Christians:Is The Trinity Truly Biblical(A Separate Thread)

[sojourner]

Apparetly you are the one who needs research.

ROFLH

again focus on the topic, "is the trinity BIBLICAL" you cant argue that it was passed through tradition you know?

Of course it's Biblical. Otherwise, the councils wouldn't have formulated it. It's their finding that is compelling to my argument, so you need to read up on them, if you want to know where I stand.
The word was made flesh. Jesus is "God With Us." Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit to be with us. It's all right there in the Bible. What's the problem?

I can prove that Jesus only speaks spiritually, can you prove that he referred to the flesh???

There's nothing to prove. Since Jesus was fully human, a fully human person spoke to other fully human people with regard to the Father (who, according to religious thought at that time) was assumed to be greater than any human being. That's the way the author presented the pericope.

or is it because you do not have any specifics to provide?

No, it's because your posts are not well-thought out, concisely presented, nor is your argument terse enough to warrant the wasting of my time.

 

[sojourner]

This is proved to be biblically in error when Jesus said " The father is Greater than I

The correct word in this context is, "believed."

 

[ChristineES]

In the 25 years since I have become a Christian, no one has ever explained the Trinity so that I can even understand it. One person compared it to an apple- the seeds, the fruit, and the skin. Another explained it as water-- steam, liquid, ice.
Is there someone here who can explain the Trinity so that I can understand it? It makes no sense to me and never has. I accepted it because I used to not question what doctrine taught me.

 

[Lucian]

In the 25 years since I have become a Christian, no one has ever explained the Trinity so that I can even understand it. One person compared it to an apple- the seeds, the fruit, and the skin. Another explained it as water-- steam, liquid, ice.
Is there someone here who can explain the Trinity so that I can understand it? It makes no sense to me and never has. I accepted it because I used to not question what doctrine taught me.

I know how you feel. Some people in the past have painted it to be like this, like this, and like this. So it's kind of like Siamese twins, except they are closer. Beyond those depictions and how it is written in the Athanasian Creed, it is said to be a mystery.

I personally think that people do not even agree among themselves how it exactly works, but it doesn't come up a lot since not many dare to ask about it too much. I have experienced that if it is inquired about too much, people retreat to the authority of the councils and the traditional language ("three persons, of the same essence, co-equal, co-eternal, omniscient, etc."), which fails to explain it.

Hope that helps!

 

[uss_bigd]

ROFLH

Of course it's Biblical. Otherwise, the councils wouldn't have formulated it. It's their finding that is compelling to my argument, so you need to read up on them, if you want to know where I stand.

Gee, trusting men over scripture. Mr. Sojourner you have repeatedly asked me to read on your "councils formulation of the trinity" I ALREADY TOLD YOU, THEir FORMULATION IS NOT BIBLICAL BECAUSE THEY CLAIM THREE EQUAL BEINGS AND JESUS SAID " THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN I"

Now, the thread specifically stated " is the trinity biblical? you have to biblically prove:

1. Jesus was lying
2. Jesus was just Patronzing the father
3. Jesus was not speaking spritually but was speaking earthly.

John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.


Tsk Tsk! your done!:bow:

There's nothing to prove. Since Jesus was fully human, a fully human person spoke to other fully human people with regard to the Father (who, according to religious thought at that time) was assumed to be greater than any human being. That's the way the author presented the pericope.

No, it's because your posts are not well-thought out, concisely presented, nor is your argument terse enough to warrant the wasting of my time.

Jesus' words are of the spirit. When he said "The father was greater than I" that was in a spiritual context.


My post were not well thought out huh?:slap:. Thats what people will say just to not admit defeat.

 

[Captain Civic]

My post were not well thought out huh?:slap:. Thats what people will say just to not admit defeat.

I don't mind if you think sojourner's wrong, but can you stop acting as if you're speaking down to him?

 

[uss_bigd]

I don't mind if you think sojourner's wrong, but can you stop acting as if you're speaking down to him?

ok...:sorry1:

 

[sojourner]

Gee, trusting men over scripture.

Men wrote scripture, too. At some point, we have to trust people, because that's all we have. God reveals God's Self through the actions of people.

I ALREADY TOLD YOU, THEir FORMULATION IS NOT BIBLICAL BECAUSE THEY CLAIM THREE EQUAL BEINGS AND JESUS SAID " THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN I"

You're shouting again. You're assessment of what is Biblical is faulty, because the interpretation upon which is the assessment is made is not consistent with Biblical theology.

