Can Islamic and Christian Theological Concepts of God be reconciled?

[Dawnofhope]

I would add another choice. "There are some things in common"

Both can say yes 'God is one' but the oneness means something different
Both can say it is arrogant to assert God would adopt you as his child but if God so chooses to do so it would be arrogant to say he cannot
Both can say sin leads to death and condemnation but there is a stunning mercy in God
Both can say Jesus is sinless, virgin born, Messiah, prophet and coming again
Both oppose idol caricatures of God, some of the most serious being idols of the heart where a very religious person makes God into a caricature of himself and may even be unmerciful in the process and very un God like.
Both can agree the Psalms, Torah and Gospels are from God
Both can agree Abraham as friend of God is key to salvation coming to the world
Both can agree that truth matters
Both can agree people are fallible and should love truth but don't always articulate it perfectly
Both agree God speaks to man through his word

There is significant overlap

I find your post insightful and cognisant to some degree as to what Muhammad taught.

Baha’is uphold the Sonship of Jesus as a Divine mystery that should be upheld. However, it is clear that God did not have a Son Jesus in exactly the same manner as you and I may have a son. So Muhammad invites us to consider the manner in which Jesus is not literally a son. This appears to contradict Christ’s claim to be the Son of God but actually encourages us to consider more deeply the nature of Christ. In like manner Jesus is both God and not God. The statements appear to contradict but we must understand the manner in which each Teaching is both true and false: As Jesus taught that we must be born again, we must understand Him figuratively not literally.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Hi Adrian! I would add one more option to the poll ; (5) "To a point". Simply because Christianity is such a diverse religion. Can Islam be reconciled to Trinitarian Christianity? IMO ,not really, as this is considered by Islam to be a form of Polytheism. Non Trinitarian Christianity may have a better chance of some reconciliation. My friend @Godobeyer could no doubt give you a good informed opinion regarding this.

Hi David, thanks for posting. You must be one of my favourite Christians on RF. Your views are usually moderate and well considered.

The question posed is not can Christianity be united with Islam. Neither are agreed amongst themselves so agreement beyond their respective theological domains would be impossible. Rather I have asked anyone who cares to reflect on two apparently contradictory theologies if they can be seen to both originate from God and provide insight into His nature. Can we move beyond the dichotomies of two world views simultaneously declaring 'I’m right and you’re wrong'. I don’t know how you feel David but I’m definitely a half glass full person today. Less than half who have responded to my poll have said “No”. There’s great hope for humanity after all lol!

 

[whirlingmerc]

I find your post insightful and cognisant to some degree as to what Muhammad taught.

Baha’is uphold the Sonship of Jesus as a Divine mystery that should be upheld. However, it is clear that God did not have a Son Jesus in exactly the same manner as you and I may have a son. So Muhammad invites us to consider the manner in which Jesus is not literally a son. This appears to contradict Christ’s claim to be the Son of God but actually encourages us to consider more deeply the nature of Christ. In like manner Jesus is both God and not God. The statements appear to contradict but we must understand the manner in which each Teaching is both true and false: As Jesus taught that we must be born again, we must understand Him figuratively not literally.

There also may be area to reconcile in that Muslims reject the idea God would have some sexual encounter with Mary... but so do Christians... it is not a Christian view God had a sexual encounter with Mary and she remained a virgin.

In this and in the case of the Trinity both are taking past each other using different definitions. The muslim Trinity if God the father mother and son which Christians also reject in favor of Father Son and Spirit

 

[Dawnofhope]

The message of the Bible and the Quran is clear - the one to the other is evil, a lie and false. it is like comparing the similarities between God and Satan in the eyes of each of the belief systems.

Hi and welcome to RF. Thank you for reminding us the religious fanaticism exists within BOTH Islam and Christianity.

Historically neither religion abolished slavery or taught the full equality of men. Both religions have demonised the other and have adherents that still do.
We also need to distinguish between what the Messenger of God taught and what His so called followers claim He taught.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I say no, because religion did not originate with the universal sovereign. Religious divide is therefore just a progression from its roots.

Are you saying that Christianity is divided because it did not originate from God?

Only individuals - not religion - can be united in worship of the sovereign.

This is already happening - where those formally of various religions have been united in worship, of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob... according to scripture.
Genesis 22:18

Agreed.

 

[Dawnofhope]

At the same time, the Qur'an also openly attacks the Christian teaching of the Trinity: "God does not beget, nor is He begotten", as it says in the Qur'an--in direct and polemic contradiction to our Trinitarian theology. Christians who teach the Trinity are deceivers who lead astray the People of the Book, as the Qur'an states. Islam was intended as a correction and expansion of Christianity, and as such many of its claims and arguments are indeed by their very nature nothing other than attacks against what it perceives as false teachings held by the Christian religion.

