Can't be a pagan.

[Guitar's Cry]

he stated what it originally meant, not what it became.

Close enough. The assumption was historically accurate. But, do you see my point about the strict definition of labels not always being all that accurate to the reality of the social phenomena?

 

[Mr Cheese]

Close enough. The assumption was historically accurate. But, do you see my point about the strict definition of labels not always being all that accurate to the reality of the social phenomena?

yes and no.

We can call a tree a goat if we like,
it doesnt mean a tree will eat grass.

But there is a difference between eclectic and syncretic.
Then again I understand most people here are young.

Each to their own.

Do you remeber the website "I hate wiccans.com" created by a wiccan?
It was very informative.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

yes and no.

We can call a tree a goat if we like,
it doesnt mean a tree will eat grass.

But there is a difference between eclectic and syncretic.
Then again I understand most people here are young.

Nor can we call a Christian a Christian and it doesn't mean she will worship Christ.

As I mentioned, paganism is a social movement, and if a single individual is bigger than a label, then a social movement is one big, amalgamated entity that's not easy to pin a definition to.

 

[Mr Cheese]

Nor can we call a Christian a Christian and it doesn't mean she will worship Christ. .

what?

As I mentioned, paganism is a social movement, and if a single individual is bigger than a label, then a social movement is one big, amalgamated entity that's not easy to pin a definition to.

Ok its a social movement....if you say so...

I thought it was a "religious" stance or perspective.

I guess paganism has become a fashion accessory, essentially,is what you are saying? Like goth, punk, emo, crusty, greebo...

I think pagans would have a problem with this idea!!!

but maybe not: Putting the “Pagan” in Pagan Values « Chrysalis

accordign to wiki:
Social movements are a type of group action. They are large informal groupings of individuals and/or organizations focused on specific political or social issues, in other words, on carrying out, resisting or undoing a social change.

Ah so paganism has become a collective group. Ok so obviously we are looking at a very narrow group, the so called neo pagans. We'll forget about anyone before 1960 then....

I fail to see though, that my Pagan "markers" do not apply to pagans as a whole.
If you can provide pagans that are actually outside the markers I gave, then please do so. Otherwise I fail to see the "argument" here....

 

[AlsoAnima]

he stated what it originally meant, not what it became

one online dictionary:

pagan http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pagan c.1375, from L.L. paganus "pagan," in classical L. "villager, rustic, civilian," from pagus "rural district," originally "district limited by markers," thus related to pangere "to fix, fasten," from PIE base *pag- "to fix" (see pact). Religious sense is often said to derive from conservative rural adherence to the old gods after the Christianization of Roman towns and cities; but the word in this sense predates that period in Church history, and it is more likely derived from the use of paganus in Roman military jargon for "civilian, incompetent soldier," which Christians (Tertullian, c.202; Augustine) picked up with the military imagery of the early Church (e.g. milites "soldier of Christ," etc.). Applied to modern pantheists and nature-worshippers from 1908. Paganism is attested from 1433.

Nitpick some more. It's a really endearing quality that makes people appreciate your presence.

 

[painted wolf]

Apparently Pagan is now mainstream enough to start being 'exclusive'... :sarcastic

The joy of organizing your religion is that someone will eventually want to decide who is and who isn't "a true memeber". :slap:

wa:do

 

[Azakel]

Apparently Pagan is now mainstream enough to start being 'exclusive'... :sarcastic

The joy of organizing your religion is that someone will eventually want to decide who is and who isn't "a true memeber". :slap:

wa:do

Yeah even when that someone isn't a Pagan them self.

 

[painted wolf]

ah but they have the ever important... "I used to be" cred... :sarcastic

wa:do

 

[Gentoo]

I used to be Catholic, does that mean that I can tell Catholics if they REALLY are or not?

 

[Azakel]

ah but they have the ever important... "I used to be" cred... :sarcastic

wa:do

Yeah, that all was kind of bothered me. I mean you could define and tell us what kind of Pagan you where, but that doesn't mean all Pagans are like that ^_^

I used to be Catholic, does that mean that I can tell Catholics if they REALLY are or not?

I course you can Sister Gentoo, but that doesn't mean you'll be right ^_^ lol

 

[Anti-thesisofreason]

Nor can we call a Christian a Christian and it doesn't mean she will worship Christ.

As I mentioned, paganism is a social movement, and if a single individual is bigger than a label, then a social movement is one big, amalgamated entity that's not easy to pin a definition to.

What do you mean by social movement?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

What do you mean by social movement?

I mean that it's a group of people that identify with each other, or are identified with each other.

 

[AlsoAnima]

I mean that it's a group of people that identify with each other, or are identified with each other.

That's called a subculture, not a social movement.

 

[Mr Cheese]

Apparently Pagan is now mainstream enough to start being 'exclusive'... :sarcastic

The joy of organizing your religion is that someone will eventually want to decide who is and who isn't "a true memeber". :slap:

wa:do

well I actually got most of my "labels" from a pagan....

author RJ Stewart...who I have "worked" with...

It wasnt meant to be a who's not a pagan..and who is, more a QUICK summary...
that people found objectionable. I understand, pagans in particular like no definition, they like to simply call themselves pagan and well.... thats it. Which is fair enough...

I was simply pointing out some commonilaities....

