Call no man Father

[Ingledsva]

If you look at the title of the chapter it would clue you in to who they are referring to. All 10,000 instructors may be called Stewards but not all Stewards are called Apostles. Only the Apostles write scripture.

◄ 1 Corinthians 4 ►
New International Version
The Nature of True Apostleship

1This, then, is how you ought to regard us: as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the mysteries God has revealed. 2Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful. 3I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. 4My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.5Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God.

Pure bull, - the majority of the Apostles wrote nothing. Later followers wrote those books.

As well as the fact that we have the Tanakh FATHER references - and NT ones.

And the text - as shown - tells us it's exact meaning.

1Co 1:1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

1Co 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

1Co 4:1 Let a man so account of us (the 10,000), as of - the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.

1Co 4:2 Moreover it is required in stewards (οἰκονόμος PREACHERs), that a man be found faithful.

1Co 4:17 For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.

1Co 9:13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

1Co 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

He is calling on newer baptized followers to stop their continuation of some pagan things, and their infighting, and to become preachers.

Read the whole book from 1:1 to 16:1.

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[Ingledsva]

He is a prophet, that's what prophets do, The Lord spoke through them, and what the Lord says becomes scripture.

Prophets prophesize, and preach.

As usual you folks are adding to what the texts actually say.

*

 

[Kemosloby]

Pure bull, - the majority of the Apostles wrote nothing. Later followers wrote those books.

As well as the fact that we have the Tanakh FATHER references - and NT ones.

And the text - as shown - tells us it's exact meaning.

1Co 1:1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

1Co 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

1Co 4:1 Let a man so account of us (the 10,000), as of - the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.

1Co 4:2 Moreover it is required in stewards (οἰκονόμος PREACHERs), that a man be found faithful.

1Co 4:17 For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.

1Co 9:13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

1Co 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

He is calling on newer baptized followers to stop their continuation of some pagan things, and their infighting, and to become preachers.

Read the whole book from 1:1 to 16:1.

*

He isn't calling them fathers.

 

[Kemosloby]

Prophets prophesize, and preach.

As usual you folks are adding to what the texts actually say.

*

No prophets deliver the word of God. Which is why they are all the time saying "The Lord Sayeth", They were delivering the message of God. Priests don't do that, priests later refer to what the prophets say the Lord Sayeth as scripture, open their Tanaks to read what is said and teach it to the people, or preach if you prefer.

 

[Ingledsva]

No prophets deliver the word of God. Which is why they are all the time saying "The Lord Sayeth", They were delivering the message of God. Priests don't do that, priests later refer to what the prophets say the Lord Sayeth as scripture, open their Tanaks to read what is said and teach it to the people, or preach if you prefer.

If you bother to read Tanakh - you will find that they preached as well, - reminding the people of past sins, and retributions of YHVH, and what the requirements were, etc.

And obviously later prophets taught the earlier prophets, which is what preachers do.

Why would Elijah have a student Elisha - if Elisha wasn't learning how and what to preach?

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[lostwanderingsoul]

Call no man father. But in the Catholic church the priest is called father and the Pope is the Holy Father. This is what God was warning against. God is your Heavenly Father and no priest or pope should be called by that title. There is nothing wrong with calling your biological parent father but no man should take the place of yur Heavenly Father. Just another way the Catholic church makes its own rules and disregards the instructions of God.

 

[Phantasman]

There are no capitalized F's in the Greek sentences given.

*

Doesn't matter. What matters is what the translator intends for one to see. The Spirit reveals truth despite language barriers through the visions of the mind.

Truth did not come into the world naked, but it came in types and images. The world will not receive truth in any other way. There is a rebirth and an image of rebirth. It is certainly necessary to be born again through the image. Which one? Resurrection. The image must rise again through the image. The bridal chamber and the image must enter through the image into the truth: this is the restoration. Not only must those who produce the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, do so, but have produced them for you. If one does not acquire them, the name ("Christian") will also be taken from him.- Gospel of Philip

The orthodox follow the image of what flesh speaks over what spirit reveals through seeking it. They trust the Priests (leaders) and Scribes (script translators and copy) over the images the spirit produces.

Christ warned to follow neither.

Matthew:
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Thomas says it a bit clearer:
(39) Jesus said, "The pharisees and the scribes have taken the keys of knowledge (gnosis) and hidden them. They themselves have not entered, nor have they allowed to enter those who wish to. You, however, be as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves."

The very books that shows the fallacies in orthodox thought, are trying to be kept from the spiritual seeker. It's a power over the flesh maneuver.

Just what I see after decades of prayer and study.