Muhammad's Teachings could be seen as a further step in God's progressive revelation to humanity in the same manner that Christ's teachings were. Christ certainly corrected and clarified teachings in Judasim and He had the authority from God to do so. No doubt the Jewish people see the Teachings of Christ as an attack on Judaism in much the same way as many Christains view Islam.

Clearly the Quran speaks highly of Jesus, for example:

“O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion, and do not say anything concerning Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers . . . “ (Quran 4:171; see also 66:12).

In this passage Jesus is the Messiah, the Messenger of God, a Word from God, and a Spirit from God. In the same verse Muhammad seeks to discourage exaggeration in religion. Muhammad continues:

“Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His transcendent majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender”
(Quran 4:171).

The passage highlights that if Jesus was literally the 'son of God' then there woud be two Gods and this would contradict there being One God. The verse does not belittle Jesus but Glorifies God and proclaims His transcendent majesty.

The Quran confirms that Jesus was born of a virgin. When the angel announced to Mary that she will bear a child, she said:

“My Lord! How can I have a child when no mortal has touched me?"

She received the following reply:

“So (it will be). Allah creates what He will. If He decrees a thing, He says unto it only: Be! and it is."
(Quran 3: 45, 47).

In another surah, after relating the incidents surrounding the birth of the Messiah, the Quran concludes as follows:

“It befits not (the majesty of) Allah that He should take unto Himself a son. Glory be to Him! When he decrees a thing, He says unto it only: Be! and it is." (Qur’an 19:35).

It is also clear in the Quran that Muhammad's followers should believe in ALL the Messengers of God including Moses and Jesus.

Say, "We have believed in Allah and in what was revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Descendants, and in what was given to Moses and Jesus and to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [submitting] to Him."
(Quran 3:84)

The gospels that tells us of the life and Teachings of our Lord Jesus clearly identify Him as the 'Son of God' as opposed to the 'son of God'.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
John 3:16

An attack on Christianity? I don't see it that what at all.

 

[David1967]

Hi David, thanks for posting. You must be one of my favourite Christians on RF. Your views are usually moderate and well considered.

The question posed is not can Christianity be united with Islam. Neither are agreed amongst themselves so agreement beyond their respective theological domains would be impossible. Rather I have asked anyone who cares to reflect on two apparently contradictory theologies if they can be seen to both originate from God and provide insight into His nature. Can we move beyond the dichotomies of two world views simultaneously declaring 'I’m right and you’re wrong'. I don’t know how you feel David but I’m definitely a half glass full person today. Less than half who have responded to my poll have said “No”. There’s great hope for humanity after all lol!

I seldom if ever say impossible. There are indeed similarities between Islam and Christianity. But also things that are very different, as you know. Like you I am a glass half full kind of guy. I don't think Islam and Christianity will ever be completely reconciled. Christianity cannot even reconcile between different denominations. I do believe that Christianity and Islam can at the very least acknowledge their similarities and peacefully agree to disagree where different.

 

[MJ Bailey]

I seldom if ever say impossible. There are indeed similarities between Islam and Christianity. But also things that are very different, as you know. Like you I am a glass half full kind of guy. I don't think Islam and Christianity will ever be completely reconciled. Christianity cannot even reconcile between different denominations. I do believe that Christianity and Islam can at the very least acknowledge their similarities and peacefully agree to disagree where different.

Islam has been known to have the same problem with reconciliation. Just not as publicized or talked about.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I seldom if ever say impossible. There are indeed similarities between Islam and Christianity. But also things that are very different, as you know. Like you I am a glass half full kind of guy. I don't think Islam and Christianity will ever be completely reconciled. Christianity cannot even reconcile between different denominations. I do believe that Christianity and Islam can at the very least acknowledge their similarities and peacefully agree to disagree where different.

Its been an interesting thread to consider the spectrum of belief from fundamentalist exclusion to a more liberal inclusiveness.

Theological differences aside I see you own a music shop. What is your taste in music? I'm quite eclectic and listening to radiohead at the moment. I expect you would like Bruce Cockburn who is one of favourite Christian singer songwriters.

 

[Sunstone]

It is a well known fact that the judicious use of Colorado weed can reconcile any and all theological concepts.

 

[David1967]

It is a well known fact that the judicious use of Colorado weed can reconcile any and all theological concepts.

You may be on to something here Sunstone. Give weed to warring religious factions and watch em give peace a chance.

 

[David1967]

Its been an interesting thread to consider the spectrum of belief from fundamentalist exclusion to a more liberal inclusiveness.

