Can you Unravel the Mystery?

[2ndpillar]

I believe cherry picking tends to ignore the parts that are not agreement with your assessment.

Well, the "message" of the kingdom of God, throughout the bible is consistent, and specifically as regarding the "beasts", such as in Daniel, the kingdom of Rome is persistent with respect to the end of the line. The fact that your church is built upon the power of Rome, should send shudders down your leg, but instead, you probably voting for Obama. If you want to point out parts which are in disagreement, other than the "message" of the "enemy" (Mt 13:25), the false prophet Paul, just go for it. Otherwise, vague pronouncements only work for the uniformed and fit in with the Progressive agendas/propaganda.


New American Standard Bible (Mt 13:25)
But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and left.

 

[2ndpillar]

I believe this happens once in a while but unless it is followed up by Jesus coming in the clouds it is not the right one.

You forget that the "son of man" comes "immediately after the tribulation"/"day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32) (Mt 24:29). The signs of the heavens come before the "day of the LORD". The "son of man" comes after. I suggest you actually read the text and figure out the timeline.

 

[101G]

You forget that the "son of man" comes "immediately after the tribulation"/"day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32) (Mt 24:29). The signs of the heavens come before the "day of the LORD". The "son of man" comes after. I suggest you actually read the text and figure out the timeline.

ERROR, (Joel 2:31-32) and (Mt 24:29) has nothing to do with each other., both are two different setting. as a matter of fact, the Son of Man came in his kingdom on the day of Pentecost. per Joel 2:28-32, in Spirit, and in POWER. (Mt 24:29) is yet to come.

101G.

 

[2ndpillar]

ERROR, (Joel 2:31-32) and (Mt 24:29) has nothing to do with each other., both are two different setting. as a matter of fact, the Son of Man came in his kingdom on the day of Pentecost. per Joel 2:28-32, in Spirit, and in POWER. (Mt 24:29) is yet to come.

101G.

Joel 2:31-32, is about the "day of the LORD" whereas those "on Mount Zion and Jerusalem there will be those who escape/survivors". "At that time, I will restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, and I will gather all the nations to the valley of judgment" (Joel 3:1-2). That would be "Har-Magedon", the valley north of Jerusalem, where the last battle happened in 1918, whereas the Germans (Kaiser/Caesar) (iron) and Ottomans (clay) were crushed, setting up the takeover of Judea by the Zionist. Jerusalem was not restored until after WWII, in 1948, after the Germans along with their allies were crushed again. The "day of the LORD" is when the "LORD" brings the nations against Jerusalem and the nations, as pointed out in Daniel 2:35, and all will be crushed at the same time (Zech 14). The "son of man" comes after the "tribulation" which will be the greatest catastrophe since "the beginning of the world until now, or ever shall be" (Mt 24:21). Either your reading comprehension is stilted, or you haven't actually read the bible, or you over consumed the Kool Aide of your leader, the false prophet Paul, which leads you the down the twisted paths of craziness. The "kingdom of heaven" per Yeshua's "message" of Mt 13:13 & 41-42 happens when "those who commit lawlessness" are cast into the "furnace of fire", which is the "great tribulation" of Mt 24:21, and then the "righteous wil shine forth". (Mt 13:41-42).

Joel 3:1“For behold, in those days and at that time,
When I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem,

2I will gather all the nations
And bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat.
Then I will enter into judgment with them there
On behalf of My people and My inheritance, Israel,
Whom they have scattered among the nations;
And they have divided up My land.

Zech 14: 1 Behold, a day is coming for the LORD when the spoil taken from you will be divided among you. 2For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city. 3Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle.

 

[Brian2]

I believe this happens once in a while but unless it is followed up by Jesus coming in the clouds it is not the right one.

It would have to happen just after the great tribulation also.

 

[YoursTrue]

A pagan Goddess.

Just wondering how you came to that conclusion.