 

[Phantasman]

Call no man father. But in the Catholic church the priest is called father and the Pope is the Holy Father. This is what God was warning against. God is your Heavenly Father and no priest or pope should be called by that title. There is nothing wrong with calling your biological parent father but no man should take the place of yur Heavenly Father. Just another way the Catholic church makes its own rules and disregards the instructions of God.

The word father means to sire (a creation of ones self). The word "desire" in it's root form means "of the father". Man sires man, spirit sires spirit.

Our "desire" is changed to spirit (of the Father) from flesh (and it's desires).

We don't follow a fleshly Jesus but "desire" to become a spiritual Christ as he was. The word Christ is taken from the word chrism, which is the anointing of the Spirit. The (RCC) Nicene Creed changed all of that, as well as taking the word "saints" and applying it to church leaders (over the believers of Christs church, the congregation, as Paul taught).

 

[Phantasman]

Jesus said the law was never meant to prohibit anyone from doing good. Since God is good anything God does is for good purpose, So God telling Moses to make the graven image was not breaking the law. The graven images prohibited are the ones devised by men.

The Ark of the Covenant was the throne of God created by Gods design so I guess that is ok too.

The Ark was a physical thing. The Father has nothing to do with physical, but spiritual. The Arks importance was equal to the importance of water in baptism. The sword (of Jesus) divided the two.

 

[Phantasman]

I'm not a fan of kneeling before images. If somebody does, I don't think it's wrong unless they consider the image to be God , and I don't know anybody that does.

Ancient Israelites prostrated themselves before the Ark of the Covenant. God met them between two graven images. God also asked Moses to create a graven Serpent , and all who looked at it were healed.

If images were so wrong, I would think surely Jesus or one of the authors of the New Testament would have condemned such practices.

I wouldn't follow Moses myself. Whatever messages he taught wasn't from the Father as Christs (clear) message was.

John:
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.

I dropped the OT as having no spiritual benefit over the teaching of the Gospel. Christ tried, but when the OT ideology killed him, the words "it is finished" was all the Jews were going to get. Paul was the Jew that took the Gospel to the Gentiles and succeeded. The Jews wouldn't have anything to do with Paul. The orthodox became Jewish/Christian. The "Gnostics: were Christian by Paul. The teachings by Paul grew (spiritual gnosis). The orthodox stopped growing. The orthodox killed the Gnostics by the OT beliefs, just as the OT beliefs killed Jesus.

Seek for yourself. It's all historic content.

 

[syo]

Matthew 23:9
And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

he means ''father'' as the creator.

 

[David T]

Matthew 23:9
And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

What a stupid thing to say. This is why I don't believe the Bible is the word of God. I don't think God would contradict himself so much.

Earlier he said honor your father and your mother.

Acts 7:2, where Stephen refers to "our father Abraham," or in Romans 9:10, where Paul speaks of "our father Isaac."
Then Paul said
1 Corinthians 4:15
for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.

This is one example of why I had to say goodbye to the Bible. I don't think the God who created the universe would do such a pitiful job and contradict himself so much, were he indeed to give us a book written by him.

Supposedly Jesus also said call no man your teacher. There's lots of contradiction there too. I don't believe Jesus ever said any such thing.

I don't think he was that stupid.

Stop doing this with the bible it's unhealthy nonsense even though everyone else does it stop being normal.

Start here and it will lead you there.

 

[Kemosloby]

The Ark was a physical thing. The Father has nothing to do with physical, but spiritual. The Arks importance was equal to the importance of water in baptism. The sword (of Jesus) divided the two.

The Ark was his throne. I recall when he appeared shrouded in a cloud, a cloud is physical, they were baptized in the cloud and crossing the Red Sea.

1 cor 10 1I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud, and that they all passed through the sea. 2They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.3They all ate the same spiritual food 4and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

 

[Phantasman]

The Ark was his throne. I recall when he appeared shrouded in a cloud, a cloud is physical, they were baptized in the cloud and crossing the Red Sea.

1 cor 10 1I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud, and that they all passed through the sea. 2They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.3They all ate the same spiritual food 4and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

See what Paul says in more understanding:

3 And did all eat the f]">[f]same spiritual g]">[g]meat,

4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink (for they drank of the spiritual Rock that h]">[h]followed them: and the Rock was i]">[i]Christ.)

Moses led them correctly, but Christ oversaw them.

5 But with many of them God was not pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

6 j]">[j]Now these things are our k]">[k]examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted.

7 Neither be ye idolaters as were some of them, as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

The power of the Spirit was not "within" them, as Christ brought it within men after the resurrection.

