"CA Mayor Removes Pledge of Allegiance from Meetings Because Trump is the Worst"

[dianaiad]

If I say "I love you" while I'm beating you with a belt, what message are you recieving?

What part of 'do it without words' went whoosh?

Even your example REQUIRED WORDS for you to 'show' me.

....and what about reciting the Pledge of Allegiance shows you deeds that negate the words being recited, except in your imagination?

 

[dianaiad]

Alternatively: :insert image of middle finger:

You used words there, too.

 

[dianaiad]

Lets look at Trump. He said he would protect transgender rights. However, he chose Pence (who is vehemently anti-LGBT) as his running mate, he made it so the CDC can't use the word transgender, he rescended Obama's Title IX thingy, and he quit allowing transgender people to serve in the military. He said one thing, but did the exact opposite. Actions speak louder than words. When politicians take their silly oaths, it's just words of theater and ritual spoken to the air. And clearly their actions are often very different than the words they spoke.

Quite often, this is true. On the other hand, he certainly did keep a bunch of his campaign promises...,more than most, certainly. That may be the problem for some.

But what has that got to do with, say....me....reciting the Pledge of Allegiance? I'll admit that more often than I should, I'm just doing it as part of the ceremony that starts things....like class. When I think about it, though, more often than not reciting the words makes me THINK about them. There's no hypocrisy being exhibited there.

IMO, the only people seeing hypocrisy are those who disagree with the opinions of the people reciting the words. However, a difference of opinion does not mean that the other guy is being a hypocrite. It's quite possible that 'the other guy" is quite sincere in his beliefs, no matter how much you dislike them.

Mind you, I'm a great deal more likely to find hypocrisy in people who decry in Trump actions and policies they were FINE with when Obama had them, but hey....

 

[SoyLeche]

What part of 'do it without words' went whoosh?

Even your example REQUIRED WORDS for you to 'show' me.

....and what about reciting the Pledge of Allegiance shows you deeds that negate the words being recited, except in your imagination?

You’re being dense in purpose, right? Please tell me it’s an act.

 

[shmogie]

I see quite the opposite.
The Pledge is now used to divide us. It's just one of the ways we are becoming more fractured as a nation. That's the real point to The Pledge today. Divide the USA into "Conservative Christians" and everyone else.

Division. That's the point to it.
Tom

Indivisible, you know, like the CSA

 

[dianaiad]

You’re being dense in purpose, right? Please tell me it’s an act.

I'm dead serious, SoyLeche. And I'm making my point. You cannot show me deeds without using words to describe them, can you?

You choose the words you use according to your own biases and preformed conclusions. We all do that. You can SAY that 'actions speak louder than words,' but that only works if you actually see the actions. It doesn't work if those actions are actually being described to you by someone else who has made some judgment about those actions.

As well, what 'action' is 'speaking louder' than the words of the Pledge of Allegiance? Here's news: the people who actually SAY it probably believe, most sincerely, that they are the ones obeying the letter and spirit of those words, and that those who disagree with their politics are the hypocrites. Certainly there are no actions being performed by those who recite it which 'speak louder' than the words they are reciting.

As for you, it doesn't matter how often you try it, ad hominems are still logical fallacies and not responses to the content of a post.

In other words, my disagreement with you is not evidence that I'm the one being dense.

 

[SoyLeche]

I'm dead serious, SoyLeche. And I'm making my point. You cannot show me deeds without using words to describe them, can you?

I could if we were in the same room and I had a belt...

Note: I'm not saying I would, but I could.

 

[SoyLeche]

You used words there, too.

I wanted to post this but couldn't get it to work.

 

[SoyLeche]

You choose the words you use according to your own biases and preformed conclusions. We all do that. You can SAY that 'actions speak louder than words,' but that only works if you actually see the actions. It doesn't work if those actions are actually being described to you by someone else who has made some judgment about those actions.

As well, what 'action' is 'speaking louder' than the words of the Pledge of Allegiance? Here's news: the people who actually SAY it probably believe, most sincerely, that they are the ones obeying the letter and spirit of those words, and that those who disagree with their politics are the hypocrites. Certainly there are no actions being performed by those who recite it which 'speak louder' than the words they are reciting.

