Can someone convert to an ethnicity?

[Aabraham ben Azar]

Actually you are mistaken... even someone who is half jewish/half chinese will belong to the haplogroups of their parents. One maternal (mtDNA) and one paternal (Y-chromosome). You inherit your genes from both parents not just one.

Haplogroups cover large sections of the population for example Haplogroup J covers peoples from the Middle East, Turkey, Caucasus, Italy, Greece, the Balkans, North and Northeast Africa.
Even when you break Haplogroup J into smaller haplogroups (J*, J1 and J2) Each one covers massive segments of the population over several ethnic groups.

When you add Haplogroups from mtDNA you get an even more complex view of human relationships.

For example Haplogroup M1 includes people from Ethiopia and Somalia, through the Middle East and over to India and Haplogroup R is also found in a majority of people from the Middle East as well as West and East Eurasia. It is the the most common Haplogroup in Europe. And when you break down Haplogroup R you find the same deal as with Haplogroup J

People intermarry and otherwise "mingle" genetically since the dawn of time. As soon as Abraham married a woman his kids got both haplogroups from mom and dad.

The only way to have an "ethnically pure" haplogroup would be via profound inbreeding. Only if Abraham's sons married only Abraham's daughters would Abraham's lineage be a genetically pure one. It's basic genetics.

I agree with what you said except the sentence "Actually you are mistaken... " , I know every human carrys genes of both parents but actually I am talking about Paternal lineage e.g I am son of my father and my father son of my grandfather like Jacob son of Isaac son of Abraham ( one type of Y -chromosome ) when we say descendants of Abraham we mean here descendants who carry one type of Y-chromosone only ( paternal). so any one claims that he is a descendant of Abraham must carry one Y-chromosone and not various ( multinationals like United Nations ) same apply with descendants of Aharun brother of Moses ( HaKohanim) they must carry only one Y-chromosone and not various HPs as they belong to one man who called Aharun.( Paternal ).if you wish to have more details about Kohanim DNA project just google for Ishaq Al Sulaimani ( Gadol Kohan ).

[/ps... decendants of John Kennedy are not a haplogroup, there isn't enough genetic variation to make them a unique haplogroup.
QUOTE]
You are right what you said , actually I meant here to say that descendants of John Kennedy must carry one type of HP like R1 or E or G or J1 or J2 ( one Y-chromosone only ) and can not carry two HPs like R+G or E+J1 or Q+T.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

The short answer is No; you cannot change your ethnicity (even if you can change your DNA) - since ethnicity depends on your biological ancestral roots. However you can change your culture, though it is likely that remnants of your old culture will persist within your subconscious.

 

[Aabraham ben Azar]

The short answer is No; you cannot change your ethnicity (even if you can change your DNA) - since ethnicity depends on your biological ancestral roots. However you can change your culture, though it is likely that remnants of your old culture will persist within your subconscious.

you cannot change your ethnicity (even if you can change your DNA) !!!
Ethnicity = DNA , How can you change your ethnicity without changing your DNA ( Y-chromosone ) ???!!!

 

[InformedIgnorance]

... I just said you CANNOT change your ethnicity EVEN IF you CAN change your DNA.

Because your ethnicity is not dependant solely on your own DNA, it is about the DNA of your ancestry.

The Y Chromosome on the other hand is a matter of gender, not of ethnicity; potentially that is another story if you are able to alter your DNA then gender may be alterable - however that is another topic; on the issue of ethnicity however that CANNOT be changed through manipulation of your own genetics.

 

[Infinitum]

Ethnicity means more than just the DNA.

Ethnic
1. pertaining to or characteristic of a people, especially a group (ethnic group) sharing a common and distinctive culture, religion, language, or the like.
2. referring to the origin, classification, characteristics, etc., of such groups.
3. being a member of an ethnic group, especially of a group that is a minority within a larger society: ethnic Chinese in San Francisco.
4. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of members of such a group.
5. belonging to or deriving from the cultural, racial, religious, or linguistic traditions of a people or country: ethnic dances.

