Busting gun-culture myths that always surface after mass shootings; let’s get real

[suncowiam]

Busting gun-culture myths that always surface after mass shootings; let’s get real

Second link:

Busting gun-culture myths that always surface after mass shootings; let’s get real

Interesting article from an author who claimed to have been "a gun enthusiast for more than 40 years."

Does any of the talking points ring a bell?

 

[Secret Chief]

Busting gun-culture myths that always surface after mass shootings; let’s get real

Interesting article from an author who claimed to have been "a gun enthusiast for more than 40 years."

Does any of the talking points ring a bell?

Link not working for me...?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Good read. It even touched up on why blaming mental illness is such an atrocious thing.

‘It’s not the guns, it’s mental health’
This one’s insidious because there is some truth to it.

We have failed to provide adequate mental health services in this country, which undoubtedly contributes to some people losing it and shooting up a theater, or concert, or school. And it’s easy to assume that anyone who would gun down 19 little kids, like in Texas last week, has mental problems.

But it does a disservice to millions of peaceful, functioning Americans who struggle with mental illnesses, prompting some not to seek treatment for fear of stigma and stereotyping. And it ignores the fact that people with mental illness are far more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators.

If somebody asks me to choose between adequate mental health funding and reasonable regulation of guns, my answer is the same as the little girl in the Old El Paso ad when asked to choose between soft or hard-shell tacos: “Why can’t we have both?”

 

[Polymath257]

Busting gun-culture myths that always surface after mass shootings; let’s get real

Interesting article from an author who claimed to have been "a gun enthusiast for more than 40 years."

Does any of the talking points ring a bell?

One of my best friends is a life long member of the NRA. He *wants* to suspend his membership, but the NRA refuses to take him off of their list.
The NRA no longer represents the 'sane gun owner'.

 

[esmith]

Looks like your link was taken down

 

[esmith]

One of my best friends is a life long member of the NRA. He *wants* to suspend his membership, but the NRA refuses to take him off of their list.
The NRA no longer represents the 'sane gun owner'.

And your point is?

 

[Viker]

Looks like your link was taken down

It's working fine.

 

[Revoltingest]

Good read. It even touched up on why blaming mental illness is such an atrocious thing.

Too many anti-gunners always reject the mental
health issue by claiming that it's not part of the
problem. A real world solution (unlike banning all
guns) should address that many of these shooters
have been in need of help, & didn't get it.
Moreover, We've no comprehensive program to
red flag them, & prevent them from gun possession.
I've other proposals, but I'll bore with those later.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Too many anti-gunners always reject the mental
health issue by claiming that it's not part of the
problem. A real world solution (unlike banning all
guns) should address that many of these shooters
have been in need of help, & didn't get it.
Moreover, We've no comprehensive program to
red flag them, & prevent them from gun possession.
I've other proposals, but I'll bore with those later.

We do need a completely different approach on this. This includes no longer blaming mental illness. Many shooters don't even have a prior history of mental illness. Yes, some are severely ill, but it still does no good to blame the illness as fault does lie in things such as no comprehensive system to help red flag and filter out potential buyers.

 

[Revoltingest]

We do need a completely different approach on this. This includes no longer blaming mental illness. Many shooters don't even have a prior history of mental illness. Yes, some are severely ill, but it still does no good to blame the illness as fault does lie in things such as no comprehensive system to help red flag and filter out potential buyers.

Perhaps I see "mental illness" as broader than you do.
Also, I don't "blame" it. But it's a factor in many, as are
anger, politics, & racism.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Busting gun-culture myths that always surface after mass shootings; let’s get real

Interesting article from an author who claimed to have been "a gun enthusiast for more than 40 years."

Does any of the talking points ring a bell?

He refutes his own first point.
"We have failed to provide adequate mental health services in this country, which undoubtedly contributes to some people losing it and shooting up a theater, or concert, or school."

Not very convincing.

 

[Wildswanderer]

We do need a completely different approach on this. This includes no longer blaming mental illness. Many shooters don't even have a prior history of mental illness. Yes, some are severely ill, but it still does no good to blame the illness as fault does lie in things such as no comprehensive system to help red flag and filter out potential buyers.