That was someone else's argument. My beef was with your assertion that "Words are the only things we poor humans have to communicate with."

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Quite often, this is true. On the other hand, he certainly did keep a bunch of his campaign promises...,more than most, certainly. That may be the problem for some.

He's probably been the most anti-gun president since Clinton, Mexico is not paying for the wall, American jobs are being hurt by his trade war, he's launched missile strikes and increased boots on the ground in places, he didn't drain the swamp, he's clinched a government fist in some areas, overall he hasn't been doing as well as his supporters want to think. He's had way more failures and broken promises than the average one realizes.
And, do not forget, words alone are such a small part of how we communicate. Non-verbal language ques and actions also communicate. And, words can be misleading and trivial with intention and meaning not even being attached to the words. Words, except for digital mediums such as this (and even then we have smilie thingies and stuff like lmao to denote what words cannot), are probably the least of the ways we communicate.

 

[dianaiad]

I could if we were in the same room and I had a belt...

Note: I'm not saying I would, but I could.

But we aren't in the same room, are we? You still aren't getting the point, and that's ironic, given that we are in a debate forum and we MUST use words to communicate.

 

[SoyLeche]

But we aren't in the same room, are we? You still aren't getting the point, and that's ironic, given that we are in a debate forum and we MUST use words to communicate.

Yet - that is NOT the only means humans have to communicate. That was your claim, and it is demonstrably false.

 

[dianaiad]

That was someone else's argument. My beef was with your assertion that "Words are the only things we poor humans have to communicate with."

They are. Unless one IS in a one-to-one situation, and even then.....

There is a reason humans USE language.

 

[SoyLeche]

They are. Unless one IS in a one-to-one situation, and even then.....

There is a reason humans USE language.

Still not true, as shown by the Colbert gif. Or by any number of pieces of art that have communicated things for millennia (well before the written word).

Words are usefull, but they are not the only means of communication.

 

[SoyLeche]

Neck tie on the dorm room door knob. Mom leaving your homework on your pillow. Disney's Fantasia. A simple half-note interval repeated over and over again communicates the fear of seeing a shark in the water better than any collection of words.

The methods of wordless communication are pretty much endless.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They are. Unless one IS in a one-to-one situation, and even then.....

There is a reason humans USE language.

Language includes spoken and written word. But it is so much more than that. A smile, for example, communicates no words. Not one single word. Yet it communicates a number of things to us, such as friendliness. Eye contact, vocal tone, body posture, so much is conveyed and "spoken" without saying a single word.

 

[dianaiad]

He's probably been the most anti-gun president since Clinton, Mexico is not paying for the wall, American jobs are being hurt by his trade war, he's launched missile strikes and increased boots on the ground in places, he didn't drain the swamp, he's clinched a government fist in some areas, overall he hasn't been doing as well as his supporters want to think. He's had way more failures and broken promises than the average one realizes.

You are counting Volkswagens on the freeway here.

You know how that goes...you only count Volkswagens on the road if you are looking for them, and then they are all over the place. You aren't looking at the promises he has kept.

