Christians And Sodomy

[sooda]

One of my pet peeves regarding creationists is that they accuse others of "assuming" far too often. Usually it is because that is what they would have to do since they refuse to understand the sciences. Ironically it is almost always a breaking of the Ninth Commandment when they make that claim.

"Spiritual eyes" is the first red flag.

In the Babylonian epic of Gilgamesh, probably written in the 2nd millennium BCE, Dilmun is described as a paradise, where people lived after surviving the Great Flood. Chronology While praised for its paradisiacal beauty, Dilmun began its rise in the Mesopotamian trade network during the late 3rd millennium BCE, when it expanded to the north.

 

[Prestor John]

If there were cities of the plain, they were probably long gone before Lot and Abraham.....QUOTE]
What makes you believe this?
Ezekiel 16:49 “‘The sin of your sister Sodom was this: She lived with her daughters in the lap of luxury—proud, gluttonous, and lazy. They ignored the oppressed and the poor.

The next verse states,

"And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good." (Ezekiel 16:50)

Some of these abominations have been revealed in the Bible and other records.

They included sexual promiscuity and corruption on a massive scale.

They were destroyed for various reasons.

 

[sooda]

The next verse states,

"And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good." (Ezekiel 16:50)

Some of these abominations have been revealed in the Bible and other records.

They included sexual promiscuity and corruption on a massive scale.

They were destroyed for various reasons.

I don't think so. If there were cities on the plain they were gone long before Abraham's time. Its like seeing the Grand Canyon and telling stories about Pecos Bill and the Widowmaker.

 

[Prestor John]

You think earth once existed in a paradisiacal state?

Yes.

What are spiritual eyes?

The eyes of your spirit that inhabits your physical body.

Are you familiar with the Bahrain archeipeligo?

Not really.

 

[Prestor John]

I don't think so. If there were cities on the plain they were gone long before Abraham's time. Its like seeing the Grand Canyon and telling stories about Pecos Bill and the Widowmaker.

Again, I will ask you, "What makes you believe this?"

 

[sooda]

Yes.

The eyes of your spirit that inhabits your physical body.

Not really.

Are you speaking of Eden as paradise?

 

[sooda]

Again, I will ask you, "What makes you believe this?"

Well, I've been there a couple of times and its a horrible place.

And, there is no evidence of any cities.

Ezekiel 16:49-50 is a unique passage in that God Himself talks of the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah. (Ezekiel is 5th century BC)

"Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

This passage confirms the above allegations concerning Sodom and Gomorrah. The cities of the plain were "overfed", indicating a wealth and abundance of food and resources.

Sodom and Gomorrah

 

[Prestor John]

Actually this time you did not do that, but usually people do so to be dishonest and that includes you.

You are making another claim about me without providing any evidence again.

I challenge you to provide an example of where I broke up a post in order to be dishonest.

Last point first, if you are not confused then you it is almost sure that you are a liar. I would rather assume that you were confused rather than lying.

Of course we could not simply come to different conclusions based on the same evidence.

I either need to be confused or a liar in order to believe something different than you do.

You don't see how ridiculous that position is?

As to all of your questions the evidence is clear as to what happened.

I recall asking you time and time again to present this "evidence" that provse the things you claim, but you never did.

There is no evidence at all for any of your fanciful "what ifs".

There is also no evidence that disproves them.

And I'll remind you again that you have never once presented any evidence that supports your claims.

What if the universe was the product of Fuchsia Fairy Flatulence? Pointless questions are pointless.

Yes, that question was pointless.

Like it or not your beliefs claim that God is a liar.

How is that?

When I was a Christian I did not believe that God lied, the question is why do you?

I do not believe that God has lied.

You seem to be confused.

No, I assumption is the sin of creationists. I follow the evidence.

The evidence that you are incapable of ever sharing?

By the way, why would an honest God hide anything?

God has not kept anything hidden from you.

Everything you need to know in order to become a witness of spiritual things is contained in the scriptures.

It has been your own ineptitude that caused these things to remain hidden to you.

Again you claim that God is a liar.

Nope. You are confused.

And let's not make false claims about other's beliefs past or present in God.

When did I do this?

By your logic I could claim that your hatred of others tells me that you do not believe in the Christian God either.

I do not hate anyone.

Who are you claiming that I hate?

That probably would not go over well with you.

I am confident.

 

[Prestor John]

One of my pet peeves regarding creationists is that they accuse others of "assuming" far too often. Usually it is because that is what they would have to do since they refuse to understand the sciences. Ironically it is almost always a breaking of the Ninth Commandment when they make that claim.

Are all your "pet peeves" things you are too scared to consider?

 

[Prestor John]

"Spiritual eyes" is the first red flag.

Then I'm full of "red flags".

