Can Muslims take women as slaves and then rape them?

[Firemorphic]

Yeah, till the time when Mohammad was alive, Allah could change his istructions at will, abrogating previous instructions. Sunnis and Shias have no such recourse now, and therefore have to discredit Hadiths. Sunnis discredit what is not convenient to them, Shias discredit what is not convenient for them. Both discredit what is not convenient for both of them. Simple.

WTF are you on about? we're not talking about "abrogating previous instructions", we're talking about a group of popularly quoted Hadith's within a particular collection that even Sunnis know is BS. Again, we're dealing with Historiography, not a game of rumors.
Are you on meth, bad at following a conversation or are you trying to pick fights?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Here's a transliteration from bukhari.

And let those who cannot find a match keep chaste till Allah give them independence by His grace. And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation), write it for them if ye are aware of aught of good in them, and bestow upon them of the wealth of Allah which He hath bestowed upon you. Force not your slave-girls to whoredom that ye may seek enjoyment of the life of the world, if they would preserve their chastity. And if one force them, then (unto them), after their compulsion, lo! Allah will be Forgiving, Merciful.

Still reads like that if they do get raped Allah is all forgiving.

Translation from Sahih International:

"But let them who find not [the means for] marriage abstain [from sexual relations] until Allah enriches them from His bounty. And those who seek a contract [for eventual emancipation] from among whom your right hands possess - then make a contract with them if you know there is within them goodness and give them from the wealth of Allah which He has given you. And do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, if they desire chastity, to seek [thereby] the temporary interests of worldly life. And if someone should compel them, then indeed, Allah is [to them], after their compulsion, Forgiving and Merciful."

One needs to understand what Quran says here. If one wants, one can emancipate a slave woman if one so desires, after all the slave is his property (whom your right hand possesses) and enter into a marriage contract with her later, since he may not have the means to marry one from his own community. What one cannot do is to put the slave to prostitution, that is to compel her to have sexual relations with one whose right hand does not possess her. In that case Allah will be with her. Allah has no problem if the master cohabits with her, that is his right. He can, of course, sell the slave to another person, as the Islamic State people rightly did. After that, one would not have any right on her.

Islamic State people punished those people who put their slaves to prostitution. They followed Quran to the letter correctly.

 

[England my lionheart]

Translation from Sahih International:

"But let them who find not [the means for] marriage abstain [from sexual relations] until Allah enriches them from His bounty. And those who seek a contract [for eventual emancipation] from among whom your right hands possess - then make a contract with them if you know there is within them goodness and give them from the wealth of Allah which He has given you. And do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, if they desire chastity, to seek [thereby] the temporary interests of worldly life. And if someone should compel them, then indeed, Allah is [to them], after their compulsion, Forgiving and Merciful."

One needs to understand what Quran says here. If one wants, one can emancipate a slave woman if one so desires, after all the slave is his property (whom your right hand possesses) and enter into a marriage contract with her later, since your means are not enough for marriage from your own community. What you cannot do is to put the slave to prostitution, that is to compel her to have sexual relations with one whose right hand does not possess her. In that case Allah will be with her. Allah has no problem if you cohabit with her, that is your right. You can, of course, sell the slave to another person, as the Islamic State people rightly did. After that, you would not have any right on her.

Islamic State people punished those people who put their slaves to prostitution. They followed Quran to the letter correctly.

Yes It's pretty straightforward.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

No Muslim country's laws are strictly based on the Koran.

Yet it makes something illegal that Allah in the Quran permits.

 

[sooda]

The Iman is talking about an up and coming war. They kind of lost their last war where they seemed to assert Muslim ability to rape their captures in the name of their Allah. According to Zechariah 14, their last raping escapade will be on the women in Jerusalem in the up and coming day of Judgment (Joel 3:2) & (Zechariah 14) & (Revelation 16:13-16). My question is does the Iman have any Islam authority to sanction rape, and why are they speaking up now that they have just lost one war, and the warriors in the waiting to invade Jerusalem are the Iranians with their Russian, North Korea, and Pakistani technologies, all helped paid for by our friend Barrack Hussein Obama.

