Christian Mysticism - Why ?

[Mr Cheese]

The power of God is with you at all times; through the activities of mind,
senses, breathing, and emotions; and is constantly doing all the work
using you as a mere instrument.”

–The Gita

There is no path that leads to Zen.
How can you follow a path to where you are right now?

–Robert Allen

 

[Mr Cheese]

If you can simply Be while at the same time actually Doing,
I would say you've got it goin' on.

If your "Christianity" does not empower you....
WHAT is it's point? what is it for.

the mystic seeks to do without doing...

I underastand you seek to be empowered, understandable with your life...
understandable to one drawn to satanism...

power corrupts, turns the person insane
power requires a fix, one has to keep getting more, in order to keep it...

what is the point?
when a caterpillar is born...its life revolves around eating.
The caterpillar may be eaten by a predator
Or it may survive to become fat
Then it produces a cocoon
It changes.
If it is lucky it is now a butterfly
and thus it begins to fly

the mystic seeks to fly
to be
the mystic seeks to travel to far off lands
the mystic knows, wherever they go, there they are

there is nothing to gain

 

[blackout]

the mystic seeks to do without doing...

Seeking is doing.

I underastand you seek to be empowered, understandable with your life...
understandable to one drawn to satanism...

The less empowered you are Cheesy,
the closer you are to dead.
Or statuary.
My vaccume without power
is little more than an appliance idol.
Molded plastic statuary sitting in my hallway.

Even the Mystic want's/seeks to be empowered in Mysticism.
Does the Mystic not imagine that the Mystery is a thing of Power?

Also, for the record, I am not the least bit drawn to satanism.
I understand satanism about as well as I understand christianity.
(which going by this thread, and the rest of the world,
is not at all.)

It is Setianism that I am drawn to.

power corrupts, turns the person insane
power requires a fix, one has to keep getting more, in order to keep it...

Power does not corrupt.

Usurpery corrupts.
Dictatorship corrupts.
The need to tell others who & how they "must" BE(have)
corrupts the natural current of the Individual's freedom to creativity.

Power is the ability to create, to do, to act,
to give personal meaning and form to life.

You don't "get" power...
you give RISE to the power that is your very BEing.
(should you choose to recognize and REALize it)

People who rob OTHERS of their own respective Self Empowerment,
in a play to "control" everyone (and everything)
they are the ones who slowly go insane.

 

[blackout]

power corrupts, turns the person insane
power requires a fix, one has to keep getting more, in order to keep it...

Almost forgot,
by Christian standards,
shouldn't jesus then be the most insane of them all?

Where did jesus keep getting his 'power fix'?

 

[Mr Cheese]

Seeking is doing.



The less empowered you are Cheesy,
the closer you are to dead.
Or statuary.
My vaccume without power
is little more than an appliance idol.
Molded plastic statuary sitting in my hallway.

Even the Mystic want's/seeks to be empowered in Mysticism.

.

A mystical seeker is not seeking when they are seeking
they are doing without doing

The follower of knowledge learns as much as he can every day; The follower of the Way forgets as much as he can every day. By attrition he reaches a state of inaction Wherein he does nothing, but nothing remains undone. To conquer the world, accomplish nothing; If you must accomplish something, The world remains beyond conquest.

–Tao Te Ching (Chapter 48)

The Satanist seeks to be empowered and seeks power. Their approach is that one is weakl, powerless, without power. That one needs a battery. The mystic sees that this is maya or illusion. To the Gnostic this is masturbation and worship of the Demi Urge. The demi urge represents the ego, negative emotions and actions that feed to empower us.

Masturbation’s energies go nowhere but the self. Thus it is like a person making their surroundings nicer. Their world nicer. Themselves nicer.

I am better, I have power, I have nicer breasts, my nose is sweeter, my penis looks good since I shaved….. etc

The mystic knows, there is nothing to improve

“I gained nothing at all from supreme enlightenment
It is that very reason it is called supreme enlightenment”

Why does the mystic say this?

Because the mystic knows that he does not exist…he is not his body
He is not his breasts…. He is…what he is…

He IS the wind
He does not need to command the wind, because he is ALL things
At all times…thus he as his true self, the captain of his heart, the christ…
He is the wind, he is the sea, he is a rock

108. Jesus said, "Whoever drinks from my mouth will become like me; I myself shall become that person, and the hidden things will be revealed to him."