 

[Brian2]

I'm confused.
Christ's coming will happen before that generation that sees all the signs dies out.
The generation that seen ALL the signs is the generation that will be around when Jesus returns.

Which generation? Can you explain what is that generation, and how long that generation is?

Maybe if you tell me what your idea is of that generation and what generation it is and how long it is, otherwise we go backwards and forwards and I don't see your point.
To me it means that the generation that sees Jesus return will have see all the other signs also.
So I keep posting this passage because it defines the generation that Jesus was talking about.
Matt 24:32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

If a generation can look back and say "Yes we have seen all those signs in our generation", that means that Jesus will be coming before that generation dies out.

 

[syo]

Just wondering how you came to that conclusion.

The Bible is about Gods.

 

[2ndpillar]

The Bible is about Gods.

The Law and the prophets is about the coming "kingdom of God", whereas the gods sired by the "serpents"/"devil", heavenly watchers, became gods in contest with the God of heaven, whereas the "Lord God" gave the kingdom over the "beasts" to "execute" his purpose (Rev 17:17), which was laid out in Daniel 2:44-45, whereas the "authority" of the "beasts" comes from the "dragon"/"devil" (Rev 13:4). Yeshua's message was about he coming "kingdom of heaven", whereas those who "commit lawlessness" will be gathered together and thrown into the "furnace of fire" (Mt 13:25-50).

Matthew 13:38 and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one; 39and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels. 40“So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. 41“The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

New King James Version Revelation 13:4
So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”

New American Standard Bible Rev 17:17
For God has put it in their hearts to execute His purpose by having a common purpose, and by giving their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God will be fulfilled.

 

[3rdAngel]

On her forehead was written a name, a mystery: “Babylon the Great, the mother of the prostitutes and of the disgusting things of the earth.”
Revelation 17:5​

Notable features

Babylon the Great is described as​

• the great prostitute
• sitting on many waters,
• committed sexual immorality with the kings of the earth
• making earth’s inhabitants drunk with the wine of her sexual immorality
• sitting on a scarlet-colored wild beast
• clothed in purple and scarlet
• adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls
• having in her hand a golden cup that was full of disgusting things and the unclean things of her sexual immorality
• the mother of the prostitutes and of the disgusting things of the earth
• drunk with the blood of the holy ones and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus
• the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth

Additional clues to unravel the mystery

• (Revelation 17:9-13) 9 The seven heads mean seven mountains, where the woman sits on top. 10 And there are seven kings: Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet arrived; but when he does arrive, he must remain a short while. 11 And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also an eighth king, but it springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction. 12 “The ten horns that you saw mean ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings for one hour with the wild beast. 13 These have one thought, so they give their power and authority to the wild beast.
• (Revelation 17:15) . . .“The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.
• (Revelation 18:3) . . .the merchants of the earth became rich owing to the power of her shameless luxury. . .
• (Revelation 18:5) . . .her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind. . .
• (Revelation 18:7) . . .she glorified herself and lived in shameless luxury. . . she keeps saying in her heart: ‘I sit as queen, and I am not a widow, and I will never see mourning. 
• (Revelation 18:22-23) 22 . . .the sound of singers who accompany themselves on the harp, of musicians, of flutists, and of trumpeters will never be heard in you again. And no craftsman who practices any trade will ever be found in you again, and no sound of a millstone will ever be heard in you again. 23 No light of a lamp will ever shine in you again, and no voice of a bridegroom and of a bride will ever be heard in you again; for your merchants were the top-ranking men of the earth, and by your spiritistic practices all the nations were misled.

What is the identity of Babylon the Great?
These features, and references leaves us in no doubt! The Mother Harlot, Babylon the Great can be nothing other than religion. Notably, since she has God's displeasure, she has to be false religion. This is supported by the warning God gives... “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues. For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind. . . (Revelation 18:4-5)

Thus, keeping in consistency with scripture, Babylon the Great represents all religion that is false from God's perspective.
What else can it be, based on scriptural references?

