Can you Unravel the Mystery?

[YoursTrue]

I don't know a lot about Hosea. My understanding is that Hosea and Amos are the two oldest complete books of the Bible (there are passages in other books that are older), and were written during the dual monarchy period. It appears that it was indeed written by a man named Hosea. That's the sum total of my knowledge, which I learned from the Jewish scholar who does the Useful Charts series of videos called "Who wrote the Bible", specifically episode 2, the Prophets. It is entirely possible that others scholars may say something different.

OK, so what I'm saying is that you apparently believe what some say about Moses (i.e., that he never existed) and more and others about others such as Hosea which you seem to . Anyway, that's what I see and have a good evening. Wonder why you believe that Hosea actually wrote what is in the book attributed to him, but not perhaps Moses. At this point my reaction is: oh well.

 

[Ebionite]

The field, the corn, and the bread are different things. But the words are connected together. Thats the point.

Every time the connections between the ideas gets looser, the chances that you association is meaningful diminishes.

"Until I come and take you away to a land like your own land, a land of corn and wine, a land of bread and vineyards". Isaiah 36:17

This is interesting. verse 17->22 & 2. It was originally about Jerusalem

Then came Eliakim, the son of Hilkiah, that [was] over the household, and Shebna the scribe, and Joah, the son of Asaph, the recorder, to Hezekiah with [their] clothes rent, and told him the words of Rabshakeh.
Isaiah 36:22

And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
Isaiah 22:22

And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah:
Isaiah 22:20

And the king of Assyria sent Rabshakeh from Lachish to Jerusalem unto king Hezekiah with a great army. And he stood by the conduit of the upper pool in the highway of the fuller's field.
Isaiah 36:2

The upper pool is the old pool (the Gihon spring ).

Ye made also a ditch between the two walls for the water of the old pool: but ye have not looked unto the maker thereof, neither had respect unto him that fashioned it long ago.
Isaiah 22:11


Your connection from wine to glory still looks tenuous to me, though.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Every time the connections between the ideas gets looser, the chances that you association is meaningful diminishes.

The weaving of the word groups is what makes them far greater than any one group mentioned.
The word weaving of many groups into one group makes them confirm each others meaning.

This is interesting. verse 17->22 & 2. It was originally about Jerusalem

Jerusalem is a city made of words. The prophets are weaving their words into Jerusalem, the city of truth.
I can show you how the glories go into their specific gates of Jerusalem.

Your connection from wine to glory still looks tenuous to me, though.

Ok. I can aim the wine back to the sun glory mentioned. I can go over it again in different ways.

Remember I showed how the sun was connected to bow in Habakkuk?

Glory1 - Glory2 - Glory3
Moon - Star - Sun
Spear - Sword - Bow

So as bow is connected to Sun glory, I will again connect bow to wine:.

Those with bows are mighty men:
Their quiver is as an open sepulchre, they are all mighty men. Jermiah 5:16

Then the Lord awaked as one out of sleep, and like a mighty man that shouteth by reason of wine. Psalm 78:65

And they of Ephraim shall be like a mighty man, and their heart shall rejoice as through wine: yea, their children shall see it, and be glad; their heart shall rejoice in the Lord. Zechariah 10:7


The mighty wine glory, is a mighty sun glory.

The mighty God, even the Lord, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof. Psalm 50:1


The word mighty throughout the Bible refers to the Sun glory position.

The mighty bows, and mighty wine, are confirming the mighty sun glory.


Glory1 - Glory2 - Glory3
Moon - Star - Sun
Spear - Sword - Bow
Bread - Oil - Wine

Does that help with clarifying what Im saying?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

OK, so what I'm saying is that you apparently believe what some say about Moses (i.e., that he never existed) and more and others about others such as Hosea which you seem to . Anyway, that's what I see and have a good evening. Wonder why you believe that Hosea actually wrote what is in the book attributed to him, but not perhaps Moses. At this point my reaction is: oh well.

My tendency is to trust experts in their field. They have put in the time and effort that is necessary to become authorities in their field, and they have the facts that they need to reach the conclusions they do. When they are in agreement, there is no good reason to doubt them. When they do not agree, I may choose to go with a particular opinion, though I flag it as not necessarily being the case. The point here is that I try to make my opinions based on actual evidence.

And I never said Moses didn't exist. I said there were no outside sources confirming his existence, which makes the probability that he is largely legendary much more likely. The opposite is the case for Hosea. In his case, the evidence seems to suggest that he was indeed a historical person who wrote the book attributed to him. Follow the evidence.

 

[YoursTrue]

My tendency is to trust experts in their field.

Rather than the Bible, I suppose.

They have put in the time and effort that is necessary to become authorities in their field, and they have the facts that they need to reach the conclusions they do. When they are in agreement, there is no good reason to doubt them. When they do not agree, I may choose to go with a particular opinion, though I flag it as not necessarily being the case. The point here is that I try to make my opinions based on actual evidence.

I don't see the evidence. I see opinions cited of those considered experts, but no supportive evidence. Only opinion. And I have a feeling that's what got Spinoza in trouble back then.

