Can the Sciences Legitimately Distinguish Between True and False Religious Beliefs?

[Subduction Zone]

I have said before and will say it again, your claims against ours, and nothing is accomplished, just like this exchange accomplishes absolutely nothing for me, or for you.

I can support my claims. You cannot support yours. You do not even understand how science is done and can be fooled rather easily by charlatans as you have already shown to be the case by linking a site written by admitted liars.

 

[Grandliseur]

How is putting known facts into textbooks 'dogma'? You don't appear to understand the terms that you use. There is no bias. There is only ignorance on your part. I can help you to learn.

You are not only ignorant of the sciences, you are afraid of them and hate them. And I doubt if you have seen any evidence. Like most creationists you probably do not even understand the concept. And where have I insulted you? I have merely made observations. I am willing to help you to learn. Ignorance is cured by education. You on the other hand have made vile comments about others that you cannot support.

Also evolution is not an atheistic belief. Most Christians accept the fact of evolution. One does have to try to keep oneself ignorant of the sciences these days to oppose it.

And, atheists reject all things they cannot counter however factual they be. I said from the beginning that I am not interested in atheistic nonsense, yet, you do not seem to listen. These exchanges benefit neither you nor I. How many times does this need to be said.

Atheists reject the easily verified Ica stones witness for dinosaur and human living simultaneously, the temple depictions in Cambodia ( was it), and Egyptian Hieroglyph with such animal depiction, clay animals in Mexico perhaps, quoting:

The objects were made of clay and stone, varying in size from a few inches long to statues three feet high, and dinosaur objects four to five feet long. In the collection, that now numbered over 20,000 objects, not one could be found to be a duplicate of another. Each of the clay pieces had been individually made, without molds, skillfully sculptured, and carefully decorated. Several hundred of the figurines were scientifically identified as representing many species of dinosaurs, including duck billed Trachodon, Gorgosaurus, horned Monoclonius, Ornitholestes, Titanosaurus, Triceratops, Stegosaurus Paleococincus, Diplodocus, Podokosaurus, Struthiomimos, Plesiosaur, Maiasaura, Rhamphorynchus, Iguanodon, Brachiosaurus, Pteranodon, Dimetrodon, Ichtyornis, Tyrannosaurus Rex, Rhynococephalia and other unknown or as yet unidentified dinosaur species.​

The scientific facts of evolutionists is nothing but whitewashed lies.

It would seem I am not the only ignorant person in this discussion. When are you going to leave well enough alone. Go home to mama and cry. I am not interested in atheistic nonsense and evolutionary lies.

 

[Subduction Zone]

And, atheists reject all things they cannot counter however factual they be. I said from the beginning that I am not interested in atheistic nonsense, yet, you do not seem to listen. These exchanges benefit neither you nor I. How many times does this need to be said.

And again you make false claims against your neighbors. I guess the Ten Commandments mean nothing to you. These are not the acts of a Christian.

Atheists reject the easily verified Ica stones witness for dinosaur and human living simultaneously, the temple depictions in Cambodia ( was it), and Egyptian Hieroglyph with such animal depiction, clay animals in Mexico perhaps, quoting:

The objects were made of clay and stone, varying in size from a few inches long to statues three feet high, and dinosaur objects four to five feet long. In the collection, that now numbered over 20,000 objects, not one could be found to be a duplicate of another. Each of the clay pieces had been individually made, without molds, skillfully sculptured, and carefully decorated. Several hundred of the figurines were scientifically identified as representing many species of dinosaurs, including duck billed Trachodon, Gorgosaurus, horned Monoclonius, Ornitholestes, Titanosaurus, Triceratops, Stegosaurus Paleococincus, Diplodocus, Podokosaurus, Struthiomimos, Plesiosaur, Maiasaura, Rhamphorynchus, Iguanodon, Brachiosaurus, Pteranodon, Dimetrodon, Ichtyornis, Tyrannosaurus Rex, Rhynococephalia and other unknown or as yet unidentified dinosaur species.​

The scientific facts of evolutionists is nothing but whitewashed lies.

It would seem I am not the only ignorant person in this discussion. When are you going to leave well enough alone. Go home to mama and cry. I am not interested in atheistic nonsense and evolutionary lies.

Oh my!! The Ica stones are a fraud. I thought that everyone knew that. There were some original Ica stones, but when the locals found that "Ica stones" could earn them be sold to a credulous fool without any training in archaeology guess what happened? Many more were found. Here let me help you:

Are the Ica stones authentic?