You know much of what you have posted here is correct. Although the Mother harlot specifically represents the Roman Catholic Church (not the people but the teachings and system) and her harlot daughters that have come out of here represent apostate Protestantism that have departed God and His Word. God has poeple in all the Church's but is calling us out from following man-made teachings and traditions back to worship Him in Spirit and in truth according to His Word (see John 10:16; John 4:23-24; Revelation 17:1-5; Revelation 18:1-5). Thanks for sharing.

 

[YoursTrue]

The Bible is about Gods.

There is only one God who is supreme over all. Including those others considered as 'gods.' Which can include angels and people, depending upon usage. And, of course, the Bible speaks of false 'gods.' No matter they're called gods.

 

[2ndpillar]

You know much of what you have posted here is correct. Although the Mother harlot specifically represents the Roman Catholic Church (not the people but the teachings and system) and her harlot daughters that have come out of here represent apostate Protestantism that have departed God and His Word. God has poeple in all the Church's but is calling us out from following man-made teachings and traditions back to worship Him in Spirit and in truth according to His Word (see John 10:16; John 4:23-24; Revelation 17:1-5; Revelation 18:1-5). Thanks for sharing.

The message of Yeshua was directed at all of the Harlot daughter churches, and it was to "come out of her" or "receive of her plagues" (Rev 18:4). There is no daughter of Babylon that has not received the "plagues" of the nations. And the "Mother" does not represent the "Catholic church". The "Catholic church is just a daughter of the idol worshipping religion of Babylon, and her daughters are as their mother. As for "His Word", that would be the Law and the prophets, which includes the prophet Yeshua, who Moses stated one must listed to the prophet to come. The Roman church was founded on the false dogma of the Trinity, set by the Roman Emperor Constantine, in 325 A.D. and Constantine glorified Peter and Paul, as the foundational pillars of his church, and built basilicas for both. Constantine is the Beast with two horns like a lamb, and his two horns like a lamb (Christ like leaders) were Peter and Paul, the foundation of the Roman and Protestant churches. The "Truth" is that the Gentile churches are built on the "message" of the "devil", which was mixed with the good "message" planted by the "son of man" (Mt 13:25-50). Their end, their "fall"(Mt 7:27), is at hand (Isaiah 22:25).

Mt 13:37And He said, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man, 38and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one; 39and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels. 40“So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. 41“The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43“Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

 

[3rdAngel]

The message of Yeshua was directed at all of the Harlot daughter churches, and it was to "come out of her" or "receive of her plagues" (Rev 18:4). There is no daughter of Babylon

Then there is Gods Words that disagree with your words that says in ... Revelation 17:5 5, And on her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. You do err not knowing scripture.

 

[nPeace]

@3rdAngel it's something worth considering.
Where did the Trinity doctrine originate, or all other false doctrines? Not the RCC. They adopted these.
So, certainly that rules out the RCC as the mother of the harlot's - Babylon the Great. Wouldn't it?
Another thing to consider, is the timeline. The RCC is post-first century. So how could the RCC be riding a beast that has pre-first century elements - five kingdoms (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Media Persia, Greece)?

 

[nPeace]

Maybe if you tell me what your idea is of that generation and what generation it is and how long it is, otherwise we go backwards and forwards and I don't see your point.

We aren't going forward. We aren't going anywhere.
I thought you know what I believe about the generation.
Perhaps this can help.
Matthew 3:7; Matthew 12:34
What is the generation of vipers, and how long does that generation last?

The Bible speaks of the generation of the righteous. Psalms 14:5 There they were filled with a great dread, For Jehovah* is among the generation of the righteous one.

Clearly, the use of generation is not limited to the understanding many commonly apply it.
See this article for a detailed explanation.

What we know from Jesus words - until all these things happen, is that they include people whose lives would in some way be associated with the foretold events during his presence (coming, in most translations).

