Christianity and secular music (rock, in particular)

[Ulver]

I find Manson too much of a pop-idol and rather boring, but I do think the man is intelligent.

He proves it rather well here on his interview from Bowling For Columbine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUhcC1STqv4

He ripped up the Word of God on stage; i take it thats acceptable to you? Thats not an act of someone who loves God now, is it???

I'd rip up any holy text if I thought it would do something positive. To me, in terms of symbolic nature, it's little different then burning a flag, which is another thing a lot of people just don't understand.

 

[porkchop]

whats going on???? LOL

 

[porkchop]

that's exactly the problem - and yet you feel completely justified in calling other, more informed opinions 'misguided'.

Did you read the same post i wrote??

 

[porkchop]

It doesn't necessarily have to be fear, but it seems to me that in most instances I've witnessed, fear is the key factor. But by just singling out that one word I used in my statement, you are missing my entire point. I see some religious folks avoiding any music that they perceive as contrary to their religion because they think it somehow threatens their religious beliefs. So many wrongly assume that all heavy metal is Satanic for example. It seems to me they do this (avoiding certain music) because they think if they listen to it they will lose their faith or God will damn them for something as petty as hearing a rock song. Now, if listening to "secular music" is a threat to someone's faith, that says more about the person's faith than it does about the music. One must have pretty weak faith in God in order for it to be threatened by a rock song.

All of the above youve mentioned have nothing to do with why i choose not to listen to rock music. You make alot of assumptions and sweeping statements, nearly as many as ive been accused of!!

 

[porkchop]

Sorry, Maddlama, don't want you to feel left out, i came on earlier to respond to everyone from yesterday, then got into a debate with others who were online and got a bit side tracked, i will answer your questions now.

What exactly is satanic about rock music in general?

The message that rock music sends ( this isnt just for rock music, rap and pop are the same) is a general one of rebellion, lawlessnes, immorality,anti God, anti christianity; yes, there are specific bands that you would clearly label satanic, and they'd be proud of the label, but then you have the more suttle ones. A song doesnt have to blaspheme God directly to be bad, the whole attitude is anti Gods law, which is anti Christ, thats probably a better way of saying it than satanic for all of them. At the end of the day, you are on one side or the other, and they are not on Gods.

You said you don't like Christian rock music either, so, is it the lyrics, or is it the instruments and how they are being played?

because its impersonating the world,something that i have left behind, God gave me a new heart, why would i want to return from the things ive been delivered from?
Alot of the lyrics, i find, are very wishy washy anyway, i bought a CCM album and could find only two songs on it that were, i think, specifically aimed at God.

If Christians shouldn't be listening to music that is supposed to "glorify god", then what should they be listening to?

Ive never said CCM is bad and that christians shouldnt listen to it, i just dont like most of the stuff out there. Christians should be listening to music that glorifys God, i have never said thay shouldnt. There are many beautiful Hymns and chorus' to sing the Lord praises to , or CCM, if they wish.

Is all rock music bad, or only the ones with profanity, lyrics that mention sex, or anything that that even hints that they don't believe in God?

Any song that promotes/encourages disobedience to Gods laws i would class as 'bad'. U2 are a rock band and alot of their stuff is good, I'd say you could find the odd song within rock bands that are ok, but on a whole, i dont think you could pick out one band (even U2 for those who are thinking that i say they ok cuz they profess to be christians) that is sound.

Remember, im debating wether it is right for a christian to listen to rock music, if youre not a christian, wether or not you listen to rock isnt gonna help you,concentrate on getting yourself right with God first, Maddlama.

Do you think that nobody should be entertained?

No, i dont think that. An unsaved heart is entertained by different things to that of a saved one.

 

[standing_alone]

All of the above youve mentioned have nothing to do with why i choose not to listen to rock music. You make alot of assumptions and sweeping statements, nearly as many as ive been accused of!!

No, I wasn't assuming that's why you don't listen to rock music nor was I making any sweeping statements. I said that "some religious folks" don't listen to rock music because of the reasons I stated in answer to the question you posed me. I didn't say that was the case for you. Now why don't you go back and reread my post and actually provide some relevant counter-arguments.

