Can someone convert to an ethnicity?

[Aabraham ben Azar]

WOW.


Some of us are evidently better educated and equipped, and more importantly have more noble intentions.

Some of us jailed himself in a narrow traditional box and scare to break it as he has no courage even to think how to get out of it and to free himself or by help of outsider .( I am the outsider to help you just have a courage ).

 

[Caladan]

Some of us jailed himself in a narrow traditional box and scare to break it as he has no courage even to think how to get out of it and to free himself or by help of outsider .( I am the outsider to help you just have a courage ).

Haha. Now who is emotional, frustrated, and angry? :yes:
I'm starting to enjoy this.

 

[Flankerl]

Really I am confused with you when I say you are pureblooded you don't accept and when I say you are not pureblooded you don't like either , what is the solution ??

The answer is that your whole classification is bollocks.

 

[McBell]

Would someone please be so kind as to point out where ethnicity has to do with DNA?
I understand it has to do with heritage, but it seems to me that far to many people in this thread are confusing heritage with ancestry...

I guess not.
Which is interesting with all the talk about DNA having to do with Ethnicity, I would have thought that I would be able to find something other than opinion pieces that go on and on about DNA, but nothing in the definitions of ethnicity, heritage, etc says that DNA is a requirement...

Another interesting fact is that race is not based on DNA, even though so many people think it is...

Now since so many people seem to think that do to DNA one cannot change their ethnicity...

 

[Flankerl]

deleted

Yeah and you dont want to consider our position. Its been our position for a very long time that a jew is a jew when his mother was jewish or he/she converted to judaism.

And guess what just because you in your wisdom disagree with us doesnt change our position.

The christians disagree with us, yet we maintain our position.
The muslims disagree wirh us, yet we maintain our position.
You disagree with us, yet we maintain our position.

If we would change the tenets of our religion whenever foreign people wanted us to we would have been long gone and forgotten.

 

[Caladan]

Yeah and you dont want to consider our position. Its been our position for a very long time that a jew is a jew when his mother was jewish or he/she converted to judaism.

And guess what just because you in your wisdom disagree with us doesnt change our position.

The christians disagree with us, yet we maintain our position.
The muslims disagree wirh us, yet we maintain our position.
You disagree with us, yet we maintain our position.

I think nothing ****** them off more.

 

[Aabraham ben Azar]

Yeah and you dont want to consider our position. Its been our position for a very long time that a jew is a jew when his mother was jewish or he/she converted to judaism.

And guess what just because you in your wisdom disagree with us doesnt change our position.

The christians disagree with us, yet we maintain our position.
The muslims disagree wirh us, yet we maintain our position.
You disagree with us, yet we maintain our position.

If we would change the tenets of our religion whenever foreign people wanted us to we would have been long gone and forgotten.

I didn't ask you to change your religion or language or ethnicity ( no one has right to do so ) , What I am saying that you were for so long since 4000 years you were unable to determine who are the descendants of Abraham "real heirs of HaEress or who are the true descendants of Aharun "HaKohanim" till the discovery of DNA science which is able to distinguish between descendants of Abraham and followers of Moses .let me repeat again you are Jewish and nobody has power to pull you out of Judaism. ( don't mix between faith & ethnicity ).

 

[Aabraham ben Azar]

I think nothing ****** them off more.

Your title:"Old man of the desert" means you are an Arab beduin , a descendant of Abraham who prefer to live in desert , may be your are an Ishmaeli who converted to Judaism long time ago , have you done DNA test ? .

 

[Caladan]

Your title:"Old man of the desert" means you are an Arab beduin , a descendant of Abraham who prefer to live in desert , may be your are an Ishmaeli who converted to Judaism long time ago , have you done DNA test ? .

I don't think you understand. For what ever Middle eastern roots I have, I am proud of them and I embraced them a long time ago.

