Christianity vs Baha'i

[PoetPhilosopher]

One difference I've noticed is that Christians tend to see the world as generally becoming more decayed, while Baha'is tend to be optimistic that things will get better.

 

[stvdv]

Which has the better beliefs about God?

IMHO:

Who would be the best judge of "which of the 2 is better" you think?
Right ... God. And it's God Who advises us to "not judge"
The best Teacher lives by perfect example
Hence, He would not judge
So, this question is
a non-issue

 

[Trailblazer]

It certainly is your right to choose your own belief.

However why would a follower of Christ who is the son of God and is an unequaled representative of Jehovah decide to follow a person without any qualifications (apart from promoting himself) instead of the one send directly by God to instructs us in the truth ?

So what qualifications did Jesus have that Baha'u'llah did not have and how do we really even know what those qualifications were? We know for a fact what Baha'u'llah's qualifications were since He came in the 19th century and there is a chronicled history written by people who knew Him personally.

Baha'u'llah did not promote Himself, he promoted only God, just as Jesus did. The proof that He promoted only God is in His Writings, which were penned in Hos own hand.

But of course Jesus claimed to speak for God, just as Baha'u'llah did, but that was not a promotion, since both Jesus and Baha'u'llah humbled themselves before God.

Question: Who says that Jesus is an unequaled representative of Jehovah?

Answer: Christianity says it, but Jesus never said it.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

That was true for the Dispensation of Jesus Christ but Baha'is believe that Dispensation has ended. We believe that the WAY to come to the Father in this Dispensation is through Baha’u’llah.

What Jesus said about coming to the Father Is really no different than what Baha’u’llah said about how we come to the Father. Only the time period has changed… The embodiment of God’s remembrance among men for this age is Baha’u’llah.

“Thou hast gained admittance into the Paradise of God’s Remembrance, through thy recognition of Him Who is the Embodiment of that Remembrance amongst men.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 303

So what do Christians have that Baha'is do not have? Well, you have over 2,000 years of history, so you have a lot more followers. You also have the Bible, but Baha'u'llah wrote 15,000 Tablets, which is the equivalent of many, many Bibles.

And of course there is no proof that Jesus was sent directly by God, so that is simply a belief based upon scriptures, just as Baha'is believe that Baha'u'llah was sent by God based upon our scriptures.

 

[Trailblazer]

The one world Government will be instituted with Jesus Christ - in the Christian understanding.

Where does it say that in the Bible?

How can that happen given Jesus said His work was finished here and He was no more in the world?

(John 14:19, John 17:4, John 17:11, John 19:30, John 18:36)

Do you believe that Jesus will rule from heaven and the Christians on earth will run this world government?

 

[shunyadragon]

As a Christian it seems to me Baha'ullah is little different than the others who have made similar claims since Jesus came. Such as Mohammad or Joseph Smith.

Baha'ullah wants people to believe that making one world government is the right thing to do. Whereas the scriptures from Genesis to Revelation inform us that it's a really bad idea. When Christ returns Himself then He'll make world peace but until then ... one world government is going to be disastrous.

I can understand how faiths grounded in ancient tribal belief systems, like Judaism, Christianity and Islam view the Baha'i Faith, but in the future religions in contention and often at war is not the standard as in the past.

This is misinformation as to what the Baha'i Faith proposes, which is more like an elected voluntary confederation with a hierarchy of elected administrative bodies, where only Baha'is are obligated to believe and be apart of.

 

[Trailblazer]

One difference I've noticed is that Christians tend to see the world as generally becoming more decayed, while Baha'is tend to be optimistic that things will get better.

It is true that Bahais are more optimistic, but Christians believe the world will get better when Jesus returns, although Jesus never said He would return.

(John 14:19, John 17:4, John 17:11, John 19:30, John 18:36)

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

It is true that Bahais are more optimistic, but Christians believe the world will get better when Jesus returns, although Jesus never said He would return.

(John 14:19, John 17:4, John 17:11, John 19:30, John 18:36)

Maybe Bahaullah really was the return of the Abrahamic divine.

Of course, I disagree with Baha'is on other issues... but take a fair statement from me while you can get it...