 

[Bishka]

No, i dont think that. An unsaved heart is entertained by different things to that of a saved one.

Your heart perhaps. I like to think of myself as being saved, yet, my 'heart' isn't entertained by different music. As I grow and learn I'm interested in different music, but as a whole my tastes don't change a lot.

But, according to you, I'm not saved and I'm bound for the hell-train. So what difference does what I listen to make?

 

[d.]

Did you read the same post i wrote??

i took the opportunity...

 

[Ulver]

Isn't it ironic that this person "stimpy" is bashing rock music so much, while he/she has a picture of a very lewd (though I've found Ren & Stimpy sometimes funny) cartoon character as their avatar?

 

[Tigress]

As someone who used to be a rocker, and since being saved (accepting Jesus/becoming a christian ) hasn't listened to the stuff ( my choice), i find it hard to understand why so many christians are still listening to rock/nu metal. This actually makes me question their salvation or wether they have back slidden ( and no, im not judging here). Because, i cant for the life of me understand how a 'christian' can read their Bible one minute, and the next be listening to NIN, Sunna,Korn,limp bizkit,tool, hole, too name but a few. Most are obviously anti Christ, some bands are more suttle about it, but the swear words, aggression; and of course, our lifes are to be a witness to people, how does it look when your listening to music that slags off your God???
I am also curious as to what muslims think on this subject.

Yes, you are making a judgment call, and NIN, Sunna, Korn, etc., are not the 'be all, end all' of the rock music genre. If listening to a particular song, band, or genre affects you negatively, then by all means, don't listen to it, but I don't think anyone has any business making such a call on behalf of all Christians.

 

[RevOxley_501]

stimpy definately needs to expand his musical horizons---

perhaps: www.zaoonline.com might help (shameless attempt to promote the best band in the universe)

 

[MaddLlama]

The message that rock music sends ( this isnt just for rock music, rap and pop are the same) is a general one of rebellion, lawlessnes, immorality,anti God, anti christianity; yes, there are specific bands that you would clearly label satanic, and they'd be proud of the label, but then you have the more suttle ones.

Funny, I never got that impression at all. Is it possible that this idea you have about rock music promoting those things is only your interpretation? Because I think you're the only person in this thread that has come to that conclusion. So, either everyone else but you is wrong, or this is just your personal opinion. I wonder which it is.

A song doesnt have to blaspheme God directly to be bad, the whole attitude is anti Gods law, which is anti Christ, thats probably a better way of saying it than satanic for all of them. At the end of the day, you are on one side or the other, and they are not on Gods.

How do you comw to that conclusion?

because its impersonating the world,something that i have left behind, God gave me a new heart, why would i want to return from the things ive been delivered from?
Alot of the lyrics, i find, are very wishy washy anyway, i bought a CCM album and could find only two songs on it that were, i think, specifically aimed at God.

Ah, see again, this is your opinion. You find the lyrics to be "wishy washy" however other find them to be quite uplifting. Not everyone sees music as something to be delivered from - for some people, it's a positive influence in thier life.
There's a great quote somewhere in Romans that says something to the effect of "what is good for one person may not be good for another, and that's perfectly ok". I wrote it down somewhere years and years ago, and now I can't find it.

Ive never said CCM is bad and that christians shouldnt listen to it, i just dont like most of the stuff out there. Christians should be listening to music that glorifys God, i have never said thay shouldnt. There are many beautiful Hymns and chorus' to sing the Lord praises to , or CCM, if they wish.

Not everyone is into singing hymns all the time. Yes, they're spiritual, but for some they just don't fall into the category of entertainment. Sometimes CCM doesn't ether. Sometimes you just have to crank up the radio when "Wang Chung Tonight" is on (and no, that isn't a euphemism for sex, it's the name of the band, and the song is about how fun it is to dance).