No.. he doesn't have authority.

 

[sooda]

Yet it makes something illegal that Allah in the Quran permits.

You think everything in the old testament is still legal? I am embarrassed for you.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

You think everything in the old testament is still legal? I am embarrassed for you.

I don't think I said it was, so I'm not sure what you should be embarrassed about.

You seem to miss that the topic is about what the quran permits, not about what is or isn't legal as per nations' laws.

 

[sooda]

Yet it makes something illegal that Allah in the Quran permits.

Nope.. That why ISIS was slaughtering Muslims right and left. You can't possibly be that dumb.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Nope.. That why ISIS was slaughtering Muslims right and left. You can't possibly be that dumb.

Huh?

Are you capable of staying on topic? What does ISIS slaughter have to do with this?

The point being discussed was of KSA making slavery illegal, while the quran explicitly allows the practice.

 

[Baroodi]

An Imam has told his congregation in Wales that war is approaching and Islam allows them to take women as slaves and rape them.
UK Imam: War is Coming, Muslims Can Take Women As Sex Slaves

Is this a preamble to Zechariah 14:3 ?

Zechariah 14:2 2I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city.

This is obsolete Imam. The topic is so complex. Taking loots and captivating the conquered folks as slaves was a tradition centuries before Islam. Muslims taken captives were treated in a heinous way not only as slaves and sex tools but in addition were tortured badly because of the new creed. Islam fought slavery in different ways. Emancipating a slave is a religious act enormously reward able by God. If a Muslim unintentionally committed a man-slaughter or failed to fast one day in Ramadan without an obvious reason, his expiation is to free a slave. In such ways slavery was non-existent any more in Islamic Countries. All ways of enslaving were prohibited by Islam except captivating in war as Muslim captives were treated the same way and even worse as they were tortured in the past. Current international laws prohibit such acts and Islam all through history respected all his treaties with the Non-Muslims unless these treaties were not respected by the other side. Muhammed agreed a treaty with the Jews in Madina, the first Capital of Islam. This treaty allowed the Jews to live free in all aspect of life as long as they are not showing any enmity towards the Muslim. They violated the treaty by conspiring with the infidels and participated in a big plot to eradicate Islam during what was known as Elahzab Battle. After the battle was over with a miraculous defeat of 10 000 fighter besieging about 3000 Muslim, The Muslims exiled the Jews from Madina to Khaiber region (now in Saudi Arabia) applying war rules against them. (If they resort to peace, resort to peace) (And abide by your treaties and word when you give your pledges) These are Quranic phrases addressing Islam prophet. No for war, no for slavery any more. War in Islam is only permissible for self defending

 

[England my lionheart]

This is obsolete Imam. The topic is so complex. Taking loots and captivating the conquered folks as slaves was a tradition centuries before Islam. Muslims taken captives were treated in a heinous way not only as slaves and sex tools but in addition were tortured badly because of the new creed. Islam fought slavery in different ways. Emancipating a slave is a religious act enormously reward able by God. If a Muslim unintentionally committed a man-slaughter or failed to fast one day in Ramadan without an obvious reason, his expiation is to free a slave. In such ways slavery was non-existent any more in Islamic Countries. All ways of enslaving were prohibited by Islam except captivating in war as Muslim captives were treated the same way and even worse as they were tortured in the past. Current international laws prohibit such acts and Islam all through history respected all his treaties with the Non-Muslims unless these treaties were not respected by the other side. Muhammed agreed a treaty with the Jews in Madina, the first Capital of Islam. This treaty allowed the Jews to live free in all aspect of life as long as they are not showing any enmity towards the Muslim. They violated the treaty by conspiring with the infidels and participated in a big plot to eradicate Islam during what was known as Elahzab Battle. After the battle was over with a miraculous defeat of 10 000 fighter besieging about 3000 Muslim, The Muslims exiled the Jews from Madina to Khaiber region (now in Saudi Arabia) applying war rules against them. (If they resort to peace, resort to peace) (And abide by your treaties and word when you give your pledges) These are Quranic phrases addressing Islam prophet. No for war, no for slavery any more. War in Islam is only permissible for self defending

Over 700 Jews were executed in Medina and the women and children taken as slaves.

