Christianity and Kids!

[EiNsTeiN]

Hello everybody..

Today in Egypt, christians celebrate "turning new born kids into christianity"
I dont actually know the name of this process, but as I know, they put the little kids in water, and then they become christians..

Well, my question is, can you please guys tell me more about this?!

Thanks alot

 

[sandandfoam]

I think you're talking about baptism.

 

[EiNsTeiN]

Yeah, I think that's it..

 

[EiNsTeiN]

so, before baptism occures, what is the religion of the kid?
I mean after baptism, s/he becomes a christian, what about before?

 

[sandandfoam]

I suppose they wouldn't have a religion before.

 

[sandandfoam]

When I think about it I'm in agreement with Richard Dawkins on this one. I don't think a child is a Christian/Muslim/Atheist child but the child of Christian/Muslim/Atheist parents.

 

[EiNsTeiN]

So, if the child died before baptism, what would be his situation in front of God?

 

[sandandfoam]

With respect, you would have to address that question to God.

 

[Mister Emu]

Hello everybody..

Today in Egypt, christians celebrate "turning new born kids into christianity"
I dont actually know the name of this process, but as I know, they put the little kids in water, and then they become christians..

Well, my question is, can you please guys tell me more about this?!

It is Baptism...

The Baptism of infants
1250 Born with a fallen human nature and tainted by original sin, children also have need of the new birth in Baptism to be freed from the power of darkness and brought into the realm of the freedom of the children of God, to which all men are called.50 The sheer gratuitousness of the grace of salvation is particularly manifest in infant Baptism. The Church and the parents would deny a child the priceless grace of becoming a child of God were they not to confer Baptism shortly after birth.51
1251 Christian parents will recognize that this practice also accords with their role as nurturers of the life that God has entrusted to them.52 [SIZE=-1]1252 The practice of infant Baptism is an immemorial tradition of the Church. There is explicit testimony to this practice from the second century on, and it is quite possible that, from the beginning of the apostolic preaching, when whole "households" received baptism, infants may also have been baptized.53[/SIZE]
Catechism of the Catholic Church - The sacrament of Baptism

 

[sandandfoam]

Hi Mr. Emu,
I know it's not for this thread but I'm not with the RC view on original sin, I believe we are born good.

 

[Todd]

When I think about it I'm in agreement with Richard Dawkins on this one. I don't think a child is a Christian/Muslim/Atheist child but the child of Christian/Muslim/Atheist parents.

I agree. It's a choice that the child will have to make down the road in my opinion (at what age, who knows). It demonstrates the faith of the parents, but not the eventual beliefs of the child.

 

[Mister Emu]

So, if the child died before baptism, what would be his situation in front of God?

1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,"63 allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.

 

[Valjean]

So, if the child died before baptism, what would be his situation in front of God?

I think in most Protestant theology, an infant who dies unbaptised will never see God, though the specifics of this aren't clear.

The Roman Catholics, as usual, have worked out an intricate scheme: Such a child inhabits a region on the edge (limbus) of Hell, which is subdivided into four regions. An unbaptised child, being still tainted with Original Sin, resides in the Limbo of Infants.

Infant Baptism is a controversial issue among many Protestants. Some denominations hold that if Baptism is not accepted by free choice it is invalid, so the faithful are only baptised as adults.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I think in most Protestant theology, an infant who dies unbaptised will never see God, though the specifics of this aren't clear.

I don't think that's the case. Protestants, feel free to correct me if I'm wront, but AFAIK, most (all?) denominations that practice "believer's baptism" (i.e. baptism at an age where the person being baptised understands and accepts the decision being made) don't preach that someone who dies before this point can't get into Heaven. Also, I think it's a fairly common belief that children can't sin until they reach the point where they can consciously, deliberately and knowingly choose a sinful behaviour, so small children get a "free pass" into Heaven.

In addition, most protestant denominations teach that it's faith, not baptism, that saves a person. In that context, baptism is just an outward expression of a pre-existing inward faith, and the faithful of any age would be saved regardless of whether they had formally been baptised.

The Roman Catholics, as usual, have worked out an intricate scheme: Such a child inhabits a region on the edge (limbus) of Hell, which is subdivided into four regions. An unbaptised child, being still tainted with Original Sin, resides in the Limbo of Infants.

None of that is required Catholic belief. Recently (last year?) the Pope actually issued a statement that emphasized that "limbo" isn't a Catholic teaching. The Catechism of the Catholic Church says this:

1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them.

 

[EiNsTeiN]

ok, thanks guys for the info.

There is no such a thing in Islam...We believe everyone is born pure, and not sinful..
Moreover, we believe everyone is born muslim, and then s/he becomes what s/he wants after s/he grow up, or turns to christianity (for instance) through baptism..

Thanks again guys

 

[sandandfoam]

ok, thanks guys for the info.

...We believe everyone is born pure, and not sinful..

I agree

 

[ChristineES]

I don't think Protestants send babies to hell (or what they believe is hell). A baby doesn't have the maturity to separate him or herself from God, so how could they? I am under the belief that God takes tiny babies who die to Himself. I think the same can be said of mentally handicapped people. I have no scripture to back this up with except when Jesus told His disciples to bring Him children and He blessed them.

One of the reasons my mother lost her belief in God is when her baby died (before I was born) at the age of 6 months, he was not baptized. She was told by Catholics that her baby would be in "limbo" (I think that was what she told me) and she would have to pray him out. She had already lost her faith because of reading about the Holocaust and this just put her over edge.

 

[YmirGF]

... we believe everyone is born muslim ...

I have always felt this to be a particularly insulting claim as well as abysmally poor psychology. Then again, I have grown to expect this kind of thinking from the followers of the religion where proposterous claims are the norm, not the exception.

Aside from this, you are, of course, referring to the practise of Baptism. The jury is out regarding the need for infants to be baptised but I would tend to side with the folks that say that one has to make a clear decision to become baptised. Obviously, small children do not fall into this category and are theoretically exempt. Jesus himself allegedly was baptised when he was a mature adult, so it follows that others should follow that example. Obviously, I do not subscribe to the prevelent attitudes in the Catholic church on this matter, but it is not like they are the keepers of the truth, now, is it?

 

[EiNsTeiN]

I have always felt this to be a particularly insulting claim as well as abysmally poor psychology. Then again, I have grown to expect this kind of thinking from the followers of the religion where proposterous claims are the norm, not the exception.

Again, if you thought about it a bit, it would seem logical...But of course "thinking" isn't and option you use while discussing Islam!

Well, as Islam calls for worshipping God, and claims that everything in the universe (except humans) worship God without a will (i.e. muslims too)...And as new born kids are not willing to choose, so they are born as (by default) muslims!

Thats seems logical to me!

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Well, as Islam calls for worshipping God, and claims that everything in the universe (except humans) worship God without a will (i.e. muslims too)...And as new born kids are not willing to choose, so they are born as (by default) muslims!

Thats seems logical to me!

Except that, IMO, worship requires a will. Regardless of how you might believe that non-human things in the universe demonstrate the glory of God, I don't think you can call any activity "worship" unless there's conscious thought behind it. I don't think that a newborn baby has the mental capacity to do this.

But tell me: if you still claim that babies are born Muslim, would you say they start off Shi'a or Sunni?