I believe that all people have a literal spirit dwelling in their physical body.

In the Babylonian epic of Gilgamesh, probably written in the 2nd millennium BCE, Dilmun is described as a paradise, where people lived after surviving the Great Flood. Chronology While praised for its paradisiacal beauty, Dilmun began its rise in the Mesopotamian trade network during the late 3rd millennium BCE, when it expanded to the north.

Neat.

 

[sooda]

Then I'm full of "red flags".

I believe that all people have a literal spirit dwelling in their physical body.

Neat.

The Dead Sea, according to the Genesis account, was not yet in existence in the days of Abraham. In its place there was a fertile plain, known as the plain of Sittim, with five populous cities: Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah, Zeboiim, and Zoar.

Do you see why Sodom and Gomorrah, if they existed at all, were destroyed 10,000 years BEFORE Abraham?

The geology of the region doesn't lie and the Dead Sea is 35 million years old.

 

[Prestor John]

Are you speaking of Eden as paradise?

It was "paradisaical", but not the place designated as "paradise" in the scriptures.

Before Adam and Eve partook of the fruit, the Earth had not entered into mortality.

However, it was not celestialized either. It was free of sin and death.

This state has been referred to as a "paradisaical" state of being.

"Paradise" is a state of being that a person can enter into after they leave the mortal world.

It exists in the Spirit World and is enjoyed by the righteous.

 

[Prestor John]

Well, I've been there a couple of times and its a horrible place.

And, there is no evidence of any cities.

Ezekiel 16:49-50 is a unique passage in that God Himself talks of the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah. (Ezekiel is 5th century BC)

"Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

This passage confirms the above allegations concerning Sodom and Gomorrah. The cities of the plain were "overfed", indicating a wealth and abundance of food and resources.

Sodom and Gomorrah

Yes, that tends to be the prerequisite for all nations that begin committing abominations en masse.

Did you look for them under mountains or in the Dead Sea?

 

[sooda]

Yes, that tends to be the prerequisite for all nations that begin committing abominations en masse.

Did you look for them under mountains or in the Dead Sea?

Ezekiel didn't live until the 5th century.. He wouldn't have known Abraham.

 

[Prestor John]

The Dead Sea, according to the Genesis account, was not yet in existence in the days of Abraham. In its place there was a fertile plain, known as the plain of Sittim, with five populous cities: Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah, Zeboiim, and Zoar.

Do you see why Sodom and Gomorrah, if they existed at all, were destroyed 10,000 years BEFORE Abraham?

The geology of the region doesn't lie and the Dead Sea is 35 million years old.

Where in Genesis does it claim that the Dead Sea did not exist in the days of Abraham?

 

[sooda]

Where in Genesis does it claim that the Dead Sea did not exist in the days of Abraham?

Creationists claim the oceans were all sweetwater..

The plain around the Dead Sea was not lush if the Dead Sea existed..

 

[Prestor John]

Ezekiel didn't live until the 5th century.. He wouldn't have known Abraham.

When did I make the claim that Ezekiel knew Abraham?

The verses in Ezekiel are quotes from God Himself, who was personally involved with the events surrounding Sodom and Gomorrah.

Creationists claim the oceans were all sweetwater..

This is the first I'm hearing of this.

Where in the scriptures are the oceans described as sweetwater?

The plain around the Dead Sea was not lush if the Dead Sea existed..

Do you know exactly where these cities existed?

Do you know what constituted a "city" during that time?

 

[JJ50]

When did I make the claim that Ezekiel knew Abraham?

The verses in Ezekiel are quotes from God Himself, who was personally involved with the events surrounding Sodom and Gomorrah.

This is the first I'm hearing of this.

Where in the scriptures are the oceans described as sweetwater?

Do you know exactly where these cities existed?

Do you know what constituted a "city" during that time?

If the Sodom and Gomorrah isn't the unpleasant fairy tale I believe it to be, and the god character was responsible, it should be put up again the wall and shot for crimes against humanity.

 

[Prestor John]

If the Sodom and Gomorrah isn't the unpleasant fairy tale I believe it to be, and the god character was responsible, it should be put up again the wall and shot for crimes against humanity.

That's funny.

That's like killing a parent for putting their kid in timeout.

 

[sooda]

When did I make the claim that Ezekiel knew Abraham?

The verses in Ezekiel are quotes from God Himself, who was personally involved with the events surrounding Sodom and Gomorrah.

This is the first I'm hearing of this.

Where in the scriptures are the oceans described as sweetwater?

Do you know exactly where these cities existed?

Do you know what constituted a "city" during that time?

Cities were quite small in Palestine... Like Jerusalem at the time of David perhaps 800 people.

It was desolate at the time of Abraham and Lot.

Oh that's just some creationists who claimed the oceans were salt water.