Charlottesville: It's about the 1st Amendment

[icehorse]

Guys..

I hear lots of hand-wringing and finger pointing. Our president is ham-handed and horrible. Bad things happened. The alt-right is a problem.

But the left and the media are the bigger threat!!!!!!

The left and the media are HUGE, and they are ignoring the 1st amendment. Long after this weekend is forgotten, the 1st amendment is what will keep us safe. Keep the 1st amendment front and center, and notice how infrequently it comes up as Charlottesville is discussed.

 

[Revoltingest]

I say it relates to free speech, but it's not about the 1st Amendment.
Where's the government imposed infringement?

 

[Tumah]

I hope you don't mind that the threat to my life that Charelottesville represents bother me somewhat more than the preservation of their freedom of voice.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

I didn't realize the 1st amendment protected the right to run over other people with a car.

 

[leibowde84]

Guys..

I hear lots of hand-wringing and finger pointing. Our president is ham-handed and horrible. Bad things happened. The alt-right is a problem.

But the left and the media are the bigger threat!!!!!!

The left and the media are HUGE, and they are ignoring the 1st amendment. Long after this weekend is forgotten, the 1st amendment is what will keep us safe. Keep the 1st amendment front and center, and notice how infrequently it comes up as Charlottesville is discussed.

See, this is a straw man. No one is denying the fact that the white supremacists had a right to protest. But, every time they do, it is our responsibility to challenge and ridicule them. They were using intimidation tactics and inciting violence. Both of which should not be left unchallenged.

If the counter-protesters started the violence (which all evidence points to them not having done so), it would be different. But, the white supremacists brought semi-automatic rifles, fatigues, and used language that would knowingly incite violence.

The media is doing a fantastic job holding our President accountable for every word he says. It isn't hard for him to just say ... "violence on all sides is horrible, but one side was committing violence based on racism and racists are despicable, evil, unamerican idiots who are disgusting and unwelcome in our country. Legally they are allowed to stay, but they are not welcome."

 

[leibowde84]

I say it relates to free speech, but it's not about the 1st Amendment.
Where's the government imposed infringement?

Very good point.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Guys..

I hear lots of hand-wringing and finger pointing. Our president is ham-handed and horrible. Bad things happened. The alt-right is a problem.

Okay, you've started off strong...

But the left and the media are the bigger threat!!!!!!

And you tripped and fell in the mud. How on earth are "the left and the media the bigger threat"? We had neo-Nazis marching through Charlottesville attacking, injuring and killing people. The ****ing neo-Nazis literally murdered someone and you're engaging in drole whataboutery. There is no equivalence to be found here, try as you might. It is the M.O. of white supremacists to subjugate and enslave or destroy everyone who doesn't look or think like them. That is literally their only purpose. And they've now got supporters in the White House. The ****ing White House. The very tip-top of the American Government. Trump's administration has even gone so far as to end funding for an organisation that rehabilitates former neo-Nazis back into society. Do you honestly think Antifa are a threat compared to this? This is collusion; it's planned!

When people fight back against an ideology which calls loudly and clearly for their destruction you get all relativist and say 'they were bad too'. **** this relativism shtick. Punching Nazis is as American as the NBA. Antifa is short for anti-fascist which is what Americans were during World War 2.

And finally: legal speech =/= moral speech.

The left and the media are HUGE, and they are ignoring the 1st amendment. Long after this weekend is forgotten, the 1st amendment is what will keep us safe. Keep the 1st amendment front and center, and notice how infrequently it comes up as Charlottesville is discussed.

And this right here is why America still has such a horrendous problem with racism 50 years after the Civil Rights Movement. You normalise it, you give it voice in mainstream society and you treat it as legitimate. You allow its proponents access to the corridors of power all the way up to the White House. It's the same reason why other anti-intellectual beliefs like geocentricism and Flat-Earth proponents are experiencing a resurgence. You hold opposing positions as having the same value regardless of their actual veracity and truth-value.