77. Jesus said, "I am the light that is over all things. I am all: from me all came forth, and to me all attained.
Split a piece of wood; I am there.
Lift up the stone, and you will find me there."
When Buddha gained special powers, he renounced them, threw them away
Christ in turn was tempted…and could have accepted mastery of the world..but he renounced such temptations…

For the mystic is like the river..it flows…no matter the restriction…it flows
The sea needs no one to command it, the sea does not require pushing or pulling
Or power. The sea is the sea.

The mystic is the mystic
A mystic seeks no power
A mystic seeks to not seek.

Does the Mystic not imagine that the Mystery is a thing of Power?

Also, for the record, I am not the least bit drawn to satanism.
I understand satanism about as well as I understand christianity.
(which going by this thread, and the rest of the world,
is not at all.)

It is Setianism that I am drawn to.

.

Setianism is a form of satanism....
In that it is about self empowerment
self self self

.............................................................

A Taoist story tells of an old man who accidentally fell into the river rapids leading to a high and dangerous waterfall. Onlookers feared for his life. Miraculously, he came out alive and unharmed downstream at the bottom of the falls. People asked him how he managed to survive.

“I accommodated myself to the water, not the water to me. Without thinking, I allowed myself to be shaped by it. Plunging into the swirl, I came out with the swirl. This is how I survived.”

.................

Power does not corrupt.

Usurpery corrupts.
Dictatorship corrupts.

.

No matter how much power I gain
If I stand before the sea
It will not stop flowing
Power is worthless
It is a quick cheap fix
One that requires constant repleshment

The need to tell others who & how they "must" BE(have)
corrupts the natural current of the Individual's freedom to creativity.

.

water will flow, no matter how it is restrained
The only limits that exist are ourselves

Power is the ability to create, to do, to act,
to give personal meaning and form to life.

You don't "get" power...
you give RISE to the power that is your very BEing.
(should you choose to recognize and REALize it)

.

there is nothign to gain
nothign to realise
no place to go
no path
no journey
no destination
nothing to create
no chicken to stroke
no goat to love

I am control and the uncontrollable. I am the union and the dissolution. I am the abiding and I am the dissolution. I am the one below, and they come up to me. I am the judgment and the acquittal. I, I am sinless, and the root of sin derives from me. I am lust in (outward) appearance, and interior self-control exists within me. I am the hearing which is attainable to everyone and the speech which cannot be grasped. I am a mute who does not speak, and great is my multitude of words.


--Thunder the Perfect Mind

 

[Mr Cheese]

People who rob OTHERS of their own respective Self Empowerment,
in a play to "control" everyone (and everything)
they are the ones who go insane.

control is an illusion, those also think they have power
If I say to the sea "Stop" it is the sea
It will not listen to me...

Seek not to distance yourself from those that have contrained you, and in doing so, BECOME the very beings that have COMMANDED you....

He who has known that all beings have become one with his own self, and he who has seen the oneness of existence, what sorrow and what delusion can overwhelm him?

He has occupied all. He is radiant, without body (incorporeal), without injury, without muscles, pure, untouched by evil. He is the seer, thinker, all pervading, self-existent, has distributed various objects, through endless years, each according to it’s inherent nature.
–Isa Upanishad

……………………………………………….

The highest good is like water;
Water is good at benefiting the ten thousand things and yet It does not compete with them.


It dwells in places the masses of people detest, Therefore it is close to the Way.

In dwelling, the good thing is the land;
In the mind, the good thing is depth;
In giving, the good thing is being like Heaven;

In speaking, the good thing is sincerity;

In governing, the good thing is order;

In affairs, the good thing is ability;

In activity, the good thing is timeliness.
It is only because it does not compete, that therefore it
is without fault.
–Tao Te Ching

“True will is participation in Divine Will. True awareness is participation in Divine Mind. True life is actually participation in Divine Life. We don’t own them, we only participate.

If I am not the owner of will and consciousness, only a participant, then who am I?
The truth is that the self is the most elusive, most difficult to cognize. Why is this so? Because the self is that which is seeing. The eyes cannot see themselves.”



- David Aaron (Seeing God: Ten Life-Changing Lessons of the Kabbalah)



All beings by nature are Buddha,
as ice by nature is water;
apart from water there is no ice,
apart from beings,
no Buddha.

–Hakuin

 

[Mr Cheese]

Almost forgot,
by Christian standards,
shouldn't jesus then be the most insane of them all?