Ica stones - Wikipedia

The 10 Most Not-So-Puzzling Ancient Artifacts: The Ica Stones

The list goes on and on. What makes you think that the Ica stones are real? Archaeologists have learned not to pay locals for artifacts. Artifacts are usually found in undeveloped areas and the locals quite often quickly find it is more profitable to make artifacts then it is to be a subsistence farmer.

 

[Grandliseur]

And again you make false claims against your neighbors. I guess the Ten Commandments mean nothing to you. These are not the acts of a Christian.



Oh my!! The Ica stones are a fraud. I thought that everyone knew that. There were some original Ica stones, but when the locals found that "Ica stones" could earn them be sold to a credulous fool without any training in archaeology guess what happened? Many more were found. Here let me help you:

Are the Ica stones authentic?


Ica stones - Wikipedia

The 10 Most Not-So-Puzzling Ancient Artifacts: The Ica Stones

The list goes on and on. What makes you think that the Ica stones are real? Archaeologists have learned not to pay locals for artifacts. Artifacts are usually found in undeveloped areas and the locals quite often quickly find it is more profitable to make artifacts then it is to be a subsistence farmer.

You know what! You are worse than the JWs. At least when one tells them, 'I am not interested' - they leave. You come back like a bad penny.
Didn't you just reject out of hand the link I gave you.

Go away, you are obnoxious.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You know what! You are worse than the JWs. At least when one tells them, 'I am not interested' - they leave. You come back like a bad penny.
Didn't you just reject out of hand the link I gave you.

Go away, you are obnoxious.

You gave a bogus link. I explained to you what was wrong with it. I have seen that idiocy before.

I also explained to you why it was bogus. What part did you not understand? When you do not understand something you should ask questions politely and properly. You should not make personal attacks. I can help you to get over your ignorance.

 

[Grandliseur]

You gave a bogus link. I explained to you what was wrong with it. I have seen that idiocy before.

I also explained to you why it was bogus. What part did you not understand? When you do not understand something you should ask questions politely and properly. You should not make personal attacks. I can help you to get over your ignorance.

Atheists dismiss evidence they don't like. You don't have anything I want. The Ica stones were dismissed by someone because they offended his belief system, his paradigm. They are authentic but denied by atheists, that is all.

I am not interested in your belief system whether you think it right or not. You sure are hard to get rid of.

 

[Grandliseur]

You gave a bogus link. I explained to you what was wrong with it. I have seen that idiocy before.

I also explained to you why it was bogus. What part did you not understand? When you do not understand something you should ask questions politely and properly. You should not make personal attacks. I can help you to get over your ignorance.

You sound as if you might be a nice guy and fun to play chess with in real life. Too bad my chess playing days are over, except on my tablets. Two of my best friends are atheist, well one is anyway, the other is dead now, so he isn't anything anymore.

Dead and gone - a poem of mine:
Once You are Dead

Dead and gone
gone where?
where not to is the question?
what question?
who cares?
it matters not at all.

for all are twirling in the wind as dust
just dust
the dust knows not
what knows it not?
if it atheist was, or Christian will be
it matters not at all

in death, pain is not
what pain?
I remember not
for death is the opposite of life
in dust I have no life
it matters no longer at all

where are my tears?
where are my fears?
there is only the twirling of the wind blown dust
the tears are now rain
the fears are now silent
it matters no longer at all

the pain that raged
now is caged
there is only the twirling of the wind blown dust
the joy that blossomed
is now a flower in the dust
it matters not at all, for it too shall turn to dust

 

[Etritonakin]

It really does not take more than a fewer internet searches to know that the worldwide flood story was a myth.

The flood was first refuted by early Christian geologists. They went looking for evidence of the flood and instead found that it never happened. Believing in Santa Claus and the Flood are about one the same level.

But a quick internet search now says stuff like "Evidence of biblical flood" all over the place -from non-religiois sources.

One says this -one says that -and I say I have not checked into it myself.

 

[Polymath257]

The point I tried to make more than once is that science claims that matter and anti-matter was supposed to cancel each other out.

This should tell you that there are many things science cannot answer. Some people, even ones I know, fall to their knees when a scientists claims this or that. I should be remembered how many times they have changed their minds over the decades. Things are not fixed and should not be accepted as if they are. Here true skepticism is necessary.

Many atheists accept blindly the large dates and times given by scientists, or so called ones. Yet, here there is the problem of the half full old time hourglass where sand runs out. If the glass was half full when turned, that kind of clock cannot work properly. It has also been found that dinosaur has c14 in some of the material. Not possible if as old as claimed. Lave, e.g., that just came out, at times measures in extreme ages. The clock is not reset, the hour-glass is half full, or something like that.