 

[painted wolf]

I guess not.
Which is interesting with all the talk about DNA having to do with Ethnicity, I would have thought that I would be able to find something other than opinion pieces that go on and on about DNA, but nothing in the definitions of ethnicity, heritage, etc says that DNA is a requirement...

Another interesting fact is that race is not based on DNA, even though so many people think it is...

Now since so many people seem to think that do to DNA one cannot change their ethnicity...

the closest I can think of is haplogroups. But even that doesn't work since haplogroups can encompass several ethnic groups.

The truth is that some people still obsess over the idea of "purity" and don't seem to realize that humans have always and will always intermix with each other and no ethnic group is or ever was "pure".

wa:do

 

[tumbleweed41]

the closest I can think of is haplogroups. But even that doesn't work since haplogroups can encompass several ethnic groups.

The truth is that some people still obsess over the idea of "purity" and don't seem to realize that humans have always and will always intermix with each other and no ethnic group is or ever was "pure".

wa:do

This :yes:

 

[Aabraham ben Azar]

the closest I can think of is haplogroups. But even that doesn't work since haplogroups can encompass several ethnic groups.

The truth is that some people still obsess over the idea of "purity" and don't seem to realize that humans have always and will always intermix with each other and no ethnic group is or ever was "pure".

wa:do

DNA works very well when we talk about descendants of one man like Abraham so all people who claim that they are descendants of him must carry one Haplogroup only and not several Haplogroups.It's impossible that one man has various Haplogroups.( Pure blood / Paternal ).
But if we talk about tribe it's possible that comprised various peoples and ethnicities as tribe in the ancient time consider like modern state comprised of various peoples and races from all over the world.( mixed blood / No Paternal ).

e.g :
descendants of Abraham : One HP ( Paternal)
descendants of Aharun : One HP ( Paternal )
descendants of Imam Ali : One HP ( Paternal)
descendants of John Kennedy : One HP ( Paternal)

Canadians : various HP
Americans : various HP
British : various HP
Saudi Arabians : various HP
Indians : various HP
Israelis : various HP

 

[Caladan]

What a boring case of circular reasoning. Please show proof for an existence of a man called Abraham so we can trace supposed genetic lineage. Abraham is part of the folklore of ancient Judahites. Furthermore, the offspring of Abraham were highly ethnically diverse, so no chance for your so called single Abrahamic haplogroup. You exposed the major flaw in your story without even taking notice, and that is that the patriarchs and Biblical people were not 'racially pure' to begin with, you are shooting in the dark here. Give it a rest, you look obsessed.

 

[Aabraham ben Azar]

What a boring case of circular reasoning. Please show proof for an existence of a man called Abraham so we can trace supposed genetic lineage. Abraham is part of the folklore of ancient Judahites. Furthermore, the offspring of Abraham were highly ethnically diverse, so no chance for your so called single Abrahamic haplogroup. You exposed the major flaw in your story without even taking notice, and that is that the patriarchs and Biblical people were not 'racially pure' to begin with, you are shooting in the dark here. Give it a rest, you look obsessed.

This is my view and I don't impose it on others , for me Abraham is a fact and as much you have freedom to express your view I have also.

 

[painted wolf]

DNA works very well when we talk about descendants of one man like Abraham so all people who claim that they are descendants of him must carry one Haplogroup only and not several Haplogroups.It's impossible that one man has various Haplogroups.( Pure blood / Paternal ).
But if we talk about tribe it's possible that comprised various peoples and ethnicities as tribe in the ancient time consider like modern state comprised of various peoples and races from all over the world.( mixed blood / No Paternal ).

e.g :
descendants of Abraham : One HP ( Paternal)
descendants of Aharun : One HP ( Paternal )
descendants of Imam Ali : One HP ( Paternal)
descendants of John Kennedy : One HP ( Paternal)

Canadians : various HP
Americans : various HP
British : various HP
Saudi Arabians : various HP
Indians : various HP
Israelis : various HP

Actually you are mistaken... even someone who is half jewish/half chinese will belong to the haplogroups of their parents. One maternal (mtDNA) and one paternal (Y-chromosome). You inherit your genes from both parents not just one.