Ethnicity
1. ethnic traits, background, allegiance, or association.
2. an ethnic group: Representatives of several ethnicities were present.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Cultural aspects can be adopted, genetic structure manipulated - but the past cannot be altered.

 

[Infinitum]

Nor did I say it should be altered, but saying ethnicity is just DNA isn't right either.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

I was agreeing with you lol i stressed the genetics of the ancestry in response to AbA's post because it seemed that my earlier point (that an individual's own genetics was not the only factor) was being misunderstood.

 

[Aabraham ben Azar]

... I just said you CANNOT change your ethnicity EVEN IF you CAN change your DNA.

Because your ethnicity is not dependant solely on your own DNA, it is about the DNA of your ancestry.

The Y Chromosome on the other hand is a matter of gender, not of ethnicity; potentially that is another story if you are able to alter your DNA then gender may be alterable - however that is another topic; on the issue of ethnicity however that CANNOT be changed through manipulation of your own genetics.

I think you can not change both of them "Ethnicity & DNA" as they mean the same.

 

[painted wolf]

I agree with what you said except the sentence "Actually you are mistaken... " , I know every human carrys genes of both parents but actually I am talking about Paternal lineage e.g I am son of my father and my father son of my grandfather like Jacob son of Isaac son of Abraham ( one type of Y -chromosome ) when we say descendants of Abraham we mean here descendants who carry one type of Y-chromosone only ( paternal). so any one claims that he is a descendant of Abraham must carry one Y-chromosone and not various ( multinationals like United Nations ) same apply with descendants of Aharun brother of Moses ( HaKohanim) they must carry only one Y-chromosone and not various HPs as they belong to one man who called Aharun.( Paternal ).if you wish to have more details about Kohanim DNA project just google for Ishaq Al Sulaimani ( Gadol Kohan ).

You are right what you said , actually I meant here to say that descendants of John Kennedy must carry one type of HP like R1 or E or G or J1 or J2 ( one Y-chromosone only ) and can not carry two HPs like R+G or E+J1 or Q+T.

Haplogroups are also determined by your mtDNA which you get from your mother. Everyone get their mtDNA from their mothers both men and women.

It's basic genetics and to argue against it is foolish. You have your mothers mtDNa and belong to her haplogroup as well as your fathers (if you are male)

Everyone belongs to their mothers haplogroup because everyone has mtDNA, males also belong to their fathers through their Y chromosome.

Human mitochondrial DNA haplogroup - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

wa:do

ps... "multinationls" still carry the haplogorup of their father not multiple haplogroups from other men. A man with a Chinese mother and a Palestinian father will belong to the Y Chromosome haplogroup of his father and the mtDNA haplogroup of his mother.

 

[Aabraham ben Azar]

Haplogroups are also determined by your mtDNA which you get from your mother. Everyone get their mtDNA from their mothers both men and women.

It's basic genetics and to argue against it is foolish. You have your mothers mtDNa and belong to her haplogroup as well as your fathers (if you are male)

Everyone belongs to their mothers haplogroup because everyone has mtDNA, males also belong to their fathers through their Y chromosome.

Human mitochondrial DNA haplogroup - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

wa:do

ps... "multinationls" still carry the haplogorup of their father not multiple haplogroups from other men. A man with a Chinese mother and a Palestinian father will belong to the Y Chromosome haplogroup of his father and the mtDNA haplogroup of his mother.

I agree with you 100% , but I am talking about male descendants as they are the one who carry and maintain family and tribe names through generations , this is how our societies are built but females descendants belong to their fathers tribes / families( either same tribe or another one ) . I think same tradition apply in Europe , How about your tradition as you are a native American ?

 

[painted wolf]

I agree with you 100% , but I am talking about male descendants as they are the one who carry and maintain family and tribe names through generations , this is how our societies are built but females descendants belong to their fathers tribes / families( either same tribe or another one ) . I think same tradition apply in Europe , How about your tradition as you are a native American ?