 

[leibowde84]

Guys..

I hear lots of hand-wringing and finger pointing. Our president is ham-handed and horrible. Bad things happened. The alt-right is a problem.

But the left and the media are the bigger threat!!!!!!

The left and the media are HUGE, and they are ignoring the 1st amendment. Long after this weekend is forgotten, the 1st amendment is what will keep us safe. Keep the 1st amendment front and center, and notice how infrequently it comes up as Charlottesville is discussed.

The 1st amendment doesn't protect White Supremacists from the media. How was their 1st Amendment rights violated by governmental infringement?

 

[leibowde84]

Guys..

I hear lots of hand-wringing and finger pointing. Our president is ham-handed and horrible. Bad things happened. The alt-right is a problem.

But the left and the media are the bigger threat!!!!!!

The left and the media are HUGE, and they are ignoring the 1st amendment. Long after this weekend is forgotten, the 1st amendment is what will keep us safe. Keep the 1st amendment front and center, and notice how infrequently it comes up as Charlottesville is discussed.

I think a bigger threat is racism. And, by racism I mean anyone who feels that the product of more equality, namely that white people will lose influence/power and privilege as a result of it, is unfair. That is because, in essence, they are thinking that white people deserve more power, influence and privilege. It's sad how many there are in this country who feel that way.

 

[fantome profane]

Guys..

I hear lots of hand-wringing and finger pointing. Our president is ham-handed and horrible. Bad things happened. The alt-right is a problem.

But the left and the media are the bigger threat!!!!!!

The left and the media are HUGE, and they are ignoring the 1st amendment. Long after this weekend is forgotten, the 1st amendment is what will keep us safe. Keep the 1st amendment front and center, and notice how infrequently it comes up as Charlottesville is discussed.

How did the first amendment keep Heather Heyer safe?

I absolutely support the 1st amendment and support the right of even the KKK and Nazis to speak and have demonstrations. But in this case, you are missing the point. This has nothing to do with the 1st amendment. The first amendment does not protect vehicular homicide.

 

[Revoltingest]

Very good point.

So's your mother!
You vile.....uh....wait.....you agree?
Never mind!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I didn't realize the 1st amendment protected the right to run over other people with a car.

According to many on the Right, the 1st gives one permission to metaphorically run over the rights of others with a car, just so long as you're being religious about it. Of course actually running over people with a car is unacceptable, but ultimately neo-Nazis and white supremacists have no room to declare their hateful ideology has any right or business deciding and steering policy and legislation. Unfortunately though, Trump's "win" empowered those sorts of people, and large amounts of US voters were too stupid to have the foresight to see such things would happen.

The left and the media are HUGE, and they are ignoring the 1st amendment.

A small section of the Left does it over hurt feelings, a larger portion of the Right does it ignoring the part that says "make no laws respecting the establishment of religion." And how is the media ignoring the First when so many sources perpetuate false news and information?

 

[leibowde84]

Guys..

I hear lots of hand-wringing and finger pointing. Our president is ham-handed and horrible. Bad things happened. The alt-right is a problem.

But the left and the media are the bigger threat!!!!!!

The left and the media are HUGE, and they are ignoring the 1st amendment. Long after this weekend is forgotten, the 1st amendment is what will keep us safe. Keep the 1st amendment front and center, and notice how infrequently it comes up as Charlottesville is discussed.

Two questions:

1. The first amendment includes freedom of the press, so if White Supremacist/Nationalist groups are free to express their bigoted views, shouldn't the press be free to ridicule them? And, shouldn't the press be free to ridicule the President if he refuses to condemn them as being the problem?

2. If the White Supremacists/Nationalists are free to express themselves, shouldn't the counter-protesters be free to stick up for black people, immigrants and Jews? Are you really trying to say that the press shouldn't ridicule a group of protesters who had a torch-lit rally where they were spewing slogans coined by the Nazis?

