TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
So the other day I was scrolling on youtube and came accross this clip making the case for how Christianity was actually a Roman invention to fight jewish "terrorists" with psyOps propaganda.
For reference, and/or those interested:
First time I heared about this hypothesis. No idea if it is a new idea or not. I haven't even bothered looking at when this was posted or when they came up with this idea. Considering I haven't heared about it before, I'm going to go ahead and assume for the time being that their ideas hadn't gotten much traction (yet?) within the scientific community.
I'm not going to take a position on this one yet either. I feel like reading up first. Primarily, I would like to hear to the counter arguments, if there are any, from their working peers. For now, since I just discovered it this weekend, I have only seen/heared the "pro" arguments.
But I have to say, I think it's very intriguing.
At first I was like "meh, another conspiracy clip, yadda yadda".
But as I watched and picked up some things and seeing the connections they made between the gospels and the writings of Josephus in the biogafies of the flavian emperors.... I gotta say, it DID make a lot of sense to me. Assuming the points they made concerning the writings of josephus are actually accurate (that his texts about vespasian and titus indeed say what they say in the clips that it says), then I surely agree that there are quite a few.... uncanny coincidence. So uncanny that it would indeed make a LOT more sense if the gospels were actually written by the flavian propaganda machine.
Apparantly, once you view the gospels through that lens... not only do the gospels suddenly make a lot more sense... But they also provide a very plausible information how it is that a "pacifist" messiah, who said things like "render unto ceasar what belongs to ceasar" and "turn the other cheek", eventually "won" the "messiah" search over other more confrontational / military leaders that the "terrorists" jews in that period were actively looking for.
Considering the known history of the wars of Flavius Vespasian and Titus in Judea against jewish rebels and zealots, one can see how "pacifying" the jews would play into the hands of these emperors.
Considering also how it is known that these emperors destroyed jewish temples and stole the OT scripture scrolls, while burning the others, and took those back to Rome along with Josephus (a capture jew and thus very familiar with that scripture) who later got adopted as "flavious josephus" and who became instrumental in their propaganda machine and who wrote their biographies....
We know that if they wanted to, they had all the tools they required to actually make up stories of a jewish messiah, written specifically to match the requirements of the prophecies of the OT.
What's more striking....
Is how the story of Jesus in the gospels apparantly seems to be following, in sequence, the military campaigns of Titus. Long story short of that part, is that the gospels are written with jesus being Titus and "god the father" being Titus' father Vespasian.
Then there's also the early church, the first bishops and the first "saints".
The pope's title of Pontificus Maximus, was also the title of the roman high priest in their pagan religion.
The first bishops and saints were Flavians.
The first saint ever, was a Flavian.
So it's not even only connections withing the contents of the gospels. Even the early church is "infested" with flavian influence and people. The early church leaders, were flavians.
There's a lot of detail I left out here off course. Writing up the "entire" thesis would take several books probably.
Again, I remain sceptical, even only for the fact that I haven't heared about this before while the idea strikes me as relatively old (considering the clips - for some reason that doesn't feel like "recorded in 2018") and the fact that it doesn't seem to have taken up much traction in the "mainstream" (otherwise, it would be common knowledge).
Nevertheless, taken at face value, it DOES strike me as the most plausible "jesus myth hypothesis" I have ever heared. It does sound like it makes a lot of sense.
So I'll definatly be digging deeper into this. And primarily, I'ld like to read the counterarguments, if there are any, from mainstream peers who disagree.
So, has anyone here ever heared of this hypothesis? If yes, what do you think about it?
For reference, and/or those interested:
First time I heared about this hypothesis. No idea if it is a new idea or not. I haven't even bothered looking at when this was posted or when they came up with this idea. Considering I haven't heared about it before, I'm going to go ahead and assume for the time being that their ideas hadn't gotten much traction (yet?) within the scientific community.
I'm not going to take a position on this one yet either. I feel like reading up first. Primarily, I would like to hear to the counter arguments, if there are any, from their working peers. For now, since I just discovered it this weekend, I have only seen/heared the "pro" arguments.
But I have to say, I think it's very intriguing.
At first I was like "meh, another conspiracy clip, yadda yadda".
But as I watched and picked up some things and seeing the connections they made between the gospels and the writings of Josephus in the biogafies of the flavian emperors.... I gotta say, it DID make a lot of sense to me. Assuming the points they made concerning the writings of josephus are actually accurate (that his texts about vespasian and titus indeed say what they say in the clips that it says), then I surely agree that there are quite a few.... uncanny coincidence. So uncanny that it would indeed make a LOT more sense if the gospels were actually written by the flavian propaganda machine.
Apparantly, once you view the gospels through that lens... not only do the gospels suddenly make a lot more sense... But they also provide a very plausible information how it is that a "pacifist" messiah, who said things like "render unto ceasar what belongs to ceasar" and "turn the other cheek", eventually "won" the "messiah" search over other more confrontational / military leaders that the "terrorists" jews in that period were actively looking for.
Considering the known history of the wars of Flavius Vespasian and Titus in Judea against jewish rebels and zealots, one can see how "pacifying" the jews would play into the hands of these emperors.
Considering also how it is known that these emperors destroyed jewish temples and stole the OT scripture scrolls, while burning the others, and took those back to Rome along with Josephus (a capture jew and thus very familiar with that scripture) who later got adopted as "flavious josephus" and who became instrumental in their propaganda machine and who wrote their biographies....
We know that if they wanted to, they had all the tools they required to actually make up stories of a jewish messiah, written specifically to match the requirements of the prophecies of the OT.
What's more striking....
Is how the story of Jesus in the gospels apparantly seems to be following, in sequence, the military campaigns of Titus. Long story short of that part, is that the gospels are written with jesus being Titus and "god the father" being Titus' father Vespasian.
Then there's also the early church, the first bishops and the first "saints".
The pope's title of Pontificus Maximus, was also the title of the roman high priest in their pagan religion.
The first bishops and saints were Flavians.
The first saint ever, was a Flavian.
So it's not even only connections withing the contents of the gospels. Even the early church is "infested" with flavian influence and people. The early church leaders, were flavians.
There's a lot of detail I left out here off course. Writing up the "entire" thesis would take several books probably.
Again, I remain sceptical, even only for the fact that I haven't heared about this before while the idea strikes me as relatively old (considering the clips - for some reason that doesn't feel like "recorded in 2018") and the fact that it doesn't seem to have taken up much traction in the "mainstream" (otherwise, it would be common knowledge).
Nevertheless, taken at face value, it DOES strike me as the most plausible "jesus myth hypothesis" I have ever heared. It does sound like it makes a lot of sense.
So I'll definatly be digging deeper into this. And primarily, I'ld like to read the counterarguments, if there are any, from mainstream peers who disagree.
So, has anyone here ever heared of this hypothesis? If yes, what do you think about it?
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