Hence, I am trying to see how you explain that.

To me it means that the generation that sees Jesus return will have see all the other signs also.
So I keep posting this passage because it defines the generation that Jesus was talking about.
Matt 24:32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

If a generation can look back and say "Yes we have seen all those signs in our generation", that means that Jesus will be coming before that generation dies out.

So, if I understand you, the generation is dependent on when the great tribulations ends, but you don't know when that will be. Therefore you don't know what Jesus meant by this generation.
Would it not have been easier to answer with, "I don't know, since only those who see Jesus' coming, would know"?

 

[3rdAngel]

@3rdAngel it's something worth considering.
Where did the Trinity doctrine originate, or all other false doctrines? Not the RCC. They adopted these.
So, certainly that rules out the RCC as the mother of the harlot's - Babylon the Great. Wouldn't it?
Another thing to consider, is the timeline. The RCC is post-first century. So how could the RCC be riding a beast that has pre-first century elements - five kingdoms (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Media Persia, Greece)

Dig deeper, its Mystery Babylon not literal Babylon and this is the mother of Harlots (Revelation 17:5) and the great whore that sits on many waters (Revelation 17:1). A whore or harlot in bible prophecy is a symbol of God's people being unfaithful to God and His Word (e.g. Jeremiah 3:1-3; 6:11; Ezekiel 16:8; 27-30; 44-48; Hosea 1:2; 2:2-13; 4:11-13; 7:4; etc etc). A pure women is a symbol of God's people who follow God (see Isaiah 51:16; Jeremiah 3:14; Revelation 12:1-17; Revelation 19:7-9. The Roman Catholic Church absolutely fits Mystery Babylon the great whore and the mother (RCC) of harlots (apostate Protestantism). Mystery Babylon is the religion of Babylon that has infiltrated mainstream Christianity. Another thing to consider is that you need to consider the books of Daniel and Revelation together. The little Horn (RCC) that comes out of the 4th beast (Roman Empire) of Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 as well as Revelation 17 and Revelation 18 absolutely fit the Roman Catholic Church. Sitting on the Beast does not make the harlot the beast it is a continuation of Satanic power and all the beasts before it another words it is riding on them and a continuation of them controlling and leading them before the second coming.

 

[Brian2]

We aren't going forward. We aren't going anywhere.
I thought you know what I believe about the generation.
Perhaps this can help.
Matthew 3:7; Matthew 12:34
What is the generation of vipers, and how long does that generation last?

The Bible speaks of the generation of the righteous. Psalms 14:5 There they were filled with a great dread, For Jehovah* is among the generation of the righteous one.

Clearly, the use of generation is not limited to the understanding many commonly apply it.
See this article for a detailed explanation.

What we know from Jesus words - until all these things happen, is that they include people whose lives would in some way be associated with the foretold events during his presence (coming, in most translations).

Hence, I am trying to see how you explain that.


So, if I understand you, the generation is dependent on when the great tribulations ends, but you don't know when that will be. Therefore you don't know what Jesus meant by this generation.
Would it not have been easier to answer with, "I don't know, since only those who see Jesus' coming, would know"?

I don't see anything wrong with seeing the generation from the end back. Those who see the last sign, and have seen the other signs, will know that their generation will not die before Jesus returns.

 

[2ndpillar]

Then there is Gods Words that disagree with your words that says in ... Revelation 17:5 5, And on her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. You do err not knowing scripture.

The "Mystery, Babylon the Great", is the "Mother of Harlots", which rides on the shoulders of all "seven" heads of the beast, and that is from the head of gold, Nebuchadnezzar to the feet of iron (Rome) and clay (Muslims), which is inclusive of the legs of iron (Rome), the authority behind the Roman church, via the "dragon" (Rev 17:3 & 9) & (Rev 13:4). You might want to actually believe all of God's Words before nit picking out of context. Five of those kings/beasts have "fallen" at the time of the writing of the book of Revelation. The Book of Revelation was written during the period of the Augustus Caesars of Rome, the beast of "now"(Rev 17:11).