Now, the thread specifically stated " is the trinity biblical? you have to biblically prove:

1. Jesus was lying
2. Jesus was just Patronzing the father
3. Jesus was not speaking spritually but was speaking earthly.

I've already shown Biblical evidence for #3. 1 and 2 are not cogent to the argument, because they are inconsistent with Jesus' character as portrayed in the Bible.

John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.


Tsk Tsk! your done!

This quotation in John has nothing to do with Jesus' statement, "The Father is greater than I," and, therefore, is not germain to the argument.
(Chef's cooking tip #5: If you want to check if the meat is done, you have to do more than look at the exterior.) Dig a little deeper, and you might gain more credibility for your argument.

My post were not well thought out huh?:slap:. Thats what people will say just to not admit defeat.

Hubris is not a Biblical virtue.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Gee, trusting men over scripture. Mr. Sojourner you have repeatedly asked me to read on your "councils formulation of the trinity" I ALREADY TOLD YOU, THEir FORMULATION IS NOT BIBLICAL BECAUSE THEY CLAIM THREE EQUAL BEINGS AND JESUS SAID " THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN I"

Now, the thread specifically stated " is the trinity biblical? you have to biblically prove:

1. Jesus was lying
2. Jesus was just Patronzing the father
3. Jesus was not speaking spritually but was speaking earthly.

John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.


Tsk Tsk! your done!:bow:





Jesus' words are of the spirit. When he said "The father was greater than I" that was in a spiritual context.


My post were not well thought out huh?:slap:. Thats what people will say just to not admit defeat.

You keep doing what you do. Teee...heee...heee.....You're on to something.


John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know YOU, the only true god, and Yeshua the Messiah, whom YOU have sent.

"You are the true god and I am the messiah, whom you have sent.....

In order to be sent there must be a sender......

 

[sojourner]

In order to be sent there must be a sender......

If the Post Office sent a letter to every worker, who would deliver it?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

If the Post Office sent a letter to every worker, who would deliver it?

I suspect you thought really hard before asking this question.....and it still doesn't make any sense. If the PO sent a letter to all of its workers then the Mail carrier for every particular zip code would deliver that message. Postal carries don't normally deliver mail in their own neighborhood.

God (the Post Office) sends his Mail Carrier (Yeshua) to a particular group of people (lost sheep of the house of Israel) with a message. The servant....oops I mean Mail Carrier (Yeshua) reports back to God (The Post Office) letting him know that task that had been given is completed.

The Post Office = God
The Mail Carrier = Yeshua (he who was sent with the message)

If you sent a message to a relative 3000 miles away who would deliver it? Would it be you? No.....It would be the person(s) whom you've put your trust in in order for the message to be delivered safely and in a prompt manner.

Again....in order to be sent there must be a sender.

John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know YOU, the only true god, and Yeshua the Messiah, whom YOU have sent.

"You are the true god and I am the messiah, whom you have sent.....

This has got to be one of the clearest things he ever said.....(You are God, I am the blessed one. You sent me). There's no mystery in the statement. It's plain and simple.

 

[uss_bigd]

You keep doing what you do. Teee...heee...heee.....You're on to something.


John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know YOU, the only true god, and Yeshua the Messiah, whom YOU have sent.

Idols are false gods! that what makes the father the only true God, it was a relative statement. It does not imply Jesus was fully human. Besides jesus was the word of God:

1. John 1:1
   In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
   
2. John 1:14
   The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Jeremiah said

Jeremiah 8:9
The wise will be put to shame; they will be dismayed and trapped. Since they have rejected the word of the LORD, what kind of wisdom do they have?


and John warned:

John 12:48
There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

I suspect you thought really hard before asking this question.....and it still doesn't make any sense. If the PO sent a letter to all of its workers then the Mail carrier for every particular zip code would deliver that message. Postal carries don't normally deliver mail in their own neighborhood.

Revelation 1
God (the Post Office) sends his Mail Carrier (Yeshua) to a particular group of people (lost sheep of the house of Israel) with a message. The servant....oops I mean Mail Carrier (Yeshua) reports back to God (The Post Office) letting him know that task that had been given is completed.

The Post Office = God
The Mail Carrier = Yeshua (he who was sent with the message)

If you sent a message to a relative 3000 miles away who would deliver it? Would it be you? No.....It would be the person(s) whom you've put your trust in in order for the message to be delivered safely and in a prompt manner.

Again....in order to be sent there must be a sender.

John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know YOU, the only true god, and Yeshua the Messiah, whom YOU have sent.