Any song that promotes/encourages disobedience to Gods laws i would class as 'bad'. U2 are a rock band and alot of their stuff is good, I'd say you could find the odd song within rock bands that are ok, but on a whole, i dont think you could pick out one band (even U2 for those who are thinking that i say they ok cuz they profess to be christians) that is sound.

People have negative emotions and experiences everyday. That's part of being human. Musicians take those things and put it into music as a form of catharsis for them, and it becomes one for us as we listen to it. It osn't about making people feel sad or angry - your emotional response to the music is your own responsibility when it comes down to it. Personally I think you have it backwards - most rock music is innocuous, but there are a few songs here and there that are objectionable. There are some songs that even I won't listen to.

Remember, im debating wether it is right for a christian to listen to rock music, if youre not a christian, wether or not you listen to rock isnt gonna help you,concentrate on getting yourself right with God first, Maddlama.

We're not debating whether or not I listen to rock music, and I am trying to argue this from a religious perspective. I know what the topic is. Frankly, if you didn't want non-Christians chiming in with thier optinion, then you should have put this in the "same faith debates" folder. But you didn't.
And, my religious persuasion isn't the issue here. If you're so inclined you can take that to another thread.

i find it hard to understand why so many christians are still listening to rock/nu metal. This actually makes me question their salvation or wether they have back slidden ( and no, im not judging here).

BTW, questioning the salvation of another Christian for any reason is judging them. There's a difference between worrying for a fellow Christian who is doing something that is obviously ruining thier life, and telling someone who does something that you personally don't like that thier salvation is in jeapordy. This is the latter. Why can't this issue be between a person and God? Wouldn't he know a persons heart and the result of doing whatever activity better than you?
I question why you appear to be so insecure that if a Christian doesn't share your opinion, or live thier life like you, you have to assume that there's something wrong with them. You can't publically sit in judgement of other Christians for not sharing your opinion, and expect to be a good witness to others.

 

[MaddLlama]

Isn't it ironic that this person "stimpy" is bashing rock music so much, while he/she has a picture of a very lewd (though I've found Ren & Stimpy sometimes funny) cartoon character as their avatar?

Yes, it does strike me as odd. Actually I thought that show was so disgusting and lewd that even I couldn't watch it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Isn't it ironic that this person "stimpy" is bashing rock music so much, while he/she has a picture of a very lewd (though I've found Ren & Stimpy sometimes funny) cartoon character as their avatar?

I noticed that one her first day, the name a avatar character of Stimpy.

 

[porkchop]

Isn't it ironic that this person "stimpy" is bashing rock music so much, while he/she has a picture of a very lewd (though I've found Ren & Stimpy sometimes funny) cartoon character as their avatar?

To all who have mentioned this, i used to watch Ren & Stimpy in my student years and i don't recall anything being lewd about it, then again, i wasnt saved back then, but i think Stimpys really cute!!
Do you think it would be best to change my pic. and name so as not to give the wrong impression? Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[RevOxley_501]

To all who have mentioned this, i used to watch Ren & Stimpy in my student years and i don't recall anything being lewd about it, then again, i wasnt saved back then, but i think Stimpys really cute!!
Do you think it would be best to change my pic. and name so as not to give the wrong impression? Thanks for pointing it out.

i think it would be best to change your attitude of judgement---thats scarring your image and the church a heck of alot more than stimpy is

 

[porkchop]

i think it would be best to change your attitude of judgement---thats scarring your image and the church a heck of alot more than stimpy is

So you dont think its necessary to change stimpy then?

 

[RevOxley_501]

no, it is neccessary to find a more loving, less judgemental attitude so that the body of Christ might not be scarred by ANOTHER fallible hypocrite that tells us what we and non believers should or should not do---

but if you intend to stay the way you are---you might want to remove the avatar--wont help much though

 

[MaddLlama]

Our views on Ren and Stimpy is just as superficial as your views on Rock and Roll. We just won't hold your name and avatar against you because we know there's more to you than just a vulgar cartoon. So no, you don't really need to change it.

That is exactly the point.

 

[MaddLlama]

I'm just agreeing with you for emphasis, because I have the feeling that she's not grasping the point.