When then Creationists who measure for C14 become prohibited from labs due to their having found C14, this is no longer science but the Catholic church reborn with its inquisition.

The only problems are from creationists misunderstanding and misinterpreting results.

 

[Polymath257]

I have no problem understand that material. I simply detest the biased evolutionary and atheistic nonsense dished out at times.

But it isn't nonsense. It is established by the weight of the actual evidence.

 

[Polymath257]

Link: >Carbon-14 dating dinosaur bones<

I think it is atheists that lie, just like they brush aside the fact that there is evidence for dinosaur living at the same time as humans. Why are you even bothering me with this! It goes nowhere. Some atheists even go so far as to destroy archaeological evidence to further their faith rather than face the truth.

So the creationists lie and misrepresent their 'findings' and are banned. Seems reasonable to me.

 

[Polymath257]

Can you claim with a straight face that the evolutionary dogma is not inserted into every possible place in the textbooks students study?! Is this not truly "atheistic" nonsense. Try to check the manuals in school-textbooks and see how unnecessarily biased they are with 'atheistic nonsense.'

'Evolutionary dogma' is better read as 'established science'. And, yes, there is every attempt to get established science into the textbooks.

That while I surely am no professional, and am ignorant to some degree, I have clearly seen enough evidence of the extreme bias that atheists have pushed into our schools. From when I was young, the evolutionary concept and the insults to people who in schools believed in a creator rather than in the chaos god was never ending. You might not think it 'atheistic nonsense', but I surely do. So, one insult for another, isn't it. You may not lie by purpose because you simply don't see it as being truly wrong when people are force fed teaching that belongs to another 'faith' - the belief that all things made themselves, and that nothing intelligent caused neither the universe, nor complex ecosystems, fine tuning of the universe, and beautiful nature.

I have read quite a number of creationists books and materials. They are *uniformly* dishonest and misrepresent what they attack. I have followed up on their references and have found that they *lie* about what is said in them.

Let's face it. Creationists (and they are NOT scientists) live off of gullible people who simply want their 'faith' verified by some authority. They do no real science, but instead, live off the propaganda they dish out to the religious nuts that follow them.

 

[Grandliseur]

The only problems are from creationists misunderstanding and misinterpreting results.

The problem is that when you see white, we see black and vice versa. You and I do not live in the same reality. Your interpretation previously, and your 'friend's' are totally in opposition to ours.

There is no agreement at all, except perhaps that morning coffee is a must, that egg must be salted to be enjoyed. I'll look at your other posts, but might not respond unless I have something more enlightening to add.

 

[Grandliseur]

So the creationists lie and misrepresent their 'findings' and are banned. Seems reasonable to me.

I don't know why this is being continued. I have said repeatedly, it is a waste of my time and yours to hash these things over and over.
Perchance, you might find the following more interesting, a small piece of mine:

Things

There are things about which nothing may be done

The rising of the Sun

The path of the moon and the stars

The way of a man with a woman

The birth of child on a particular day, no matter the epoch

The way of a man walking through life

That which God has made crooked

Also that which He has made straight

 

[Grandliseur]

live off of gullible people who simply want their 'faith'

Living off gullible people surely is not just the sin of some religions.

Most things in our world, politics, religion, and science is filled with lies and half truths. Why do you think I don't belong to any church!

Here is something more of mine: (Btw, don't forget to smile)

Don’t forget


When your eyes are farsighted but your goals shortsighted

Don’t forget that hope seen isn’t hope.


When you’re are long in the tooth but have few or none of them

Don’t forget to clamp down on the truth.


When you have bushes growing out of your ears but few to none of them on top of your head

Don’t forget that fuzzy warm feeling love gives.


When you have silver on your head but none in your pocket

Don’t forget that God refines iron, silver, and gold, but not lead.


When your back is crooked but your third leg is straight

Don’t look back, but keep your eyes on the goal.


When your children are older than you wanna be

Don’t forget the youth of paradise regained.


When you say arthritis is a bother, and your knuckles a tight fist loath to open are

Don’t forget your brother knuckles with the same problems.


When your car is a Ford-T’s cousin in age that you keep cussing

Don’t forget that a day to God is a thousand years to us.


When to your olfactory sense a Rose is but old memories

Don’t forget that the memorial tombs will be opened.