It started with the banu Kainuka,after the siege on them they were exiled,next the siege of the banu al-nadir,they too surrendered and they too we're allowed to leave,this left only the banu kairaza,they too surrendered after a siege but weren't so fortunate,over 700 men executed and women and children taken as slaves,turned out to be a great land deal.

 

[Baroodi]

Over 700 Jews were executed in Medina and the women and children taken as slaves.

It started with the banu Kainuka,after the siege on them they were exiled,next the siege of the banu al-nadir,they too surrendered and they too we're allowed to leave,this left only the banu kairaza,they too surrendered after a siege but weren't so fortunate,over 700 men executed and women and children taken as slaves,turned out to be a great land deal.

Over 700 Jews were executed in Medina and the women and children taken as slaves.

It started with the banu Kainuka,after the siege on them they were exiled,next the siege of the banu al-nadir,they too surrendered and they too we're allowed to leave,this left only the banu kairaza,they too surrendered after a siege but weren't so fortunate,over 700 men executed and women and children taken as slaves,turned out to be a great land deal.

fighters were executed for their betrayal. The context of the time dictated that approach. The followers of the new religion in Madina were about 3000 including women and children surrounded by enemies all over the Arab peninsula who were worshiping statues. It is hard to release a fighter to rejoin the enemy who is going to attack you again. It was a war for existence.

 

[England my lionheart]

fighters were executed for their betrayal. The context of the time dictated that approach. The followers of the new religion in Madina were about 3000 including women and children surrounded by enemies all over the Arab peninsula who were worshiping statues. It is hard to release a fighter to rejoin the enemy who is going to attack you again. It was a war for existence.

More like a war of conquest imo, and although beheading over 700 people and taking of slaves was not that unusual for a warlord in that era,not what you would expect from a prophet of a religion of peace.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

fighters were executed for their betrayal. The context of the time dictated that approach. The followers of the new religion in Madina were about 3000 including women and children surrounded by enemies all over the Arab peninsula who were worshiping statues. It is hard to release a fighter to rejoin the enemy who is going to attack you again. It was a war for existence.

Here's the thing though. Muhammad is supposedly a moral exemplar for all to follow (because of his direct link to Allah), or so we're led to believe. So justifying his barbaric actions in the context of the supposedly less-morally-enlightened people around him is trying to have your cake and eat it. Muhammad is either above other people morally (in which case you can't use their actions as a benchmark for justifying his) or he is not (in which case it's fine). But not both.

I also get the distinct impression there was more to it but we're missing this because Muslims, being the victors, wrote the history. It wouldn't at all surprise me if Muhammad had them put to death out of spite because they wouldn't accept him as a prophet.

The non-Muslims weren't worshipping statues any more than you pray to a cube, by the way. They were worshipping gods other than your own.

 

[Baroodi]

Here's the thing though. Muhammad is supposedly a moral exemplar for all to follow (because of his direct link to Allah), or so we're led to believe. So justifying his barbaric actions in the context of the supposedly less-morally-enlightened people around him is trying to have your cake and eat it. Muhammad is either above other people morally (in which case you can't use their actions as a benchmark for justifying his) or he is not (in which case it's fine). But not both.

I also get the distinct impression there was more to it but we're missing this because Muslims, being the victors, wrote the history. It wouldn't at all surprise me if Muhammad had them put to death out of spite because they wouldn't accept him as a prophet.