Haplogroups cover large sections of the population for example Haplogroup J covers peoples from the Middle East, Turkey, Caucasus, Italy, Greece, the Balkans, North and Northeast Africa.

Even when you break Haplogroup J into smaller haplogroups (J*, J1 and J2) Each one covers massive segments of the population over several ethnic groups.

When you add Haplogroups from mtDNA you get an even more complex view of human relationships.

For example Haplogroup M1 includes people from Ethiopia and Somalia, through the Middle East and over to India and Haplogroup R is also found in a majority of people from the Middle East as well as West and East Eurasia. It is the the most common Haplogroup in Europe. And when you break down Haplogroup R you find the same deal as with Haplogroup J

People intermarry and otherwise "mingle" genetically since the dawn of time. As soon as Abraham married a woman his kids got both haplogroups from mom and dad.

The only way to have an "ethnically pure" haplogroup would be via profound inbreeding. Only if Abraham's sons married only Abraham's daughters would Abraham's lineage be a genetically pure one. It's basic genetics.

wa:do

ps... decendants of John Kennedy are not a haplogroup, there isn't enough genetic variation to make them a unique haplogroup.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_peoples

 

[Caladan]

This is my view and I don't impose it on others ,

You are obsessing on it and harassing others with it, especially when you're frustrated that they don't share your distorted view. The rest of us have no problem that Jews are not 'racially pure', Jews have evolved in the geographical doorway between Asia, Europe, and Africa. They have also been spread out on vast geographical locations, just like many other ethnic groups they are 'mutts'. No one makes a big deal out of such absence of 'racial purity' except you.

for me Abraham is a fact and as much you have freedom to express your view I have also.

Please, provide proofs for anyone on the planet to be a descendent of a man called Abraham.

 

[McBell]

the closest I can think of is haplogroups. But even that doesn't work since haplogroups can encompass several ethnic groups.

The truth is that some people still obsess over the idea of "purity" and don't seem to realize that humans have always and will always intermix with each other and no ethnic group is or ever was "pure".

wa:do

OK.

Now I completely fail to understand why it is that people cannot change their ethnicity...
Based on everything I can find on it, there is no real reason why it is not possible to change ones ethnicity...

 

[Iti oj]

I voted no but I want to change that to yes. So ima yes

 

[painted wolf]

OK.

Now I completely fail to understand why it is that people cannot change their ethnicity...
Based on everything I can find on it, there is no real reason why it is not possible to change ones ethnicity...

I think people can blend ethnicity and become a member of another ethnic group, but they will always have part of their prior culture that forms who they are. (Ethnicity again being a complex blend of culture, language and so on)

For example, our language determines what colors we recognize, it changes the way our brains "see" colors. If I joined the Himba people of Africa and became totally enculturated into their ethnic group, I would still "see" the world differently from them. My brain sees colors they don't and doesn't see colors that they do.
Now would my children, if raised as HImba would see the world as the Himba do. If so, then they are truly ethnically Himba IMHO.

Hues and views
Wiring the brain | Pharyngula

wa:do

 

[Infinitum]

Threadhopping, but I've wanted to add this here for a while. I think it's possible to convert to a ethnicity, but you might never be as good at it as someone who's been born into the culture. It's just in the same way as religions usually work. The first generation are clearly converts, the next one doesn't differ from the rest of the people that much - depending on their upbringing.

I count myself as something of a convert from one ethnicity to another. My mother tounge and culture is actually one of a minority in the country and I went as a child to a school that taught me those. My father represents the main culture, but he didn't really affect my upbringing much. When I grew older I started to dislike many things in the culture I grew up in, including the language and much of the traditions, so I've switched over to the other one almost completely by now. My family is also from the west coast of the country, whereas the family I married into is from the east border. There are some small differences in cultures but it's weird enough for me, and I suspect I'm never going to get used to them completely.

Just a few thoughts. Go on.