Where did jesus keep getting his 'power fix'?

jesus renounced worldly power in the desert
when confronted by satan

 

[John D]

Almost forgot,
by Christian standards,
shouldn't jesus then be the most insane of them all?

Where did jesus keep getting his 'power fix'?

The way he see things - The Mystery, the Mystic.
Jesus the Son of Man" By Khalil Gibran

Mary Magdalene: On Meeting Jesus For The First Time
It was in the month of June when I saw Him for the first time. He was walking in the wheat field when I passed by with my handmaidens, and He was alone.
The rhythm of His steps was different from other men's, and the movement of His body was like naught I had seen before.
Men do not pace the earth in that manner. And even now I do not know whether He walked fast or slow.
My handmaidens pointed their fingers at Him and spoke in shy whispers to one another. And I stayed my steps for a moment, and raised my hand to hail Him. But He did not turn His face, and He did not look at me. And I hated Him. I was swept back into myself, and I was as cold as if I had been in a snow-drift. And I shivered.
That night I beheld Him in my dreaming; and they told me afterward that I screamed in my sleep and was restless upon my bed.
It was in the month of August that I saw Him again, through my window. He was sitting in the shadow of the cypress tree across my garden, and He was still as if He had been carved out of stone, like the statues in Antioch and other cities of the North Country.
And my slave, the Egyptian, came to me and said, "That man is here again. He is sitting there across your garden."
And I gazed at Him, and my soul quivered within me, for He was beautiful.
His body was single and each part seemed to love every other part.
Then I clothed myself with raiment of Damascus, and I left my house and walked towards Him.
Was it my aloneness, or was it His fragrance, that drew me to Him? Was it a hunger in my eyes that desired comeliness, or was it His beauty that sought the light of my eyes?
Even now I do not know.
I walked to Him with my scented garments and my golden sandals, the sandals the Roman captain had given me, even these sandals. And when I reached Him, I said, "Good-morrow to you."
And He said, "Good-morrow to you, Miriam."
And He looked at me, and His night-eyes saw me as no man had seen me. And suddenly I was as if naked, and I was shy.
Yet He had only said, "Good-morrow to you."
And then I said to Him, "Will you not come to my house?"
And He said, "Am I not already in your house?"
I did not know what He meant then, but I know now.
And I said, "Will you not have wine and bread with me?"
And He said, "Yes, Miriam, but not now."
Not now, not now, He said. And the voice of the sea was in those two words, and the voice of the wind and the trees. And when He said them unto me, life spoke to death.
For mind you, my friend, I was dead. I was a woman who had divorced her soul. I was living apart from this self which you now see. I belonged to all men, and to none. They called me harlot, and a woman possessed of seven devils. I was cursed, and I was envied.
But when His dawn-eyes looked into my eyes all the stars of my night faded away, and I became Miriam, only Miriam, a woman lost to the earth she had known, and finding herself in new places.
And now again I said to Him, "Come into my house and share bread and wine with me."
And He said, "Why do you bid me to be your guest?"
And I said, "I beg you to come into my house." And it was all that was sod in me, and all that was sky in me calling unto Him. Then He looked at me, and the noontide of His eyes was upon me, and He said, "You have many lovers, and yet I alone love you. Other men love themselves in your nearness. I love you in your self. Other men see a beauty in you that shall fade away sooner than their own years. But I see in you a beauty that shall not fade away, and in the autumn of your days that beauty shall not be afraid to gaze at itself in the mirror, and it shall not be offended.
"I alone love the unseen in you."
Then He said in a low voice, "Go away now. If this cypress tree is yours and you would not have me sit in its shadow, I will walk my way."
And I cried to Him and I said, "Master, come to my house. I have incense to burn for you, and a silver basin for your feet. You are a stranger and yet not a stranger. I entreat you, come to my house." Then He stood up and looked at me even as the seasons might look down upon the field, and He smiled. And He said again: "All men love you for themselves. I love you for yourself."
And then He walked away. [FONT=Arial,Arial]But no other man ever walked the way He walked. Was it a breath born in my garden that moved to the east? Or was it a storm that would shake all things to their foundations?
I knew not, but on that day the sunset of His eyes slew the dragon in me, and I became a woman, I became Miriam, Miriam of Mijdel.
[/FONT]

 

[blackout]

Jesus weilded power.
Weather you believe the story literally or not,
his character weilded power to such a degree,
people called his power "miraculous".

And then there is the whole power of the holy spirit thing.