For instance: he promised not to take a salary. He hasn't. He has donated his salary as POTUS to charity.
He promised to declare China a 'currency manipulator,' something that has official consequences and was NOT done by Obama. He did that.
He promised to roll back Obama's 'one-sided deal' for Cuba. He's doing that.
He promised NOT to cut Medicare or Medicaid, and in spite of Democrat claims to the contrary, he hasn't.
He promised to cut funding to 'sanctuary cities,' but hasn't done that. He should do that.
He promised to get other countries to pay more for joint defense. He's done that, through NATO
He promised to create a private White House hotline for veterans, with instructions that if a problem brought to them isn't fixed, he'd do so personally. He did that
He promised to slash federal regulations. "For every new federal regulation, two existing regulations must be eliminated" He's done that. THAT one may be why the Dems are so dead set out to get him.
He promised to place a life time ban on White House officials lobbying for a foreign government (something that previous officials did a lot) He did that
He promised to find a replacement for Antonin Scolia who was in the same 'mind-set." He did that.
He promised to move the American embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. He did that.
He promised to cancel the Paris climate agreement. He did that.
He promised to increase the American military. He's doing that.
He promised to provide six weeks of paid maternity leave to any mother whose employer doesn't do that. He's working on that.
He promised to allow insurance to compete across state lines. Working on that.
He's working on "free access to the drug market" and to give veterans a choice between care at the VA or government paid care with private insurance.
He promised to suspend immigration from terror prone places. He's done that.
He's promised to renegotiate NAFTA. He's doing that.
He promised to 'grow the economy by 4% a year. OK, he's only grown it by 3.4 % a year. That's a whole bunch better than OBAMA did, though, and in the words of James Carville, "It's the economy, stupid."
He promised to keep industry in America. He's doing a pretty good job of that...see the Carrier Company in Indiana
He said: If I become President, we're going to be saying Merry Christmas at every store You can leave (happy holidays) at the corner...Other religions can do what they want." Yep, he did that.
He promised to 'save the coal industry." He's making good strides at that.
He promised to restore manufacturing. He's doing a pretty good job at that.
He promised to reverse Obama's gun executive order. He did that very quickly.
He promised to scale back the EPA and get rid of it's more silly stuff. He's doing that.
(oh...example of 'silly stuff'....farmer down here got arrested and jailed for accidentally killing a kangaroo mouse when he plowed his field...a friend of ours wanted to build a house in Idaho and was refused permission to do so because of EPA regulations. Seems there were some trees in the way. the REASON the homeowner wanted to build his house elsewhere was because the current location was messing with a beaver pond. So...the guy chopped down the interfering trees, applied to build, again, was approved...and the local environment was vastly improved)

I got the above list from Politifact. They have quite a list of presidential promises that were actively blocked by the Dems....most of those along the list of the things you decry. Ah, well.

And, do not forget, words alone are such a small part of how we communicate. Non-verbal language ques and actions also communicate. And, words can be misleading and trivial with intention and meaning not even being attached to the words. Words, except for digital mediums such as this (and even then we have smilie thingies and stuff like lmao to denote what words cannot), are probably the least of the ways we communicate.

You are writing, with words, to someone who has spent her entire life dealing with words and modes of communication. The fact is, in terms of family and very close friends who live together, words are ALL we have. Even those symbols you mention...emojis and stuff...are 'words.' They are symbols that are used to communicate feelings and ideas that one cannot telepath.

Since we don't have telepathy, EVERYTHING we communicate is done in symbols....that is, 'words.' We've been watching...if you haven't been bored to sleepiness...the Senate trial. We CAN see how bored the Senate was with the Democrats...even the Democrats were bored with the Democrats...but we didn't know HOW bored until we were told...in words.

Everything we talk about in here uses symbols; words. We can't NOT use words. Even when we post cartoons and videos, we are using symbols....and words.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You are counting Volkswagens on the freeway here.

You know how that goes...you only count Volkswagens on the road if you are looking for them, and then they are all over the place. You aren't looking at the promises he has kept.