Imho, we have a responsibility to stand up to the "brown-shirts". We saw what happened when people were intimidated in the 1930s. It nearly caused the end of Western Civilization. Let's not make the same mistake. Everytime White Supremacists speak, they should be met with extreme ridicule.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

The left and the media are HUGE, and they are ignoring the 1st amendment. Long after this weekend is forgotten, the 1st amendment is what will keep us safe. Keep the 1st amendment front and center, and notice how infrequently it comes up as Charlottesville is discussed.

I just want to zero in on this paragraph; particularly the bit I've highlighted.

Do you honestly think normalising neo-Nazis and white supremacists - people who call for the death and/or subjugation of everyone who doesn't look or think like them - and their horrendous views will keep blacks, Jews, Muslims, LGBTs, Mexicans and First Nations people safe?

Who are you trying to convince here? Us or yourself?

 

[suncowiam]

Guys..

I hear lots of hand-wringing and finger pointing. Our president is ham-handed and horrible. Bad things happened. The alt-right is a problem.

But the left and the media are the bigger threat!!!!!!

The left and the media are HUGE, and they are ignoring the 1st amendment. Long after this weekend is forgotten, the 1st amendment is what will keep us safe. Keep the 1st amendment front and center, and notice how infrequently it comes up as Charlottesville is discussed.

How did you conclude that the left and the media are a "bigger threat?"

I'll agree that the extreme right and the extreme left are bad. I'll agree that a corrupted media that purposely spews out false news is bad.

You're generalizing and jumping to conclusions.

 

[Valjean]

Guys..
I hear lots of hand-wringing and finger pointing. Our president is ham-handed and horrible. Bad things happened. The alt-right is a problem.

But the left and the media are the bigger threat!!!!!!

The left and the media are HUGE, and they are ignoring the 1st amendment. Long after this weekend is forgotten, the 1st amendment is what will keep us safe. Keep the 1st amendment front and center, and notice how infrequently it comes up as Charlottesville is discussed.

I think you've been listening to too much right-wing propaganda. Icehorse.
Whom do the left threaten? The left is a bunch of pusillanimous pussyfooters. We're too nice; too respectful, too tolerant and too hesitant to criticize or put our foot down.

If anyone, it's the right who seem to be implementing a police-surveillance state. It's the right who've transformed our democracy into an oligarchy. It's the right actively undermining our elections. It's the right who would do away with the 1st amendment.

The media? The media are supposed to be the forth estate, they're supposed to shine a light on the machinations of government and industry and keep everyone honest. They're there to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.
But, aside from a handful of investigative journalists -- whose articles rarely find their way into the mainstream American media -- the media are little more than corporate lapdogs. The thousands of independent papers, radio and TV outlets we used to have have been gobbled up by a handful of corporate conglomerates. They're not going to criticize the industries and interests of the conglomerates they work for. They pretty much toe the line and repeat the corporate talking points du jour.

 

[icehorse]

I say it relates to free speech, but it's not about the 1st Amendment.
Where's the government imposed infringement?

I didn't say the government imposed infringement. I said the media is largely ignoring the 1st and the left is largely ignoring or trampling on the 1st. I would say that the local government did a poor job of planning to defend the 1st in this situation.

 

[icehorse]

I hope you don't mind that the threat to my life that Charelottesville represents bother me somewhat more than the preservation of their freedom of voice.

I mind a lot.

Benjamin Franklin said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

 

[icehorse]

How did you conclude that the left and the media are a "bigger threat?"

I'll agree that the extreme right and the extreme left are bad. I'll agree that a corrupted media that purposely spews out false news is bad.

You're generalizing and jumping to conclusions.

It is my opinion that the biggest threat in this situation is the threat to our freedoms. I'm happy to debate that with you, but stow the ad hominems.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

This seems so out of character for you that I had to check to see if this was in the joke section. Are you just seeing what would happen? Trying to get a rise out of people?