the earliest of manuscripts and have viewed it as an interpolation. I've noticed that people here rarely quote that verse....Maybe it's due to that fact.

I don't think any Christian in my country even knows about that verse 7 unless they have read some English translations. It's called "Johannine Comma", and Sir Isaac Newton wrote a dissertation about it.

 

[uss_bigd]

But how would you explain 1 John 5:7-8?

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."

I'm definitely not arguing in favor of the Trinity, but this verse does clearly imply that there are three separate entities that are, in some way, "one." I think the question is, "How are they one?"

1 jn 5:7-8 was translated incorrectly from the original greek translation

the ASV states this, and this is the more accurate translation

1 John 5:7-8 (ASV)

7 And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.

 

[Katzpur]

1 jn 5:7-8 was translated incorrectly from the original greek translation

I thought the Bible was supposed to be perfect, uss_bigd.

 

[uss_bigd]

I thought the Bible was supposed to be perfect, uss_bigd.

tsk tsk tsk!

get over Kats, that debate is over, from what i know we should be in the same side in this thread. unless you want to abandon your beliefs just to disagree with me.


The bible is perfect,

ISA 34:16

"Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them."

The book of the lord shall not fail, nor will it need her mate.

but that is off topic...

 

[Mister Emu]

Jesus is God:

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Jesus is equal with God:

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, everything else will:

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

God is one:

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:

Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

I think while not explicit in the Bible, the Trinity is a logical conclusion given the data at hand. Whether you agree with it or not, I believe it can be clearly drawn from the Bible.

 

[Katzpur]

tsk tsk tsk!

get over Kats, that debate is over, from what i know we should be in the same side in this thread. unless you want to abandon your beliefs just to disagree with me.

The bible is perfect.

I'm with you in terms of the Trinity, uss_bigd, but you can't, in one breath, point out a verse in the Bible that was translated incorrectly and then, in the next, state that the Bible is perfect. If it was perfect, there would be no translation errors.

Now, back to the doctrine of the Trinity...

 

[uss_bigd]

I'm with you in terms of the Trinity, uss_bigd, but you can't, in one breath, point out a verse in the Bible that was translated incorrectly and then, in the next, state that the Bible is perfect. If it was perfect, there would be no translation errors.

The contents of the bible is perfect, the original manuscripts are perfect. all you have to do is refer to the originals if there are contradictions...

Now, back to the doctrine of the Trinity...

ok....

 

[Katzpur]

The contents of the bible is perfect, the original manuscripts are perfect. all you have to do is refer to the originals if there are contradictions...

Ah, gotcha! And... uh... who has been hiding the originals?

 

[uss_bigd]

Ah, gotcha! And... uh... who has been hiding the originals?

What does it have to do with the contents? specially the verse that states "THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN I"?

FOCUS KASTPUR, FOCUS!

 

[Katzpur]

What does it have to do with the contents?

I was just replying to a statement you made, Marc. If you don't want me to comment on something you've said that is off-topic, don't make any more off-topic posts.

specially the verse that states "THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN I"?

The Father is greater than the Son. I believe that. Are you happy now?

 

[uss_bigd]

I was just replying to a statement you made, Marc. If you don't want me to comment on something you've said that is off-topic, don't make any more off-topic posts.

fair enough

The Father is greater than the Son. I believe that. Are you happy now?

yes ma'm i am ...:yes:

 

[Mister Emu]

No objections to my post?

 

[Scott1]

No objections to my post?

Not by me. .. the COMPLETE teaching @ the Trinity is the only way to interpret all the data.... otherwise you get the "dueling" Bible verse battles fought by the likes of bigd.

That this rule of faith has come down to us from the beginning of the gospel, even before any of the older heretics... will be apparent ... from the lateness of date which marks all heresies."

Tertullian, Against Praxeas, 2 (post A.D. 213).

 

[uss_bigd]

Jesus is equal with God:

Jesus was refering to divinity not status on the hierarchy. " the father is greater than I" said Jesus.

Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, everything else will:

Why are there unqual repercussions for sins against the three entities to CLAIM to be Equal?

you just stressed they are not equal, which contradicts the concept of the trinity as proposed by catholic doctrine.

I think while not explicit in the Bible, the Trinity is a logical conclusion given the data at hand. Whether you agree with it or not, I believe it can be clearly drawn from the Bible.

This is your imagination sir, I am sorry!

 

[Mister Emu]

Jesus was refering to divinity not status on the hierarchy.

Well in my understanding, Divine is as high up in the hierarchy as you can get...

" the father is greater than I" said Jesus

I agree... Philemon 2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:"

you just stressed they are not equal, which contradicts the concept of the trinity as proposed by catholic doctrine.

No, I stressed that they are different/seperate.

This is your imagination sir, I am sorry!

No, it isn't, as I explained in my post. Regardless of you agreeing with it, the Trinity can be taken from the Bible.

 

[Scott1]

No, it isn't, as I explained in my post. Regardless of you agreeing with it, the Trinity can be taken from the Bible.

Sad part is, like with most things, this fellow does not have a clue what the dogma of the Trinity actually is... he just knows "it's wrong!".... gotta pray for em.:shout

 

[sojourner]

The contents of the bible is perfect, the original manuscripts are perfect. all you have to do is refer to the originals if there are contradictions...

Problem is, there are no "originals." What we have is what we have. We don't know what the originals said, because we don't have them. This is why exegesis and a critical approach to what we do have is so important. Reading the Trinity out of the scriptures is a valid interpretation. You don't have to agree with it -- but that interpretation is valid.