And I never said Moses didn't exist. I said there were no outside sources confirming his existence, which makes the probability that he is largely legendary much more likely. The opposite is the case for Hosea. In his case, the evidence seems to suggest that he was indeed a historical person who wrote the book attributed to him. Follow the evidence.

Oh, sorry. I do not agree that because there are no outside sources confirming his existence means in likelihood he did not exist. In fact, I know of a circumstance in which the participants who publish details on the web leave details out, in fact glossing over facts I know to be true as if someone else said it. I do not care to get involved, I worked for a lawyer who kindly told me the reason depositions are taken is because persons lie or forget what they've said. He also told me about a case where the secretary told the truth inadvertently about something and because of that, the lawyer lost the case because -- he lied.
So you didn't say Moses did not exist. You just said he probably did not. Right?

 

[YoursTrue]

My tendency is to trust experts in their field. They have put in the time and effort that is necessary to become authorities in their field, and they have the facts that they need to reach the conclusions they do. When they are in agreement, there is no good reason to doubt them. When they do not agree, I may choose to go with a particular opinion, though I flag it as not necessarily being the case. The point here is that I try to make my opinions based on actual evidence.

And I never said Moses didn't exist. I said there were no outside sources confirming his existence, which makes the probability that he is largely legendary much more likely. The opposite is the case for Hosea. In his case, the evidence seems to suggest that he was indeed a historical person who wrote the book attributed to him. Follow the evidence.

There have been innocent people convicted and/or put to death because the jury believed what the prosecution said about evidence and logic. Some of those cases were overturned, as you probably know. Anyway -- I'm not going into further detail right now, but thank you for your response.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

It was originally about Jerusalem

I mentioned Jerusalem is a city made of words. That might sound weird. I should show you an example of what i mean.

Jerusalem is a city made of words. The prophets are weaving their words into Jerusalem, the city of truth.
I can show you how the glories go into their specific gates of Jerusalem.

So I will show you how the corn, oil, and wine goes into Jerusalem through their specific gates:


There are 12 gates mentioned here in Ezekiel:

And the gates of the city shall be after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi.

And at the east side four thousand and five hundred: and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan.

And at the south side four thousand and five hundred measures: and three gates; one gate of Simeon, one gate of Issachar, one gate of Zebulun.

At the west side four thousand and five hundred, with their three gates; one gate of Gad, one gate of Asher, one gate of Naphtali.

It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, The Lord is there.

Ezekiel 48:31-35



So this is how the glories of corn, oil, and wine go into the gates of the city:

Connecting the glories to the gates of the tribes:

North - West - East
Corn - Olive - Grape
Bread - Oil - Wine

Ephraim is a Wine glory. Ephraim being of Joseph is an East gate glory. I have shown you Ephraim and wine connections.

While Asher is an Oil glory. Asher is a West gate glory.

And of Asher he said, Let Asher be blessed with children; let him be acceptable to his brethren, and let him dip his foot in oil. Deuteronomy 33:24.

And Rueben is a Corn glory. Rueben is a North gate glory.

Now the children of Reuben and the children of Gad had a very great multitude of cattle: and when they saw the land of Jazer, and the land of Gilead, that, behold, the place was a place for cattle; Numbers 32:1

There is Cattle glory in the corn glory.

For it is written in the law of Moses, thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? 1 Corinthians 9:9

The city is a city of truth. The gates make sure of it.

North - West - East
Corn - Olive - Grape
Bread - Oil - Wine
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Lion - Leopard - Wolf

These words are true. The lion is with the calf (cattle), the leopard with the kid (goat), and the wolf is with the lamb (sheep).

The city of truth can confirm it.

The lion of the tribe of Judah is with the calf. Rueben and Judah are North gate glories.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Rather than the Bible, I suppose.

Well, yes. Of course. The Bible is a religious text. It's purpose is to inspire us, to bring us closer to God, and to assist us in becoming better people. It is not meant to be a historical treatise or a scientific study. So yes, OF COURSE when I go looking for actual history, I go to actual historians, not the Bible.

Remember, you and I have very very different ideas what the Bible is. You think it is God's very word revealed through the prophets. I don't. It was written by human beings, with all their flaws. The Torah, Prophets, and Writings have importance for me not because God dictated their words, but via the common consent of the Jewish people.

I don't see the evidence. I see opinions cited of those considered experts, but no supportive evidence. Only opinion. And I have a feeling that's what got Spinoza in trouble back then.

Sir, you and I do not have the education to be familiar with the evidence. It is not our field. We are just two reasonably intelligent schmucks on an internet forum. OF COURSE we do not have the same knowledge of the facts and evidence as someone with a PhD who has dedicates their life to examining what facts there are to be found. That's why THEY are the experts, and you and I are NOT.

 

[Muffled]

Nope, it's particularly the Jibt and Taghut and society of Gog and Magog. They are the ones who have corrupted all religions from the originals, and today they rule the US.

I believe that is fantasy. For one thing the Bible is largely ethnocentric which means that it is mostly about the Jews.

 

[Link]

I believe that is fantasy. For one thing the Bible is largely ethnocentric which means that it is mostly about the Jews.

Dul-Kifl who was sent to the Jews, revealed who Gog and Magog are. It's as I explained.