The non-Muslims weren't worshipping statues any more than you pray to a cube, by the way. They were worshipping gods other than your own.

may be acceptable logic if you are talking about our current time. In that context it is not. up to date in some parts treason punishment is the capital punishment. Not only that, now people are being assassinated by governments with pleas like fighting terrorism. They were targeted by drones, jet fighters rockets. You know you will be in wars for decades to come and you are just burgeoning, you need to de-teeth your fighter foe. men unable to carry weapons were let to go with their creed. If Muhammad was cruel and against humanity he could kill all men including those able to reproduce. He used to say instead of destructing his enemies: God may bring out of their backs progenies that worship God.

 

[sooda]

Over 700 Jews were executed in Medina and the women and children taken as slaves.

It started with the banu Kainuka,after the siege on them they were exiled,next the siege of the banu al-nadir,they too surrendered and they too we're allowed to leave,this left only the banu kairaza,they too surrendered after a siege but weren't so fortunate,over 700 men executed and women and children taken as slaves,turned out to be a great land deal.

More like 90 men were executed since they asked to be judged on the law of the Torah.

 

[Baroodi]

More like a war of conquest IM, and although beheading over 700 people and taking of slaves was not that unusual for a warlord in that era,not what you would expect from a prophet of a religion of peace.

After about 13 years of the prophet emigration to Madina after being obliged to leave his home in Mecca with all new believers and after 3 bitter wars against the infidels the prophet entered Macca in in superpower nearly 100 000 Muslim fighters (all converted within this short period. He called out on the infidels who were looking with skewed eyes: What do you think I am going to do with you? (they were oppressing, torturing and killing Muslims on daily bases before this). They said to him: You are a noble brother and the son of a noble brother. He said to them: Go, you are free. They didn't retaliate on bloods or on nerves, they set the enemy free after they dominated. After this conquest almost all Mecca converted to Islam without coercion. These two contexts are different my dear.

 

[England my lionheart]

After about 13 years of the prophet emigration to Madina after being obliged to leave his home in Mecca with all new believers and after 3 bitter wars against the infidels the prophet entered Macca in in superpower nearly 100 000 Muslim fighters (all converted within this short period. He called out on the infidels who were looking with skewed eyes: What do you think I am going to do with you? (they were oppressing, torturing and killing Muslims on daily bases before this). They said to him: You are a noble brother and the son of a noble brother. He said to them: Go, you are free. They didn't retaliate on bloods or on nerves, they set the enemy free after they dominated. After this conquest almost all Mecca converted to Islam without coercion. These two contexts are different my dear.

They are,in Medina he conquered and 750 Jews were executed,I mentioned before,the surahs supposedly revealed in mecca we're peaceful but the ones revealed in Medina are violent.

 

[England my lionheart]

9

More like 90 men were executed since they asked to be judged on the law of the Torah.

90 or 750 it was murder,anyway it strays from the topic of slaves or "what your right hand posseses" but just as a passing note from ibnnishaq:

Muhammad assembled the Jews of the Banu Qaynuqa in the marketplace in Medina and addressed them as follows: “O Jews, beware lest God bring upon you the vengeance that he brought upon Quraysh and become Muslims.

Chop chop time and for the women and children slavery,the easiest way to emancipate is not to take slaves in the first place but if you have a slave woman and you rape her there is no blame on her,wonderful and how grateful she would be.

 

[Baroodi]

They are,in Medina he conquered and 750 Jews were executed,I mentioned before,the surahs supposedly revealed in mecca we're peaceful but the ones revealed in Medina are violent.

Yes. Islam means peace. But when Muslims came under aggression, they were allowed to fight back. This happened in Madina. The verses you say are violent are talking about self defending not attacking and transgressing( And do not offend, Indeed God doesn't like offenders) (If they resorted to peace, resort to peace) (God doses`t prevent you from being fair and dealing amicably with the Non-Muslim if they are not fighting you or driving you out of your houses) (Noble Quran addressing Mohammed and Muslims). Please pick a single verse supporting what you are saying