Honesly Mr. Cheese, you don't sound like a Christian either.
(by "normal" lord and savior standards)

Jesus refined his Will out in the desert.

If you can make bread the traditional way
there is no need to weild the magical transformation of rocks.
Very similar concept to Setian initiation actually.

Power & "magic" is a beautiful thing,
and it is to be used and handled with the greatest care.
Not stupidly, imaturely,
and not to control or laud over others with.

 

[blackout]

Ok. I find this brand of mysticism unappealing.

I'm sorry I wasted your time.
But the point of Religious Forums is Religious Education.

Something unfinished,
just laid itself to rest.

 

[laughing marmot]

I think that most Christian mystics look for the deeper meaning in the gospel stories, without concerning themselves too much about if they really happened. For instance, Jesus feeding 5,000+ people with 5 loaves & 2 fish & then having left-overs is a sign of the abundance of blessings, physical & spiritual, that are available to everyone in God's kingdom.

Personally, I feel that magic is happening around me all the time, as schmaltzy as that sounds. Everytime a flock of geese flies overhead, or I see the sunshine reflected in the dew, or I hear the happy gurgle or a baby I think, ah, magic!

 

[Mr Cheese]

I think that most Christian mystics look for the deeper meaning in the gospel stories, without concerning themselves too much about if they really happened. For instance, Jesus feeding 5,000+ people with 5 loaves & 2 fish & then having left-overs is a sign of the abundance of blessings, physical & spiritual, that are available to everyone in God's kingdom.

Personally, I feel that magic is happening around me all the time, as schmaltzy as that sounds. Everytime a flock of geese flies overhead, or I see the sunshine reflected in the dew, or I hear the happy gurgle or a baby I think, ah, magic!

UV is discussing ritual magic though...

 

[LoTrobador]

UV is discussing ritual magic though...

Is she? I think what she means by Magic is more akin to mana or barakah than to Western Ceremonial Magic (or even to siddhi), and I don't think she's suggesting that it's a mystic's goal or the sole (or even the main) point of focus, but rather that a mystic naturally, by the virtue of the spiritual developement, attains it and simply is able (not 'should' or 'will', but 'is able') to use it.

 

[blackout]

Is she? I think what she means by Magic is more akin to mana or barakah than to Western Ceremonial Magic (or even to siddhi), and I don't think she's suggesting that it's a mystic's goal or the sole (or even the main) point of focus, but rather that a mystic naturally, by the virtue of the spiritual developement, attains it and simply is able (not 'should' or 'will', but 'is able') to use it.

Thank you LoTrobador.
I am speaking of all, and any magic actually.

There is the magic/k you do without doing also.
ie... you just do it.

You pick up a thing as a seer....
and you see a thing there...
and you turn it... purposefully...
and it changes the whole perspective of your reality.

And things around you begin to transform.
(the Kingdom comes without perception)

My ritual magic looks nothing like your pics btw Mr. Cheese.
(if you only knew. )

 

[blackout]

Is fasting in the desert for 40 days
not a ritual act in a purposfully chosen ritual spot/enviornment?

Just imagine the reality shift a 40 day fast would cause.

 

[blackout]

I suppose I should explain
that for the sake of this thread
I'm really going back inside mySelf
and my life altering 'Mystical" experience
of .... 5 years? ago.

I was still using christian symbolisms,
as well as the Kingdom teachings of jesus
to 'explain'/'define'/'name'
an experience that was beyond explaination, definition and labels.

This Christian interpretation was the only one
that could possibly have fit what I was experiencing.
Or else I would have had to throw out my christianity altogether.
But really, it worked for me.
I found later however, that there was not another single christian around
that my interpretation worked for.
Yet there was no other interpretation I could use.
So yes, in the end, i threw out christianity altogether.

But i guess, i still LIKE my interpretation,
and I keep hoping someone else will get it.
I don't know why.
It really doesn't matter anymore.
But still the topic interests me.

If only I could effectively communicate my epiphany & paradigm shift.
But it is not possible.

Anyway, I did not come in here to discuss "ritual magick' persay,
but to discuss my own personal mystical experience of christianity.
No one ever gets it though.
One day i will just give it up for good I suppose.

 

[Mr Cheese]

Is she? I think what she means by Magic is more akin to mana or barakah than to Western Ceremonial Magic (or even to siddhi), and I don't think she's suggesting that it's a mystic's goal or the sole (or even the main) point of focus, but rather that a mystic naturally, by the virtue of the spiritual developement, attains it and simply is able (not 'should' or 'will', but 'is able') to use it.

obviously you are not familiar with the "LHP"



here....

