greentwiga said:
Well, you are basing your conclusions on the Masoretic text. Look at the Septuagint text. The septuagint was translated from a Hebrew text much earlier than the Hebrew text we have. It puts the Exodus at ~1406 BC, Joseph and the entrance into Egypt at ~1625 BC, the Birth of Abraham at 1915 BC, and Noah's flood at ~2,980 BC. These numbers fit history much better than the Masoretic text numbers. It looks like someone, after the Septuagint was translated, tried to correct the numbers.
I grant you that the Septuagint puts Adam about 5,500 to 6,000 BC, not 4,000 BC of the Masoretic text, or the 9,000 BC I have suggested. I am researching the numbers to see what I can find. I have theories, but I don't trust my theories. My only point is that is there is some problem with the numbers, which seem the most likely to change, then we should look at all the other clues. They fit the end of the Younger Dryas, ~9,000 BC.
Yes, I know about the Septuagint, but even with the timeline as given in the Septuagint, as you have already said, it only amount to 5500 BCE at most. That's not 9000 BCE; so it is still off by 3500 years.
There are huge difference between several hundred years to several thousand years. And the Septuagint still don't match with that of your 9000 BCE.
And I don't believe that the timeline of Septuagint is any more accurate HISTORICALLY than the timeline from the Masoretic Text.
greentwiga said:
Well, you are basing your conclusions on the Masoretic text. Look at the Septuagint text. The septuagint was translated from a Hebrew text much earlier than the Hebrew text we have.
True, the Septuagint is older than the Masoretic Text (MT).
But you are forgetting one thing: the Dead Sea Scrolls.
However, the Septuagint is still a translation of the original Hebrew sources. Second, we have the Dead Sea Scrolls (DDS). Third, just because the Greek Septuagint is older, it doesn't mean the list of years (in the genealogy) accurate or the original ones. And you have to consider that the not all figures in Septuagint manuscripts (eg Vaticanus and Alexandrian codices) match each other (especially the Genesis genealogy); so there are inconsistencies with numbers (like years), when you compare the Greek sources.
In the Genesis, we only have the Masoretic Text and the Septuagint that give us two complete timelines. While in the DSS, the timeline of Genesis genealogy is not complete. The DSS only give us only 2 extant verses.
So I will give 2 passages to that same verse with that DSS verses:
Genesis 5:13-14 said:
13 καὶ ἔζησεν Καιναν μετὰ τὸ γεννῆσαι αὐτὸν τὸν Μαλελεηλ ἑπτακόσια καὶ τεσσαράκοντα ἔτη καὶ ἐγέννησεν υἱοὺς καὶ θυγατέρας
14 καὶ ἐγένοντο πᾶσαι αἱ ἡμέραι Καιναν ἐννακόσια καὶ δέκα ἔτη καὶ ἀπέθανεν
LXX Septuagint
13 And Cainan lived after his begetting Maleleel,
seven hundred and forty years, and he begot sons and daughters.
14 And all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years, and he died.
Translation by Sir Lancelot C. L. Brenton 1851
(Note that the Brenton's translation is based on the Alexandrian Codex (manuscript).
Genesis 5:13-14 said:
13 וַיְחִ֣י קֵינָ֗ן אַחֲרֵי֙ הֹולִידֹ֣ו אֶת־מַֽהֲלַלְאֵ֔ל אַרְבָּעִ֣ים שָׁנָ֔ה וּשְׁמֹנֶ֥ה מֵאֹ֖ות שָׁנָ֑ה וַיֹּ֥ולֶד בָּנִ֖ים וּבָנֹֽות׃
14 וַיִּֽהְיוּ֙ כָּל־יְמֵ֣י קֵינָ֔ן עֶ֣שֶׂר שָׁנִ֔ים וּתְשַׁ֥ע מֵאֹ֖ות שָׁנָ֑ה וַיָּמֹֽת׃
Masoretic Text, Westminister Leningrad Codex (WLC)
13 After the birth of Mahalalel, Kenan lived
840 years and begot sons and daughters.
14 All the days of Kenan came to 910 years; then he died.
New Jewish Publication Society (NJPS, 1985)
Genesis 5:13-14 said:
[13 And] Kenan [lived
eight hundred and forty years after he became the father of Mahalalel, and had other sons and daughters.
14 So all the days of Kenan were nine hundred and ten years, and he died.]
The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible, 2012
Abegg, Flint & Ulrich
As you can see, the Greek source, say that Kenan (Cainan) lived another 740 years (at age 170), after the birth of his son Mahalalel (Maleleel). While the Hebrew sources (both MT & DSS) say that Kenan lived another 840 years, after the birth of his son, hence at age 70.
The DSS may not be as old as the Septuagint, it is only a century or two younger than the Septuagint.
If DSS's Genesis 5:13-14 has the same years as the Masoretic Text, then it more than possible that the Hebrew sources (for the genealogy or chronicle) match in other passages.
When it come to years or other numbers, the Dead Sea Scrolls seemed to match the Masoretic Text more than the Septuagint.