"You are the true god and I am the messiah, whom you have sent.....

This has got to be one of the clearest things he ever said.....(You are God, I am the blessed one. You sent me). There's no mystery in the statement. It's plain and simple.

17When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

When did the First and the Last/ Jesus/ God die?
Once again, the Word had defeated you.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Idols are false gods! that what makes the father the only true God, it was a relative statement. It does not imply Jesus was fully human. Besides jesus was the word of God:

No problem. I don't agree with the interpretation but I can respect your position on it. All is good....

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Once again, the Word had defeated you.

I didn't realize we were in some sort of contest. I guess it comes down to interpretation. Especially when it comes to interpreting plain text.

John 6:38
For I (Yeshua) have come down from heaven, not to do My own (Separate) will, but the will of Him (My god) who sent me”

John 8:42................ I (Yeshua) proceeded and came forth from God; I (Yeshua) came not of my (Yeshua) own accord, but he (God) sent me”

Another KJV renders it like this;

"I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me."


Again, it's all good.........

 

[sojourner]

I suspect you thought really hard before asking this question.....and it still doesn't make any sense. If the PO sent a letter to all of its workers then the Mail carrier for every particular zip code would deliver that message. Postal carries don't normally deliver mail in their own neighborhood.

God (the Post Office) sends his Mail Carrier (Yeshua) to a particular group of people (lost sheep of the house of Israel) with a message. The servant....oops I mean Mail Carrier (Yeshua) reports back to God (The Post Office) letting him know that task that had been given is completed.

The Post Office = God
The Mail Carrier = Yeshua (he who was sent with the message)

If you sent a message to a relative 3000 miles away who would deliver it? Would it be you? No.....It would be the person(s) whom you've put your trust in in order for the message to be delivered safely and in a prompt manner.

Again....in order to be sent there must be a sender.

John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know YOU, the only true god, and Yeshua the Messiah, whom YOU have sent.

"You are the true god and I am the messiah, whom you have sent.....

This has got to be one of the clearest things he ever said.....(You are God, I am the blessed one. You sent me). There's no mystery in the statement. It's plain and simple.

I suspect you thought really hard before answering the question...
The postal workers deliver the mail. They work for the Post Office, and are, therefore, part of the Post Office, equal in representation to everyone else who works for the Post Office. Indeed, the postal workers comprise "the Post Office." Whenever I go to the post office, I'm always greeted by and deal with ... that's right! Postal workers. go figure. Why? Because they're "the Post Office."

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I suspect you thought really hard before answering the question...
The postal workers deliver the mail. They work for the Post Office, and are, therefore, part of the Post Office, equal in representation to everyone else who works for the Post Office. Indeed, the postal workers comprise "the Post Office." Whenever I go to the post office, I'm always greeted by and deal with ... that's right! Postal workers. go figure. Why? Because they're "the Post Office."

I see what you mean......

Each postal worker is separate from that which they serve. They all work together for one unified purpose but are separate none the less.

I agree with certain parts of your analogy but it of itself helps both of our cases. You can view them as one "Post Office" and I have no problem separating the worker from the collective. I have no problem understanding that the gun toting mad man bent on shooting up the joint does not represent the views of "the post office"....Or the lazy postal worker who stock piles years worth of main in his house because he wants to lighten his load. So although there is a post office not all of its workers are equal.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

I didn't realize we were in some sort of contest. I guess it comes down to interpretation. Especially when it comes to interpreting plain text.

John 6:38
For I (Yeshua) have come down from heaven, not to do My own (Separate) will, but the will of Him (My god) who sent me”

John 8:42................ I (Yeshua) proceeded and came forth from God; I (Yeshua) came not of my (Yeshua) own accord, but he (God) sent me”

Another KJV renders it like this;

"I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me."


Again, it's all good.........

Look at my last post and answer the question. When did the Alpha and the Omega die?

 

[Scott1]

Look at my last post and answer the question. When did the Alpha and the Omega die?

Maybe I missed it (if so please forgive me) but could a non-Trinitarian Christian answer a question for me... please?

If Jesus is not God, what's the point of all this Christianity stuff?

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Maybe I missed it (if so please forgive me) but could a non-Trinitarian Christian answer a question for me... please?

If Jesus is not God, what's the point of all this Christianity stuff?

If Jesus isn't God then the Bible, Judaism and Christianity are just a mythological falsies. A good majority of the Bible is the prophetic fore tellings and prophetic manifestation of Jesus's deity.