The Temple of Set was established in 1975 by Lt. Colonel of the US Army Michael A. Aquino and certain members of the priesthood of the Church of Satan[1], who left because of administrative and philosophical disagreements with its founder, and, as Aquino said, because he was disgusted at the corruption within the Church of Satan.[1] The Temple of Set was incorporated in California that same year as a nonprofit church. [2]
While Aquino remains an active member of the Temple of Set, he no longer holds any office within the organization. The office of High Priest is currently held by Magistra Patricia Hardy, who succeeded Aquino in 2004



Conversely, the "Left-Hand Path" belief systems value the advancement and preservation of the self, as well as the pursuit of physical goals. These goals are often achieved either by seeking the guidance of one or more deities (or archetypes of deities) via ritualistic practices, or more commonly, via non-theistic uses of instincts and logic.

Although some sects value proximity to the divine, most followers of Left-Hand Path belief systems seek to become divinities in their own right or behold themselves as such already.



.................



The path of the mystic is of course the exact opposite


But you know...I don't wish to offend
so I'll leave it at that, if you seek to misunderstand, at least I have tried...

 

[Mr Cheese]

Is fasting in the desert for 40 days
not a ritual act in a purposfully chosen ritual spot/enviornment?

Just imagine the reality shift a 40 day fast would cause.

no a fast is not a ritual
in the sense of LHP rituals....
perhaps you are unaware of this?

Ritual in this sense involves what is called "ritual pattern making"



40 of course is a specific number, a number of maturity, one that is repeated in Judaism

 

[John D]

Ok. I find this brand of mysticism unappealing.

I'm sorry I wasted your time.
But the point of Religious Forums is Religious Education.

Something unfinished,
just laid itself to rest.

That is why it is such a beatiful thing. Very few traffic on the paths !
And Yes, it is "unfinished" - because the journey goes on.
I differ from CHEESY in the sense that - for me- to seek is the path of mysticism.
And it satisfy my soul.
It is not as easy as it sounds, because all this a"airy fairy" words and thoughts do nothing for you. You can quote as many dead man as you want, you haven't step on the pathways yet.
I don't want anybody to "join" me on this roads,no. I like the solitude to much for that!.
But it is a way to get some questions answered, although most often you don't like the answers.
There is nothing you gain ,for yourself, on this pathways. Only things that you must give away to others. There is no power, no status.
If you find it - it must be given away immediatly.
I just love the View.................

 

[John D]

I suppose I should explain
that for the sake of this thread
I'm really going back inside mySelf
and my life altering 'Mystical" experience
of .... 5 years? ago.

I was still using christian symbolisms,
as well as the Kingdom teachings of jesus
to 'explain'/'define'/'name'
an experience that was beyond explaination, definition and labels.

This Christian interpretation was the only one
that could possibly have fit what I was experiencing.
Or else I would have had to throw out my christianity altogether.
But really, it worked for me.
I found later however, that there was not another single christian around
that my interpretation worked for.
Yet there was no other interpretation I could use.
So yes, in the end, i threw out christianity altogether.

But i guess, i still LIKE my interpretation,
and I keep hoping someone else will get it.
I don't know why.
It really doesn't matter anymore.
But still the topic interests me.

If only I could effectively communicate my epiphany & paradigm shift.
But it is not possible.

Anyway, I did not come in here to discuss "ritual magick' persay,
but to discuss my own personal mystical experience of christianity.
No one ever gets it though.
One day i will just give it up for good I suppose.

Why ??
Is it because you wanted people to be impressed by it ?
It should bring you in a closer relationship with God, and the good that it do must be hidden to other people - you must not be known or acknowledged as the "do -gooder".

Christian Mysticism starts at the cross, enter through the empty burial grotto into the Kingdom unseen, covered by a darkness that no man or seer can penetrate. Fear will fill your soul till it overflows, then the Spirit will take you to the first pathway - then you start to seek.
You must stay blind though, because when enlightenment fill your senses you will plan you journey, and you will get lost.
Why choose to do something that has no personal gain ?
Because I choose to!
And because I am drawn inwards,inwards,inwards. as by a Power so great that it cannot be denied.
What is going to happen when I reach the Centre of Power - I have no Idea !!