Can you be a Pagan without Psychedelics?

[Rainbow Mage]

Paganism was centered around cults which were faciitated by the use of Psychedelics. Kykera (LSA) for Greeks, Suma made of Fly Agaric mushrooms for Scythians, Blue lotus for Egyptians, Cactus (Mesculine) for South Americans...for instance.

So how can modern Pagans find spirituality without these tools which were so crucial to the exercise of Shamans?

I jus don't see how you believe what they believed is all I'm saying...

Wow I sure hope it isn't required, otherwise I'm in trouble. I don't even smoke pot, LOL. As for the Egyptians using blue lotus, so what, they did lots of things against Ma'at. Ma'at isn't a system of do's and do not's, it says if you do something there will always be a consequence. Doesn't mean these things are adviseable or even moral.

 

[Psychonaut]

A thing cannot be immoral. Man is immoral.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

A thing cannot be immoral. Man is immoral.

I still don't understand the point of this thread, LOL. Is it to argue that all Pagans are drugheads or something? :sarcastic

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

Perhaps the question is better put this way...there is a lot of aspects of all pagan religions that have ben shown (scholarly work) or are easily inferred to be the result of psychedelics. I wouldn't say all pagans did drugs but that pagans believed in religions which were the work of people doing psychedelics.

The religions themselves were not the work of people doing psychedelics either. There is no EVIDENCE of the Scandinavians doing that. There are inferences and assumptions, and even some guessing, but that means nothing.

 

[Revasser]

Perhaps the question is better put this way...there is a lot of aspects of all pagan religions that have ben shown (scholarly work) or are easily inferred to be the result of psychedelics. I wouldn't say all pagans did drugs but that pagans believed in religions which were the work of people doing psychedelics.

Still waiting on those sources.

 

[RobGelber]

Very early in my spiritual journey outside of Christianity, I came across a story about a Yogi who some hippies gave LSD. It didn't do anything for him because through his practice of meditation he'd already replicated all of LSD's mind altering aspects. I don't remember the source for this story. (Sorry Revasser.) But it did form a fundamental spiritual belief of mine: that the mind-altering and/or mind-opening aspects of certain drugs can be had and be had in much safer forms through meditation and ritual.

However, it doesn't worry or shock me if my pagan ancestors did happen to use drugs for spiritual purposes. Maybe they did. If so, it's fine with me, though I might not choose to do things in exactly the same way they did. Our destination is the same though perhaps our vehicles may be somewhat different.

I'm also interested to see what sources you have on the topic, Psychonaut.

 

[ellenjanuary]

I tried to be a pagan; but all the cool people on the MySpace R&P argued that "pagan" is not a religion, it is an insult (means "hick" after all) and, even worse, Ishtar is not Isis... besides, "pagan" sounds like someone wants to belong; whereas "emissary of Wotan" sounds like belonging...

Anyhoo... this is like saying, can't be Christian; without the Roman collar, the crosier... Medicine for the medicine man; faith for the faithful. And besides: I can't imagine Thor being wimpier than JC, and if Jesus insisted that ritual was far more for man than god, think the ol' timers are gonna stand on ceremony?

Think/not.

 

[RobGelber]

Well you're right about the origins of the word pagan. But people often reclaim a word from their opponents. If you want to call yourself Emissary of Wotan, I don't think anybody's going to stand in your way. But I find the 'pagan' label useful because a lot of people basically understand what it means.

My point about meditation and ritual is that for many people, they work. No it's not handy for everyone. Some people have their own revelations without them. But then some people have revelations using them too. I personally think there's good evidence in temples and literature that, regardless of whether they used drugs as well, the ancients who contacted the old gods used ceremony.

 

[Jacksnyte]

Paganism was centered around cults which were faciitated by the use of Psychedelics. Kykera (LSA) for Greeks, Suma made of Fly Agaric mushrooms for Scythians, Blue lotus for Egyptians, Cactus (Mesculine) for South Americans...for instance.

So how can modern Pagans find spirituality without these tools which were so crucial to the exercise of Shamans?

I jus don't see how you believe what they believed is all I'm saying...

The term Pagan has become an umbrella term in modern parlance. Everything from Satanists to New Agers and everything between (as well as several beyond)fit under the heading "Pagan". There are some pagan paths that do include these substances, but they aren't absoloutely necessary! Many of the states of consciousness arrived at by use of entheogens can also be reached through other means as well.

 

[Jacksnyte]

Wow I sure hope it isn't required, otherwise I'm in trouble. I don't even smoke pot, LOL. As for the Egyptians using blue lotus, so what, they did lots of things against Ma'at. Ma'at isn't a system of do's and do not's, it says if you do something there will always be a consequence. Doesn't mean these things are adviseable or even moral.

What about the use of blue lotus is against Ma'at?

 

[Jacksnyte]

Perhaps the question is better put this way...there is a lot of aspects of all pagan religions that have ben shown (scholarly work) or are easily inferred to be the result of psychedelics. I wouldn't say all pagans did drugs but that pagans believed in religions which were the work of people doing psychedelics.

There has been some speculation that all religions were initiated by an altered state(usually thought to be brought on by the accidental ingestion of some form of entheogen)

 

[Noaidi]

There has been some speculation that all religions were initiated by an altered state(usually thought to be brought on by the accidental ingestion of some form of entheogen)

These are quite interesting reads from an ethnobotanical view:

'The Long Trip' by Paul Devereux
The Long Trip: A Prehistory of Psychedelia: Amazon.co.uk: Paul Devereux: Books


'Supernatural' by Graham Hancock
Supernatural: Meetings with the Ancient Teachers of Mankind: Amazon.co.uk: Graham Hancock: Books

 

[Jacksnyte]

Very early in my spiritual journey outside of Christianity, I came across a story about a Yogi who some hippies gave LSD. It didn't do anything for him because through his practice of meditation he'd already replicated all of LSD's mind altering aspects. I don't remember the source for this story. (Sorry Revasser.) But it did form a fundamental spiritual belief of mine: that the mind-altering and/or mind-opening aspects of certain drugs can be had and be had in much safer forms through meditation and ritual.

However, it doesn't worry or shock me if my pagan ancestors did happen to use drugs for spiritual purposes. Maybe they did. If so, it's fine with me, though I might not choose to do things in exactly the same way they did. Our destination is the same though perhaps our vehicles may be somewhat different.

I'm also interested to see what sources you have on the topic, Psychonaut.

Ram Das-Be Here Now

 

[no-body]

If you want to do pscyadelics, do them, but the need to prop them up and idolize them like a God makes you come across as an addict. Yes psychedelics have been important for not just religions, pagan or otherwise but humanity and society in general. But not everyone used psychedelics all the time nor was every human achievement caused by them and also not everyone needs drugs to alter their consciousness.