If it upset someone, then I am sorry...It really wasnt meant to

[FONT=Verdana, Trebuchet MS, Tahoma Regular, Tahoma, Skia, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] Robert John (R J) Stewart was born in Edinburgh, Scotland. His father came from a Gaelic speaking family originally from the Western Highlands. His mother was Welsh, from a Welsh speaking family from the Gower Peninsula in South Wales, with a tradition of singing and playing the Welsh triple-harp. He is known today as a [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Trebuchet MS, Tahoma Regular, Tahoma, Skia, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]compose[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Trebuchet MS, Tahoma Regular, Tahoma, Skia, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]r,[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Trebuchet MS, Tahoma Regular, Tahoma, Skia, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Trebuchet MS, Tahoma Regular, Tahoma, Skia, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] author, and teacher, with 40 books in publication, translated into many languages worldwide. He is widely experienced in theater, film, and television, and is a skilled performer and presenter.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Trebuchet MS, Tahoma Regular, Tahoma, Skia, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]
In 1996 R. J. was admitted to the USA as "resident alien of extraordinary ability", a category awarded only to immigrants of outstanding achievement in the arts or sciences. He now lives in Northern California and in Maryland.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Trebuchet MS, Tahoma Regular, Tahoma, Skia, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Early career

From the late 1960's to the 1980's (as Bob Stewart) he worked with traditional British folk music, medieval music, and his own compositions, playing guitar, cittern, and the unique 70- stringed psaltery. During this period he made several albums of Celtic and original music, and wrote music for theater and media. In 1974 he wrote and recorded theme music for The Hobbit (Decca Records) read by Nicol Williamson.
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Trebuchet MS, Tahoma Regular, Tahoma, Skia, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]
In theater R J wrote music and songs for several major productions in England, and co-founded a theater company, The Avon Touring Co. During the late 1970's and early 1980's he composed and recorded original music for film and television, including working on major feature films, Joseph Andrews directed by Tony Richardson, and The Dark Crystal, directed by Jim Henson. He also composed and recorded original music for a number of BBC radio dramas, and for documentary feature films for the BBC and for ITV. Through these films his music has been heard all over the world, and various artists have recorded his original instrumental pieces and songs. Between 1975 and 1983 R J worked with several well known Irish musicians, making an album of original music with Finbar Furey, and working with Van Morrison, writing and producing Van's recording of the ancient Irish epic, the Cuchullainn saga. The basis for this production was one of R J’s books on Irish mythology, Cuchullainn, published by Firebird book.[/FONT]

 

[Mr Cheese]

ah but they have the ever important... "I used to be" cred... :sarcastic

wa:do

Well Gnosticism is a syncretic religion...
it is an amalgum of many of many views.

Gnostics after all place great emphasis on the divine feminine as do many neo-pagans.
For Gnostics she is Sophia... and despite one detractor's thoughts...to modern and most ancient Gnostics, the "Goddess"
is rather important in Gnosticism

Just to add to my "cred" not that it matters...
I actually grew up in and around Glastonbury in England...
some know it as Avalon......

But I can see some are upset, I'll shut up:flirt:

..........

Hail, Queen of Heaven,
Mother most merciful,
our life, our sweetness, and our hope.
You lead us on this pilgrim journey,
and to you we cry when we seem mired,
in the pain of exile from our true home.
And, gentle Mother Sophia, you soothe our tears.
Turn then, most gracious Advocate, your eyes of mercy toward us,
and bring us into the unity of the Pleroma,
with your heavenly consort, our Lord Jesus Christ.
Amen.


........


Our Father and Mother God,
you are within us all,
and you make all things holy and united,
as you are holy and united, one God living and true.
Your Kingdom come,
your will be done,
which is love to all that lives in the heavens and on the earth.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and let us give our daily bread to those who have none;
and heal our broken spirits,
as we heal and forgive others.
And lead us, through the darkness of your mystical love,
to the light of the pleroma,
Amen.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

That's called a subculture, not a social movement.

Well, a subculture is a social movement, it just operates underneath (so to speak) the majority.

 

[AlsoAnima]

Well, a subculture is a social movement, it just operates underneath (so to speak) the majority.

A Social Movement wishes to bring about a change in society. A subculture is a group of like minded people. They can be the same, but often are not. In the case of Paganism, I would say it is a subculture, and not a social movement. Or if it is, I would very much like to know what change it wants to bring about.

 

[Gentoo]

A Social Movement wishes to bring about a change in society. A subculture is a group of like minded people. They can be the same, but often are not. In the case of Paganism, I would say it is a subculture, and not a social movement. Or if it is, I would very much like to know what change it wants to bring about.

Hehe... That would be interesting, especially since we can't even decide on a definition for ourselves

 

[Guitar's Cry]

A Social Movement wishes to bring about a change in society. A subculture is a group of like minded people. They can be the same, but often are not. In the case of Paganism, I would say it is a subculture, and not a social movement. Or if it is, I would very much like to know what change it wants to bring about.

Sure, if that's how you wish to define them. But I tend to use social movement in the generic way.

 

[AlsoAnima]

Sure, if that's how you wish to define them. But I tend to use social movement in the generic way.

I always figured the generic way would be the most obvious one. "A movement, that is for the benefit of the social sphere." I suppose that could be wrong.

Hehe... That would be interesting, especially since we can't even decide on a definition for ourselves

What you need to do is get rid of those all the people on the edge, those filthy Christian Witches and Gnostics. They're mucking up the show. I'm telling you!