Theological differences aside I see you own a music shop. What is your taste in music? I'm quite eclectic and listening to radiohead at the moment. I expect you would like Bruce Cockburn who is one of favourite Christian singer songwriters.

I dont actually listen to religious music . I like classic rock and metal. When I want to relax I like symphony music. The bands I have played in have all been rock.

 

[Sunstone]

You may be on to something here Sunstone. Give weed to warring religious factions and watch em give peace a chance.

I noticed that you rated my post "informative", David, and I could not help but wonder how you aim to use that information now that your state has legalized weed.

 

[David1967]

I noticed that you rated my post "informative", David, and I could not help but wonder how you aim to use that information now that your state has legalized weed.

I actually meant to rate it 'funny'.
I'm on my smart phone and hitting the right rating button is challenging. But regarding Oklahoma legalizing medical marijuana, I am exploring some business ideas. Such as either getting a permit to grow or open a dispensary. Have to wait and see where the state legislature lands on this thing.

 

[Dawnofhope]

It is a well known fact that the judicious use of Colorado weed can reconcile any and all theological concepts.

What are you Americans up to!? Does the judicious use of weed help explain the insanity of American politics?

I dont actually listen to religious music . I like classic rock and metal. When I want to relax I like symphony music. The bands I have played in have all been rock.

Bruce Cockburn is an excellent musician and has a social conscience. Its not religious music at all.

I used to play in a rock band too. Small matter of feeding my wife and children though!

 

[Sunstone]

I actually meant to rate it 'funny'.
I'm on my smart phone and hitting the right rating button is challenging. But regarding Oklahoma legalizing medical marijuana, I am exploring some business ideas. Such as either getting a permit to grow or open a dispensary. Have to wait and see where the state legislature lands on this thing.

Best of luck to you! Sounds like an excellent business opportunity.

Just FYI, there are dispensaries everywhere here. They can't all be losing money. I mean, there are tons of them!

 

[David1967]

What are you Americans up to!? Does the judicious use of weed help explain the insanity of American politics?



Bruce Cockburn is an excellent musician and has a social conscience. Its not religious music at all.

I used to play in a rock band too. Small matter of feeding my wife and children though!

I get it. My last gig was shortly after my son was born. I hung it up to enjoy being a Dad. Never regretted it.

 

[David1967]

Best of luck to you! Sounds like an excellent business opportunity.

Just FYI, there are dispensaries everywhere here. They can't all be losing money. I mean, there are tons of them!

Good to know. I got lots to learn before making a move. July 26 they start taking applications for growers and dispensaries. It costs $2500 just to apply. So I got some homework to do. My son is researching it too. One of my customers here in Oklahoma is partners with his daughter who lives in Colorado on a marijuana farm there. I'll pick his brain about it.

 

[Sunstone]

Good to know. I got lots to learn before making a move. July 26 they start taking applications for growers and dispensaries. It costs $2500 just to apply. So I got some homework to do. My son is researching it too. One of my customers here in Oklahoma is partners with his daughter who lives in Colorado on a marijuana farm there. I'll pick his brain about it.

Sounds like you're covering your bases. I'm especially happy to hear your son is pitching in, and that you've got a customer whose brain you can pick.

Just curious, but do you know yet whether you'd sell out of your existing store, assuming you decide to sell?

 

[Christ's Prophet]

29 jun 2018 stvdv 014 06

I believe religions can only meet if they drop the "my way is the highway" arrogance
Arrogance is known to blind the people. 2000 years of arrogance is "stone-blind"

This "my way is the highway" is the cause of many wars. Now we have more bombs
than ever. So if those 2 extinguish each other I think they can be reconciled
If not, I have to see it to believe it. I am not such a blind believer

So I choose for Possibly "if they extinguish each other"
Which mentally they do already for so many years
But I pray to God to open their eyes and stop doing that

Jesus said John 14:6 (KJV)
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
So you don’t like any religion who says, ‘my way is the highway,’ the question should be asked, ‘by what authority does He claim this?’ Well briefly, Jesus Christ was the One who died, was buried and He rose again from the dead. He is alive again and showed Himself and confirmed this fact before all those who knew Him. Thus He showed that He is the Lord of life and death. All the founders of all the other religions are either dead in their tombs or are dead and they stayed dead.
It sounds like you don’t like this or that about different gods. You cannot go into a spiritual supermarket and say, I’ll have a little bit of this god, and a little bit of that god, and I’ll make my own god. The question is not whether I like this god or that god, but which God is true and then work to understand that God. Challenging God as being arrogant will get you nowhere. If He is the true God and responsible for your existence, then He has the right be that way. Certainty for eternity.