Lol, so blame an object instead of the reality of a broken mind...it doesn't do any good to blame what actually caused a person to become violent, let's avoid the root cause at all costs...

 

[suncowiam]

Looks like your link was taken down

I updated with a second link...

 

[suncowiam]

Link not working for me...?

I updated with a second link.

Thanks

 

[suncowiam]

Too many anti-gunners always reject the mental
health issue by claiming that it's not part of the
problem. A real world solution (unlike banning all
guns) should address that many of these shooters
have been in need of help, & didn't get it.
Moreover, We've no comprehensive program to
red flag them, & prevent them from gun possession.
I've other proposals, but I'll bore with those later.

Oh it's a problem, but not a problem in isolation.

It's a bigger problem when factored with guns.

You don't think other nations have mental health issues? Some how, other nations that have curbed there gun violence with gun control has less mental health issues than US?

Of all the factors, mental health is the one that you would expect to be normalized among all nations. Some cultures might even have more mental health issues given the culture like Japan. But given how many similar western countries like UK and Australia curbed their gun violence, no... Mental Health is a smoke screen to the real issue.

The pro-gunners like to debate that mental health IS THE ONLY ISSUE. It is not. The US is showing that the combination of mental health plus easy access of guns, then we have catastrophic gun violence.

 

[suncowiam]

Lol, so blame an object instead of the reality of a broken mind...it doesn't do any good to blame what actually caused a person to become violent, let's avoid the root cause at all costs...

Blame both.

Is that too hard to even consider?

 

[suncowiam]

Lol, so blame an object instead of the reality of a broken mind...it doesn't do any good to blame what actually caused a person to become violent, let's avoid the root cause at all costs...

Oh. I want to add, that it is not the object, but the gun culture available in the US.

It is the ease of access both legally, financially and lack of qualifications to own a gun in the US.

It is the not gun that is the issue.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Perhaps I see "mental illness" as broader than you do.
Also, I don't "blame" it. But it's a factor in many, as are
anger, politics, & racism.

You may not be blaming it, but society and media in general is overflowing with examples of blaming mental illness. And it's the crux of these frequent bombardments of bringing up mental illness after a mass shooting. It's lets those who live in la-la land keep their fantasies about mental illness and having control over their lives, it gives them an easy scapegoat while letting them completely and entirely ignore the fact they themselves are just one bad and unfortunate event away from mentally losing it.
And it lets those spewing completely ignore how spontaneous, spur of the moment violence is a massive chunk of gun deaths. This is the part the lets those in la-la land believe it's mental illness and they don't have to worry.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It is the ease of access both legally, financially and lack of qualifications to own a gun in the US.

Yes. It is entirely unacceptable that anywhere allows people to own guns and publicly carry them without training. That puts far too many people needlessly at risk because accidental gun deaths are already too high as it is.

 

[Revoltingest]

Oh it's a problem, but not a problem in isolation.

It's a bigger problem when factored with guns.

Agreed.

You don't think other nations have mental health issues?

Of course they do.
Do you agree?

Some how, other nations that have curbed there gun violence with gun control has less mental health issues than US?

Whether they do or don't, measures to improve
mental health for the vulnerable here is worthwhile,
not just for the violence problem, but also because
they need the help.

Mental Health is a smoke screen to the real issue.

You say there's a "real issue", & that to address others
is a "smokescreen". That smacks of single issue
politics, ie, a gun ban is the only solution.
That ignores the obvious fact that gun violence is a
multi-faceted problem. In our political environment, it
must be treated thus to make progress. Extremists who
want to just ban guns don't have either a legal basis, or
a majority consensus. This makes their view irrelevant
in negotiating a productive compromise.

The pro-gunners like to debate that mental health IS THE ONLY ISSUE. It is not.

I don't see anyone here claiming it.
Neither in the media, although it's certainly
possible by someone somewhere sometime.
If you want to argue against that view, I'm
not the one to defend it.

We also need regulation requiring....
- Secure storage
- Thorough training
- A comprehensive red flag system
regarding all gun transfers.