For instance: he promised not to take a salary. He hasn't. He has donated his salary as POTUS to charity.
He promised to declare China a 'currency manipulator,' something that has official consequences and was NOT done by Obama. He did that.
He promised to roll back Obama's 'one-sided deal' for Cuba. He's doing that.
He promised NOT to cut Medicare or Medicaid, and in spite of Democrat claims to the contrary, he hasn't.
He promised to cut funding to 'sanctuary cities,' but hasn't done that. He should do that.
He promised to get other countries to pay more for joint defense. He's done that, through NATO
He promised to create a private White House hotline for veterans, with instructions that if a problem brought to them isn't fixed, he'd do so personally. He did that
He promised to slash federal regulations. "For every new federal regulation, two existing regulations must be eliminated" He's done that. THAT one may be why the Dems are so dead set out to get him.
He promised to place a life time ban on White House officials lobbying for a foreign government (something that previous officials did a lot) He did that
He promised to find a replacement for Antonin Scolia who was in the same 'mind-set." He did that.
He promised to move the American embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. He did that.
He promised to cancel the Paris climate agreement. He did that.
He promised to increase the American military. He's doing that.
He promised to provide six weeks of paid maternity leave to any mother whose employer doesn't do that. He's working on that.
He promised to allow insurance to compete across state lines. Working on that.
He's working on "free access to the drug market" and to give veterans a choice between care at the VA or government paid care with private insurance.
He promised to suspend immigration from terror prone places. He's done that.
He's promised to renegotiate NAFTA. He's doing that.
He promised to 'grow the economy by 4% a year. OK, he's only grown it by 3.4 % a year. That's a whole bunch better than OBAMA did, though, and in the words of James Carville, "It's the economy, stupid."
He promised to keep industry in America. He's doing a pretty good job of that...see the Carrier Company in Indiana
He said: If I become President, we're going to be saying Merry Christmas at every store You can leave (happy holidays) at the corner...Other religions can do what they want." Yep, he did that.
He promised to 'save the coal industry." He's making good strides at that.
He promised to restore manufacturing. He's doing a pretty good job at that.
He promised to reverse Obama's gun executive order. He did that very quickly.
He promised to scale back the EPA and get rid of it's more silly stuff. He's doing that.
(oh...example of 'silly stuff'....farmer down here got arrested and jailed for accidentally killing a kangaroo mouse when he plowed his field...a friend of ours wanted to build a house in Idaho and was refused permission to do so because of EPA regulations. Seems there were some trees in the way. the REASON the homeowner wanted to build his house elsewhere was because the current location was messing with a beaver pond. So...the guy chopped down the interfering trees, applied to build, again, was approved...and the local environment was vastly improved)

I got the above list from Politifact. They have quite a list of presidential promises that were actively blocked by the Dems....most of those along the list of the things you decry. Ah, well.

They also have this:
Trump-O-Meter: Tracking Trump's Campaign Promises
17.8% kept
27.7% in the works
25.7% stalled
10.9% compromise
17.8% promises broken
Compared to Obama's 48.8% promises kept, and 24.2% broken

You are writing, with words, to someone who has spent her entire life dealing with words and modes of communication. The fact is, in terms of family and very close friends who live together, words are ALL we have. Even those symbols you mention...emojis and stuff...are 'words.' They are symbols that are used to communicate feelings and ideas that one cannot telepath.

Those symbols are non-verbal. They are communicated with no words at all. None. Some forms of body language and non-verbal communication--that is communication with no words--is so basic and common that throughout the animal kingdom one species can communicate to another through things like posture (such as puffing up).

 

[ecco]

You're too late....a quicker poster picked up on my joke first.

Your "joke"?

 

[ecco]

You are counting Volkswagens on the freeway here.

You know how that goes...you only count Volkswagens on the road if you are looking for them, and then they are all over the place. You aren't looking at the promises he has kept.

For instance: he promised not to take a salary. He hasn't. He has donated his salary as POTUS to charity.
He promised to declare China a 'currency manipulator,' something that has official consequences and was NOT done by Obama. He did that.

The U.S. Labeled China a Currency Manipulator. Here’s What It Means
The U.S. Labeled China a Currency Manipulator. Here’s What It Means
The move is mainly symbolic but will escalate tensions with Beijing.​

A weaker renminbi makes Chinese exports cheaper in the United States than they otherwise would be after tariffs
By Ana Swanson
​

• • Aug. 6, 2019

The Trump administration labeled China a currency manipulator on Monday, after China allowed the value of its currency to fall.

The designation — which the United States last used against China in 1994 — is more a symbolic move than a substantive one. But it dials up the pressure in a trade war that has rapidly escalated, harming businesses, consumers and others that depend on steady relations between the world’s two largest economies.​

What is the point you are trying to make - that Donald has no clue when it comes to international relations?

What is the point you are trying to make - that Donald's Sheeples have no clue when it comes to international relations?

What is the point you are trying to make - that Donald promises crap to his ignorant sheeples and then keeps those that harm his sheeples?

OK then, you made your point.