Only in some cultures, many others are matralinial... such as many Native American Nations including the Cherokee.

Matralinial systems are also found in South America, Africa, Oceania and Asia.

When you think about being Matrilinial makes more sense anyway, as women contribute more genetically than men do.

You are using an artificial standard... haplogroups belong in both male and female lineages... however the female lineage includes everyone. You can not simply declare that mtDNA haplogroups don't count when considering ethnicity.

Not to mention the fact that doing so still doesn't support your argument about "pure blood" as women contribute more than 50% of a child's genetics. According to your Y-chromosome only argument a child with a Chinese mother and a Palestinian father is "pure blooded" Palestinian while a child with a Palestinian mother and a Chinese father would be "pure blooded" Chinese.

It makes no sense. You must account for both parents genetics.

wa:do

 

[Jacksnyte]

This topic from another thread

Can someone convert to an ethnicity? For instance if someone converts to Judaism from another religion do they become ethnic Jews?

NO, they can't. Can a caucasian "convert" and become black? Genetics aren't changed by just deciding you are something else!

 

[painted wolf]

NO, they can't. Can a caucasian "convert" and become black? Genetics aren't changed by just deciding you are something else!

I had no idea that "caucasian" and "black" were ethnicities.

Someone had better tell the Hutu and Tutsi.... or the Croats and the Serbs.

wa:do

 

[cablescavenger]

This topic from another thread

Can someone convert to an ethnicity? For instance if someone converts to Judaism from another religion do they become ethnic Jews?

If you are talking about Jews then I would say Yes because you kind of gain that by proxy if you convert to their religion.

 

[Aabraham ben Azar]

If you are talking about Jews then I would say Yes because you kind of gain that by proxy if you convert to their religion.

Judaism is a religion comprised of various ethnicities from all over the world ,there are Arab Jews ,Berber Jews,Kurdish Jews, Khazar Jews,Mongolian Jews ,Polish Jews,Persian Jews,African Jews...etc so Judaism like Christinaty and Islam , there is no Islamic ethnicity or Christian ethnicity or Buhdist ethnicity

 

[McBell]

Ethnicity = DNA

Source please.

I ask simply because i have not found a single thing outside personal opinions that even imply that ethnicity has any thing at all to do with DNA.

 

[painted wolf]

Judaism is a religion comprised of various ethnicities from all over the world ,there are Arab Jews ,Berber Jews,Kurdish Jews, Khazar Jews,Mongolian Jews ,Polish Jews,Persian Jews,African Jews...etc so Judaism like Christinaty and Islam , there is no Islamic ethnicity or Christian ethnicity or Buhdist ethnicity

Jewish is also an ethnicity united by shared language, culture and history.
There are American Ojibway and Canadian Ojibway... but both groups are still ethnically Ojibway.

wa:do

 

[cablescavenger]

you cannot change your ethnicity (even if you can change your DNA) !!!
Ethnicity = DNA , How can you change your ethnicity without changing your DNA ( Y-chromosone ) ???!!!

I think you are confusing ethnicity with ancestry. They are not necessarily the same thing.

Ethnicity is little more than a label attached to a group. Depending on the the criteria used to determine how that grouping is labelled you might find you have the ability to bridge or cross over to different groupings, hence change your ethnicity.

 

[Caladan]

Im astounded by the simplistic understanding of some members that ethnicity equals DNA.
Ethnicity is determined by heritage, language, culture, religion, ideologies, and yes genetics to certain degrees.
Jews answer all the criteria, not only that but the Jews are a historical NATION with standing kingdoms, standing armies, common language, common practices, and a common historical geographic land.
Israel is the ONLY, yes ONLY country in the world where people speak Hebrew, incidentally it is also the ONLY Jewish country in the world. Various ethnic groups around the world are taking the Israeli method of language revival, including Celtic people in Great Britain who wish to prevent the loss of their heritage and who are fighting to preserve their ethnic languages.