New American Standard Bible (Revelation 17:3)
And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness; and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns.

…10There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. 11 The beast that was, and now is not, is an eighth king, who belongs to the other seven and is going into destruction. 12The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but will receive one hour of authority as kings, along with the beast.…

 

[3rdAngel]

The "Mystery, Babylon the Great", is the "Mother of Harlots", which rides on the shoulders of all "seven" heads of the beast, and that is from the head of gold, Nebuchadnezzar to the feet of iron (Rome) and clay (Muslims), which is inclusive of the legs of iron (Rome), the authority behind the Roman church, via the "dragon" (Rev 17:3 & 9) & (Rev 13:4). You might want to actually believe all of God's Words before nit picking out of context. Five of those kings/beasts have "fallen" at the time of the writing of the book of Revelation. The Book of Revelation was written during the period of the Augustus Caesars of Rome, the beast of "now"(Rev 17:11).

New American Standard Bible (Revelation 17:3)
And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness; and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns.

…10There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. 11 The beast that was, and now is not, is an eighth king, who belongs to the other seven and is going into destruction. 12The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but will receive one hour of authority as kings, along with the beast.…

Please forgive me dear friend but I do not believe your false interpretations and twisting of scripture. I think I suggested earlier you might best to read and consider 2 Peter 3:14-16. Don't bother responding if you continue to close your eyes and ears to hearing and seeing Gods Words and are not here for a discussion. It does not do anyone any good. I think I told you earlier I have put away the pearls and shook off the dust of my shoes to our discussions and decided to leave it between you and God to work out.

 

[2ndpillar]

Please forgive me dear friend but I do not believe your false interpretations and twisting of scripture. I think I suggested earlier you might best to read and consider 2 Peter 3:14-16. Don't bother responding if you continue to close your eyes and ears to hearing and seeing Gods Words and are not here for a discussion. It does not do anyone any good. I think I told you earlier I have put away the pearls and shook off the dust of my shoes to our discussions and decided to leave it between you and God to work out.

According to Yeshua, if you had "pearls", which you don't in my humble opinion, you were to sell them and buy a piece of the knowledge of the "kingdom of heaven" (Mt 13:44-46). Or in a more direct path, you could keep the Commandments, and sell all you have, whether with pearls or not, and give it to the poor to become "perfect" (Mt 19:21). As for your ideas on "Babylon the Great", you have no backing whether with your "scriptures" or the "Scriptures". As for why Babylon is considered a female, it is apparently because she can't concede to her own err and continues down the path to "destruction" according to Yeshua Matthew 7:13. As for your 2 Peter, the consensus is that Peter, the "worthless shepherd" of Zech 11:16-16) didn't write it. The same goes for around 50% of the Pauline epistles. You have built your house on a foundation of sand, and like many weak women, they have to rely on their Intransigence to make a place for themselves. As for dusting off your shoes, that was done by the disciples who taught the "kingdom of heaven" with respect to healing the sick and raising the dead. Apparently not fitting the facts in your case, as the false gospel of grace is antithetical to the gospel of the kingdom. Authorship of the Petrine epistles - Wikipedia

The authorship of the Petrine epistles (First and Second Peter) is an important question in biblical criticism, parallel to that of the authorship of the Pauline epistles, since scholars have long sought to determine who were the exact authors of the New Testament letters. Most scholars today conclude that Saint Peter was not the author of the two epistles that are attributed to him and that they were written by two different authors.[1][2][3][4]

44“The kingdom of heaven is like a treasure hidden in the field, which a man found and hid again; and from joy over it he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.

A Costly Pearl

45“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant seeking fine pearls, 46and upon finding one pearl of great value, he went and sold all that he had and bought it.