 

[Trailblazer]

Maybe Bahaullah really was the return of the Abrahamic divine.

No, Bahais believe that Baha'u'llah was the return of Christ, the Messiah, and the Promised One of all the religions of the past.

"If Baha'u'llah truly is the Promised One then His appearance is one of the greatest events of human history. Are Baha'u'llah's claim true? How can we know for certain? Just take a look at some of the proofs and prophecies... and then decide for yourself."

Prophecy Fulfilled Webpage

 

[Nakosis]

IMHO:

Who would be the best judge of "which of the 2 is better" you think?
Right ... God. And it's God Who advises us to "not judge"
The best Teacher lives by perfect example
Hence, He would not judge
So, this question is
a non-issue

It says not to judge others but here we are only judging religious teachings. Certainly, we should judge what is correct to believe about God, shouldn't we?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Which has the better beliefs about God?

While I am familiar with Christian belief, please feel free to say while you feel Christianity is the correct belief to have.

The little I know about the Baha'i religion comes mostly from these forums.

However, I think I'm correct in thinking that according to Baha'i all should become Baha'i because it has the better understanding/knowledge of God.

If you think this is true, why? What is better about your understanding? Why should Christians convert to Baha'i? Or do you see Christianity, the beliefs, the knowledge of God being equal to Baha'i? So there is nothing to be gained by a Christain converting to Baha'i?

As a Bahá’í for 45 years who converted from Catholicism I can say that the best religion to choose is what you feel from your own personal investigation to be the right or best one.

Don’t listen to me. Do your own research. Read with your own eyes what Christ and Baha’u’llah both say.

But Bahá’í belief is that we accept all truth and Christ is truth so we accept Him and the Bible as the Word of God. There is complete love and harmony. It is forbidden for us to exalt or claim superiority of one religion over another as that is against the spirit of love and harmony. And one other important point I wish to emphasise is that to be a Bahá’í one must accept Jesus. So Christ is fundamental Bahá’í belief as well as other Prophets.


I dream of the day we, all religions, can come together to work for the betterment of humanity. I think maturity is required to put away notions of supremacy and superiority as we are all children of the same one Father, God. Let us be as one, united.

 

[Trailblazer]

And one other important point I wish to emphasise is that to be a Bahá’í one must accept Jesus. So Christ is fundamental Bahá’í belief as well as other Prophets.

Indeed.....

“As to the position of Christianity, let it be stated without any hesitation or equivocation that its divine origin is unconditionally acknowledged, that the Sonship and Divinity of Jesus Christ are fearlessly asserted, that the divine inspiration of the Gospel is fully recognized, that the reality of the mystery of the Immaculacy of the Virgin Mary is confessed, and the primacy of Peter, the Prince of the Apostles, is upheld and defended. The Founder of the Christian Faith is designated by Bahá’u’lláh as the “Spirit of God,” is proclaimed as the One Who “appeared out of the breath of the Holy Ghost,” and is even extolled as the “Essence of the Spirit.” His mother is described as “that veiled and immortal, that most beauteous, countenance,” and the station of her Son eulogized as a “station which hath been exalted above the imaginings of all that dwell on earth,” whilst Peter is recognized as one whom God has caused “the mysteries of wisdom and of utterance to flow out of his mouth. .......

Indeed, the essential prerequisites of admittance into the Bahá’í fold of Jews, Zoroastrians, Hindus, Buddhists, and the followers of other ancient faiths, as well as of agnostics and even atheists, is the wholehearted and unqualified acceptance by them all of the divine origin of both Islám and Christianity, of the Prophetic functions of both Muḥammad and Jesus Christ, of the legitimacy of the institution of the Imamate, and of the primacy of St. Peter, the Prince of the Apostles. Such are the central, the solid, the incontrovertible principles that constitute the bedrock of Bahá’í belief, which the Faith of Bahá’u’lláh is proud to acknowledge, which its teachers proclaim, which its apologists defend, which its literature disseminates, which its summer schools expound, and which the rank and file of its followers attest by both word and deed.”

The Promised Day is Come, pp. 109-110

 

[stvdv]

It says not to judge others but here we are only judging religious teachings. Certainly, we should judge what is correct to believe about God, shouldn't we?

