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Featured Christians...is sexual attraction a choice?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Moonjuice, Jun 22, 2021.

  1. Moonjuice

    Moonjuice In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey

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    When it comes to homosexuality, there seems to be two primary points of view: You are either born this way, or you choose it. I am convinced that it is not a choice and that almost anyone can be convinced its not a choice in very short order. Are there any Christians here who still think its a choice?
     
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  2. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    Those who oppose homosexuality cannot admit that it is not a choice.
     
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  3. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    I am of the opinion that those Christians who say it is a choice, is because they are either homosexual, or bi-sexual themselves, and are choosing to deny their own natural attractions to those of the same sex because of cultural pressures.

    To someone who simply is not attracted to the same sex, they aren't making a choice. There's nothing to choose. But to those who are... then that's where they think it's a choice for everyone else. They aren't acknowledging their own inclinations. They are trying to disown them. That's why they become anti-homosexual. It's self-repression and denial, projected onto others as "hating gays". It's all about themselves.
     
  4. Moonjuice

    Moonjuice In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey

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    I'm 100% certain that is not the case for all Christians. I was a Christian and I was convinced it was not a choice when I was a Christian and I'm heterosexual. In fact, everyone I knew agreed with me and 99% were not homosexuals themselves. It could be the case for some, but statistically, its certainly not the reason so many have a hard line opinion regarding sexual orientation. Not sure how you could come to that conclusion, it directly contradicts my own experience.
     
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  5. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Keeping in mind that crushes are mostly automatic and bend the mind, I'd say its usually not a choice. Maybe sometimes its is? The human desire has many latent abilities that can be awakened, and some awaken themselves without any prompting. I think some people are perfectly gay. They don't become it or choose it. They simply are gay. Some also think more like the other sex, however outward behavior is not telling. You cannot always tell who is gay, who is not.

    Christian scripture does not allow specific types of homosexual expressions -- for Jews at least. I think it promotes reproduction, too. It is a gray area for many. Many heterosexual Christians will use birth control, while others see this as wrong. Some people cannot reproduce but can adopt. I think an important discussion about Christianity and homosexuals is whether we can tap them as a resource to help raise children. There are many orphans who need adoptive parents, but Christians are reticent to bless homosexual unions.
     
  6. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    This is certainly true of the Catholic Church. Some years ago the Adoption agencies dropped Catholic Charities from their list of approved adoption status because they refused to handle adoptions for homosexuals. And recently; U.S. Supreme unanimously ruled that the city of Philadelphia violated Catholic Social Services’ right to free exercise of religion after it refused to contract with the agency after learning it rejected same-sex foster parents.
     
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  7. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    I used to think it was a choice in some cases, based on people I knew at university who seemed to take it up as a sort of pose. But that was in the 1970s.

    Since that era, as the social barriers have come down, it has become more apparent to me that the reason why these people seemed posy at university was that it was so hard to face the stigma of overt homosexuality that those that decided to grasp the nettle and come out had to make a big thing of it.

    There was one guy who I shared a set of rooms with in my first year, who I found extraordinarily mannered and irritating. It was only some years after we had both graduated that I learnt, indirectly, that he had come out as homosexual. I met him decades later and he seemed younger than he had seemed at university 30 years before - far more relaxed and natural. He was a different man.

    I don't know whether you are necessarily born that way, though. It may be something that forms as you develop, due to various influences, or it could be innate from birth. I don't think anyone knows, and actually it doesn't matter whether it is "nature" or "nurture": either way it is not a choice, it's just the way you are.
     
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  8. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    Whenever anyone brings that up I always ask at what age when chose to become heterosexual.
     
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  9. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    Who said anything about choice? My point is that, whether it is nature or nurture, it is not choice.
     
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  10. Psalm23

    Psalm23 Active Member

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    I don’t see how it would be a choice who one finds themselves attracted to.
     
  11. Jeremiah Ames

    Jeremiah Ames Active Member

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    its one of those religious falsities that arises from prooftexting the Bible to support an agenda of unkindness towards others, instead of:

    “thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself”. Mark 12:31
     
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  12. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    I believe that sexual orientation is largely biological, which means that it’s not a choice for the majority. The whole gender issue seems to have exploded over recent decades. And it’s interesting how many of the churches have responded.

    Something that came to my attention some time ago, is the fact that the partners of many lesbian women are themselves not actually “gay”. They are very feminine and are in a relationship with a female who hormonally and often physically, presents as male. It does not feel unnatural because the chemistry works. I came to understand that through interacting with a woman who was in a gay relationship. Her partner presented as very “male” to her. She had never considered herself “gay” and her relationship with her partner developed gradually over time, slowly bringing down the barriers she naturally once had. She said it was a natural progression that led to acceptance of the relationship.