When your bicycle was bought in 1930, and even the thieves pass it by

Don’t forget that in heaven there are no thieves.


When people speak but with mouths moving in silence unrelenting

Don’t forget to enjoy the silence while it lasts.


When new batteries fail to improve the workings of your hearing aid

Don’t forget to wash your ears.


When you think that two feet are too many to keep track of but you still put one foot in front of the other--therein lies the problem

Don’t forget to pray for release.



When muscles that single-handedly lifted an automobile engine, now but wearily lifts an empty hand

Don’t forget that all flesh is as green grass that withers and is gone.


When memories aren’t memories

Remember God always.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Atheists dismiss evidence they don't like. You don't have anything I want. The Ica stones were dismissed by someone because they offended his belief system, his paradigm. They are authentic but denied by atheists, that is all.

I am not interested in your belief system whether you think it right or not. You sure are hard to get rid of.

No, the Ica stones were shown to be frauds. That is all that there is to it. Not only that they are bad art. Have you not seen how accurate real art is by primitive peoples? The work on the Ica stones look like the work of a school child.

But then you are a creationist. You do not even understand the concept of evidence. You have beliefs that are akin to a belief in Santa Claus.

Would you like to learn how we know that you are wrong? Most creationists are cowards and run away from learning. If you truly want to learn I will gladly answer any question that you ask.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Living off gullible people surely is not just the sin of some religions.

Most things in our world, politics, religion, and science is filled with lies and half truths. Why do you think I don't belong to any church!

Here is something more of mine: (Btw, don't forget to smile)

Don’t forget


When your eyes are farsighted but your goals shortsighted

Don’t forget that hope seen isn’t hope.


When you’re are long in the tooth but have few or none of them

Don’t forget to clamp down on the truth.


When you have bushes growing out of your ears but few to none of them on top of your head

Don’t forget that fuzzy warm feeling love gives.


When you have silver on your head but none in your pocket

Don’t forget that God refines iron, silver, and gold, but not lead.


When your back is crooked but your third leg is straight

Don’t look back, but keep your eyes on the goal.


When your children are older than you wanna be

Don’t forget the youth of paradise regained.


When you say arthritis is a bother, and your knuckles a tight fist loath to open are

Don’t forget your brother knuckles with the same problems.


When your car is a Ford-T’s cousin in age that you keep cussing

Don’t forget that a day to God is a thousand years to us.


When to your olfactory sense a Rose is but old memories

Don’t forget that the memorial tombs will be opened.


When your bicycle was bought in 1930, and even the thieves pass it by

Don’t forget that in heaven there are no thieves.


When people speak but with mouths moving in silence unrelenting

Don’t forget to enjoy the silence while it lasts.


When new batteries fail to improve the workings of your hearing aid

Don’t forget to wash your ears.


When you think that two feet are too many to keep track of but you still put one foot in front of the other--therein lies the problem

Don’t forget to pray for release.



When muscles that single-handedly lifted an automobile engine, now but wearily lifts an empty hand

Don’t forget that all flesh is as green grass that withers and is gone.


When memories aren’t memories

Remember God always.

Bad poetry and superstitious belief is not very convincing either.

 

[Subduction Zone]

But a quick internet search now says stuff like "Evidence of biblical flood" all over the place -from non-religiois sources.

One says this -one says that -and I say I have not checked into it myself.

That's true. One must have at least some education in the sciences to see that one side is lying.

There actually is no evidence for the flood at all. At best they only have a very very bad interpretation of the evidence that tells us that there was no flood.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The problem is that when you see white, we see black and vice versa. You and I do not live in the same reality. Your interpretation previously, and your 'friend's' are totally in opposition to ours.

There is no agreement at all, except perhaps that morning coffee is a must, that egg must be salted to be enjoyed. I'll look at your other posts, but might not respond unless I have something more enlightening to add.

The problem for those on your side is that there is no informed and honest creationists. It is more than easy to repeatedly confirm that claim. You for example are terribly ignorant about all of the sciences and do not seem to want to learn. The work that those who are educated write is so poorly done that it is easy to show that they are "lying for Jesus" To say the least.

I don't think that you are dishonest. You are merely afraid. Nor am I claiming that you are an idiot. You could learn if you wanted to. The sad thing is that your fear will probably keep you form learning.

Are you ready to learn? I am ready to help you to learn.

 

[Quintessence]

*** REMINDER ***​

This is not a thread on the EvC debate or a thread to "educate" people on some particular stance on that debate. Please try to keep the discussion on topic to the opening post. Thanks.