I see no need in that. As God is defined to be beyond human imagination even, to me there is no humanly "correct belief of God"
@stvdvRF

 

[loverofhumanity]

As a follow up, I mentioned that I converted from Catholicism to Bahá’í. Was there something wrong with Catholicism? No, of course not. It taught me to love God, Jesus and people. It taught me truthfulness and honesty and never to lie.

Catholicism taught me to love and adore Jesus. I knew Jesus so well in my heart that whether He rode a donkey or a camel, I would know Him. And if He changed His Name, I would know Him. And no matter which country He appeared in, I would know Him. For to me, His Glorious Spirit stands out as bright as the sun at midday, so no matter whether He wore a robe or was crucified or a prisoner I would know Him.

So when I heard about Baha’u’llah and investigated for myself, I found Him to be the same Jesus I knew from my childhood. I guess I was fortunate that I fell in love with Jesus and not the church or priests. So I left the church and priests to embrace His Return, which they say hasn’t happened but I discovered has.

So I have accepted Jesus on both occasions when He first appeared and now again in the Person of Baha’u’llah.

To illustrate where things seem to have gone wrong. Let us liken Jesus to the Sun. When the Sun appears, people call it the sun of Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday, but it is the same sun that reappears. But if we say there are seven Suns with regard to the names of the days of the week then that would be correct too.

But the main point is that there is only one sun not seven. People who see seven, see only division but those who see the reality that it is really the same sun, see oneness in all religions.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I see no need in that. As God is defined to be beyond human imagination even, to me there is no humanly "correct belief of God"

Stvdv. You have tremendous insight friend.

Beautifully put. Whatever we imagine to be God, is but our imagination, and if we worship the image we form in our own minds, then we are worshipping our own imaginations.

All the sects and peoples worship their own thought; they create a god in their own minds and acknowledge him to be the creator of all things, when that form is superstition—thus people adore and worship imagination (or illusion). (Abdul-Baha)

 

[shunyadragon]

I see no need in that. As God is defined to be beyond human imagination even, to me there is no humanly "correct belief of God"

From the Baha'i perspective that humans cannot define God in terms of their own independent belief. IF God exists God would beyond any one cultural nor religious human perspective. It is 'belief' we are dealing with from the human perspective. From the Baha'i perspective we believe that God exists as the eternal 'Source' of everything and through progressive and universal Revelation we acquire the attributes of God, but not know God.

About all we can agree on is 'God' is three letter word in English, and four or more in other languages.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Indeed.....

“As to the position of Christianity, let it be stated without any hesitation or equivocation that its divine origin is unconditionally acknowledged, that the Sonship and Divinity of Jesus Christ are fearlessly asserted, that the divine inspiration of the Gospel is fully recognized, that the reality of the mystery of the Immaculacy of the Virgin Mary is confessed, and the primacy of Peter, the Prince of the Apostles, is upheld and defended. The Founder of the Christian Faith is designated by Bahá’u’lláh as the “Spirit of God,” is proclaimed as the One Who “appeared out of the breath of the Holy Ghost,” and is even extolled as the “Essence of the Spirit.” His mother is described as “that veiled and immortal, that most beauteous, countenance,” and the station of her Son eulogized as a “station which hath been exalted above the imaginings of all that dwell on earth,” whilst Peter is recognized as one whom God has caused “the mysteries of wisdom and of utterance to flow out of his mouth. .......

Indeed, the essential prerequisites of admittance into the Bahá’í fold of Jews, Zoroastrians, Hindus, Buddhists, and the followers of other ancient faiths, as well as of agnostics and even atheists, is the wholehearted and unqualified acceptance by them all of the divine origin of both Islám and Christianity, of the Prophetic functions of both Muḥammad and Jesus Christ, of the legitimacy of the institution of the Imamate, and of the primacy of St. Peter, the Prince of the Apostles. Such are the central, the solid, the incontrovertible principles that constitute the bedrock of Bahá’í belief, which the Faith of Bahá’u’lláh is proud to acknowledge, which its teachers proclaim, which its apologists defend, which its literature disseminates, which its summer schools expound, and which the rank and file of its followers attest by both word and deed.”