8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed fornication, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

9 Neither let us tempt l]">[l]Christ, as some of them also tempted him, and were destroyed of serpents.

10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. (the god of the flesh)

11 Now all these things came unto them for examples, and were written to admonish (meaning to warn) us, upon whom the m]">[m]ends of the world are come.

12 n]">[n]Wherefore, let him that thinketh he standeth, take heed lest he fall.

In the end, the Hebrews still died, awaiting Christ while in Hades (the deep sleep). The OT god never saved man. He couldn't. Their faith in "spirit" saved those who didn't falter.

Paul is showing the fall of the Jews, and how quickly they fell because they didn't have spiritual faith, but followed the (god of the) flesh instead. It led Moses to give the "law (of the flesh)" which he goes on to explain.

We are no long under the flesh, but the Spirit (capital S).

Paul:
That that righteousness of the Law might be fulfilled in us, which walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.(again, capital S) There is spirit and Spirit. The Jews followed spirit, that saved many, but did not have Spirit as Christ gave us.

 

[Kemosloby]

See what Paul says in more understanding:

3 And did all eat the f]">[f]same spiritual g]">[g]meat,

4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink (for they drank of the spiritual Rock that h]">[h]followed them: and the Rock was i]">[i]Christ.)

Moses led them correctly, but Christ oversaw them.

5 But with many of them God was not pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

6 j]">[j]Now these things are our k]">[k]examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted.

7 Neither be ye idolaters as were some of them, as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

The power of the Spirit was not "within" them, as Christ brought it within men after the resurrection.

8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed fornication, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

9 Neither let us tempt l]">[l]Christ, as some of them also tempted him, and were destroyed of serpents.

10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. (the god of the flesh)

11 Now all these things came unto them for examples, and were written to admonish (meaning to warn) us, upon whom the m]">[m]ends of the world are come.

12 n]">[n]Wherefore, let him that thinketh he standeth, take heed lest he fall.

In the end, the Hebrews still died, awaiting Christ while in Hades (the deep sleep). The OT god never saved man. He couldn't. Their faith in "spirit" saved those who didn't falter.

Paul is showing the fall of the Jews, and how quickly they fell because they didn't have spiritual faith, but followed the (god of the) flesh instead. It led Moses to give the "law (of the flesh)" which he goes on to explain.

We are no long under the flesh, but the Spirit (capital S).

Paul:
That that righteousness of the Law might be fulfilled in us, which walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.(again, capital S) There is spirit and Spirit. The Jews followed spirit, that saved many, but did not have Spirit as Christ gave us.

hmmm, no. I think you need to start over.

 

[Phantasman]

hmmm, no. I think you need to start over.

I think I need to follow my Father and you follow yours. 40 years of seeking, study and prayer has it's benefits over others who believe more in men than in where the Spirit leads them. Words have been changed, added and removed over the millennia, but the Spirit remains the same.

The same Spirit that showed Paul shows us. Those who don't have faith in it, rely on doctrines of men.

 

[Kemosloby]

I think I need to follow my Father and you follow yours. 40 years of seeking, study and prayer has it's benefits over others who believe more in men than in where the Spirit leads them. Words have been changed, added and removed over the millennia, but the Spirit remains the same.

The same Spirit that showed Paul shows us. Those who don't have faith in it, rely on doctrines of men.

Yeah, I see where you're coming from. Putting you on ignore.

 

[Phantasman]

Yeah, I see where you're coming from. Putting you on ignore.

Lucky me.

 

[Ingledsva]

Doesn't matter. What matters is what the translator intends for one to see. The Spirit reveals truth despite language barriers through the visions of the mind.

....

Translators have been known to err.

I was just stating the facts, - no capital "F'" in that Greek sentence. -

since you said - "Using Father (capital F) and father (small f) gives a revealing of it's own. Jesus used the small f to show the things of flesh, something we are not to follow (over the spirit)."

*

 

[kjw47]

Matthew 23:9
And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

What a stupid thing to say. This is why I don't believe the Bible is the word of God. I don't think God would contradict himself so much.

Earlier he said honor your father and your mother.

Acts 7:2, where Stephen refers to "our father Abraham," or in Romans 9:10, where Paul speaks of "our father Isaac."
Then Paul said
1 Corinthians 4:15
for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.

This is one example of why I had to say goodbye to the Bible. I don't think the God who created the universe would do such a pitiful job and contradict himself so much, were he indeed to give us a book written by him.

Supposedly Jesus also said call no man your teacher. There's lots of contradiction there too. I don't believe Jesus ever said any such thing.

I don't think he was that stupid.

Actually that was speaking in a spiritual teacher sense not a dad sense.