    It is true that God’s word condemns homosexual sex, but it also condemns heterosexual sex outside of marriage......nowhere does it condemn homosexual people. Immorality is what is condemned.

    What the Bible says is very important because we never want to judge people for things over which they have no control. What they do have control over is their actions.

    Immorality has no gender.....so as long as there is no immoral conduct, no one is condemned by God.

    JW’s accept all people into our ranks but all are bound by the same rules. God’s moral laws are not negotiable to us.
     
  13. Messianic Israelite

    Messianic Israelite Active Member

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    Good evening Moonjuice. There is no gay gene Massive Study Finds No Single Genetic Cause of Same-Sex Sexual Behavior It is a choice to do evil, and to think evil. It's been shown over and over again that just thinking about something (the way we start to think) can change our brain chemistry.
     
  14. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    I never said all Christians. I said those who say it's a choice, is likely because for those Christians, it actually is. If they are bi-sexual, they can choose to act or not to act. So in their minds, it must be that way for homosexual people too. They are projecting.

    Of course I know all Christians don't believe it's a choice. I never did when I was part of the church. That claim it was a choice, always rang hollow to me. It wasn't for me as a heterosexual. But in their minds, it is. So why? Because they're probably bi-sexual.

    But as far as the most homophonic, most anti-gay, vocal Christians about homosexuality, that is very likely due to issues with their own latent or repressed homosexual feelings, either due to be gay themselves, or bi-sexual and conflicted about it. "Methinks the lady doth protest too loudly," fits in here. How many stories have we heard of these evangelical anti-gay pastors caught having gay sex? It's pretty unsurprising when the stories come out.
     
  15. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    We’ve known this for years... there is no A gay gene, or A heterosexual gene, there’s no single gene for any sexual orientation. Just as there’s no single gene for any of a thousand other traits. There are combinations of genes that manifest traits. So, the argument there is no gay gene is really pointless.
     
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  16. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    Yep, and I can tell you from personal experience it’s no choice. The very thought of sex with a woman, any woman turns me off the same as the thought of sex with another man is a turn off for a heterosexual man. I have a very different *ahem* reaction when I see what is to me an attractive man. I have no control over what my co-pilot does. I like women as people, and I can appreciate a beautiful woman... beautiful physically, intellectually, personally, but not sexually.
     
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  17. Moonjuice

    Moonjuice In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey

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    I appreciate your answer here. To dig in deeper, since homosexual sex is condemned by God as immoral (I assume) and we know that being homosexual is not a choice, it would mean that some people are born with a sexual attraction that if acted upon would be considered immoral. Yet other people are born with a sexual attraction that is NOT considered immoral when acted upon (assuming you are married). That being the case, it must be true that some people are born lucky to not have to worry about this, while others are faced with an unbelievable wall to climb where their natural response to sexual attraction is considered immoral by the creator. I was just about to say how unfair this is, but I suppose everyone already knows.
     
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  18. Moonjuice

    Moonjuice In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey

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    Right, I know you didn't say all Christians. I think you missed my point. I'm not even remotely convinced that if a Christian thinks homosexuality is a choice, its "because they're probably bi-sexual". I went to a fundamentalist Christian church and school. We were taught early earth, evolution is nonsense, the bible is inerrant, the flood really happened, the tower of babel is where languages came from and god would never create a homosexual. Everyone I knew claimed to believe homosexual attraction was a choice, including me, its what we were all taught. By your reasoning, everyone was bi-sexual, which is clearly wrong. Now, flash forward 25 years and you see the point of my OP. Do Christians still think its a choice? So far, no Christians have said they do - which is progress.
     
  19. Moonjuice

    Moonjuice In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey

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    There doesn't need to be a gay gene to understand that its not a choice. I absolutely HATE cucumbers. I have no idea why, but I don't even like the smell. If a cucumber touches my salad...the salad is ruined. I don't need to find an anti-cucumber tasting gene to know that I am not making a choice here. I have zero control over it. Just like you have zero control over what you find attractive.
     
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  20. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    Oh I see what you're saying now. Yes. Ditto. I too went to a fundamental church and bible college, that sounds pretty alike to your experience. Yes, there are those who are taught it's a choice and don't really question it. I was taught that as well, and just agreed without actually thinking about it at the time. It's when I began to question the things they said, then I could see that was nonsense too.

    I think my comment was to say, not just your rank and file going along with the group folks like you and me, at that time in my life, but those who are just a little too uptight about it for others, and honestly see it as a choice, because somewhere deep inside themselves they are conflicted with their own homosexual feelings. I'll give us sheep a slight pass. ;)
     
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