The Promised Day is Come, pp. 109-110

One of the things I love most is that we are told to view all as equals no matter belief or no belief, not to exalt ourselves over others and to accept all with the light of oneness.

So I don’t have to reject anyone. I don’t have to judge anyone or tell others I’m saved and they are not, which to me is condescension. I can be friends with the entire human race. I’m not in a strait jacket. I can visit and pray in Buddhist pagodas, Jewish Synagogues, Christian Churches, Hindu Temples. So liberating.

There’s nothing worse than being restricted to mixing with just one race, religion or nationality much like eating the same food everyday. I really hope that all humanity becomes liberated so we can all be true friends.

 

[Goddess Kit]

They're both imaginative representations of the human creative mind.

 

[Kenny]

Where does it say that in the Bible?

There are different areas but it is that one world government that will Rev 13: 16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

How can that happen given Jesus said His work was finished here and He was no more in the world?

(John 14:19, John 17:4, John 17:11, John 19:30, John 18:36)

The work that was completed was the work of salvation. He finished his "work" in this world for forgiveness of mankind.

We must remember that the angel also said, Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Do you believe that Jesus will rule from heaven and the Christians on earth will run this world government?

I believe he will rule from Jerusalem but with people on the earth.

 

[Trailblazer]

One of the things I love most is that we are told to view all as equals no matter belief or no belief, not to exalt ourselves over others and to accept all with the light of oneness.

So I don’t have to reject anyone.

You took the words right out of my mouth. I cannot even bear the thought of rejecting anyone. I can remember as a child wondering what it would be like to be black in a world where back then blacks were rejected, and reading the book "Black Like Me" although as a child I was not much of a reader.

I don’t have to judge anyone or tell others I’m saved and they are not, which to me is condescension. I can be friends with the entire human race. I’m not in a strait jacket. I can visit and pray in Buddhist pagodas, Jewish Synagogues, Christian Churches, Hindu Temples. So liberating.

That is essentially why I could not be any other religion except Baha'i, although the icing on the cake is that I am certain that Baha'u'llah is the Messenger of God for this age, the return of Christ, the Messiah and the Promised One of All ages.

Nevertheless, when I am in distress I always call out to Jesus, not Baha'u'llah... Why is that, given I was not raised as a Christian and I never read one page of the Bible until eight years ago? I think it is because of how Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha exalted Jesus, and my coming to understand the station of Jesus, and what I have now read of the New Testament. Thank God I do not have to reject Jesus or the NT just because I am a Baha'i and I cam embrace them instead.

There’s nothing worse than being restricted to mixing with just one race, religion or nationality much like eating the same food everyday. I really hope that all humanity becomes liberated so we can all

Well, I do not do a lot of mixing except on this forum, but I love mixing here.... I love all the different people and personalities and different beliefs and the atheists and agnostics, everybody. It has really opened up my mind to another world I never knew, because before I came here I was pretty isolated.

 

[Trailblazer]

There are different areas but it is that one world government that will Rev 13: 16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Those verses are about as clear as mud. I mean they could mean almost anything at all. I find it ironic that Christians all believe they know what the Book of Revelation means yet they do not agree on what it means.

The work that was completed was the work of salvation. He finished his "work" in this world for forgiveness of mankind.

That is true...
John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

But Jesus also said...
John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

And that indicates Jesus had finished ALL the work God gave Him to do. It also indicates that glorifying God in earth was the "work" God gave Him to do.

We must remember that the angel also said, Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Well, that cannot mean what you believe it means, that the same man Jesus will return to earth in the same body unless the Bible is in error, given what Jesus said:

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

I believe that "in like manner" means they the spirit of Jesus would return as it came down before, from the heaven of the Will of God.

I believe he will rule from Jerusalem but with people on the earth.

But the same man Jesus cannot rule from the city of Jerusalem unless the Bible is in error, because Jesus said that His kingdom was not of this world and he denied being a king:

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

These two verses in John 18 completely negate that Jesus is the King of this world or that Jesus will ever come to this world to rule it, and they fit perfectly together with John 17:4 and John 17:11. Jesus came into this world to bear witness unto the truth about God. He did that so there is no more reason for Jesus to come back to this world again. That is why Jesus said “I am no more in the world.”