Burning the Koran...

[Jeremiah]

I'm not trying to devide anyone or incite anything other than talk.......I'm simply acknowleding the problem at it's core....us...all of us....

...we can hardly talk about it ourselves without everybody resorting to name calling....

Religion devides on a more primitave level than class or even race.....it's the fundamental division between these people who are better than those people.
Can't really preach to me about inciting prejudice.

"Can't really preach to me about inciting prejudice."

O? And why can't I?

 

[Jeremiah]

Thank the few on my limb

and to meow mix......this is the place, nobody bombing anyone here....

I decree in the name of my own made up god and by his power that no one shall die on this message board.
We(all of us) as free thinking individuals shall be able to kick this dead horse for as long as we like is it shall teach any of us anything about one another.

Average Joe american is a muslim hater.......tis a problem......most of us think we have good reason.
Why shouldn't we?

I started this post immediately after finishing the koran.... Perhaps a veil has been put over my eyes by God himself and I never had a chance anyway, but, I have the right to relate what it revealed to me in as harsh a words as I want. It is an issue worth getting to the bottom of(just because that prolly never happen, does not mean we shouldn't try.
My harsh observations and or opinions are not the bombs......and If somebody straps on a suicide belt and bombs anybody over MY words....then my point will be made for me.

I'm not fighting with anyone here.

and I still stand by most of my original ignorant american statements....cus uh, most of us jes be stupid ignit ol mericanos over here.

Not like any of us on this board are world leaders...are we? all we can change here is grass root....can't change squat if you don't deal with the issues and ask the hard questions.

I still say if 19 baptists did what 19 muslims did......every christian orginazation in the world from the Tennessee primitive bapt ministries all the way to the vatican would have been in utter roaring outrage.........
.......We didn't really get much of that from you majority of moderate muslims.
We are still a little raw bout that.
Point of that is...koran said to me that you guys already know we guys will fule the fires of hell. seems to US like you may be secretely applauding.

You are demonizing the many on the actions of the few. I mean if I portray all of Christianity by the actions of the KKK it would make it look like a bucket of vomit as well.

There are 1.5 billion Muslims in this world and the entirety should not be judge on the actions of the few. Btw, it is also estimated to be 5-8 million Muslims in American.

 

[142857]

why can you? I'm not....I'm stating opinions and forcing issues that need tackling....ON THE INTERNET(ooooooh).....I don't care if you hate me....your prejudice....I'm concerned.

Have I succomb to an opinion....yeah, prove me wrong.....

once again:
Idiot preacher in Fla. threatens to burn some books and half way round the world a mob starts burning and killing.....sounds like the work of primitave mislead religious zealots to me.
And where again is the moderate muslim outcry?

 

[Jeremiah]

...we can hardly talk about it ourselves without everybody resorting to name calling....

I have the right to relate what it revealed to me in as harsh a words as I want. It is an issue worth getting to the bottom of(just because that prolly never happen, does not mean we shouldn't try.

I see you can dish it out but you can't take it in.

The prejudice are all the same, as soon as it is pointed out to them they whine about "name calling". But we are just getting to the bottom of the issue here, and the bottom the issue is that this is nothing but ignorant prejudice.

 

[Kerr]

I don't promote war and I agree the USA has been involved in political wars I wouldn't stand for, but they were political, not religious.

In what way is a war based on ugly politics and better then one based on religion?

 

[Kerr]

why can you? I'm not....I'm stating opinions and forcing issues that need tackling....ON THE INTERNET(ooooooh).....I don't care if you hate me....your prejudice....I'm concerned.

Have I succomb to an opinion....yeah, prove me wrong.....

once again:
Idiot preacher in Fla. threatens to burn some books and half way round the world a mob starts burning and killing.....sounds like the work of primitave mislead religious zealots to me.
And where again is the moderate muslim outcry?

Do you need a "moderate Christian outcry" when a Christian commits an act of terror? Honestly, I just think many Muslims has gotten tired of this topic.

In a way I agree with you. That some people react with violence is a problem. I am a strong believer that we should be able to mock and make fun of everything (even though that doesn´t always mean that we should). But the solution is not to generalize all Muslims. I would say that only serves to make things worse.

 

[neves]

I started this thread to attempt to make a point.

The point: Islam has no place in a civilized society and is the formost religious shackle on the world.

Lets say, hypothetically,that I organize the largest bible burning in history. Lets pretend that I get massive ammounts of news coverage.
So, as the days lead up to my bonfire, what happens?
Tons of hate mail, organized christian protests. Thousands of people telling me I'm going to hell and that what I'm doing is wrong. A seemingly endless barrage of blogs, email, and prayers.

Now. What happens if a redneck preacher organizes a Koran burning? Half way around the world, people die!

Lets do another....let's hypothetically draw a cartoon of jesus, lets make it horribly lewd and make the messiah seem to endorse somthing disgusting, with a big smile on his face.

What happens then?.....................not much I tell you, not much.

Shall we draw a cartoon of Mohammed?......then who dies?

There is nothing about this sort of retalliation in the Koran.
This is not the way any civalized peoples conduct themselves.
Apparently, the Q'uran can only truly exist in Arabic, the Koran in english can only exist as a translation of the Q'uran....Thus "Mr. Get-my-church-on-TV" guy in Gainesville was only planning to burn books. Heck, the fact of the matter is that you can't very well destroy a book that's still in print.(not with a bonfire anyway)
So, all the idiot preacher really did was to send a message to muslims that himself, as well as all the people stupid enough to go throw money into his little fire, well, they hate you and they hate your religion.
Every muslim who ever has read a Quran should have already known that. The evils of infidels should be no surprise at all. Will not God sort them out and deal with them all and individually on that day of days?
As well, while it might be illegal it draw pictures or depict in any way of gods prophet in Islam. It is not however Illegal for me to draw a picture of anything I so choose. If I were to draw Mohammed in compromising positions with Jesus,
If....I DID THIS
and in turn, a mob of radicals trys to burn down an embassy half way round the world, and people with no connection to me die.......................who are the barbarians.
How could a Muslim read the Quran and still even pretend to be surprised at any such evil as we infidels may come up with?
How could a Muslim read the Quran and have any doubt that we have already brought the chastisement of God upon ourselves. We will not be delt with unjustly.
It's for men to choose....yet God will mislead whom he will, and he will guide who he will.

In Islam, for Gods plan to come to fruition, "the Inevitable". God will need many infidels so that he may indeed fill the furnaces of hell to the brim as he promised. So, in a way, for Islam to exist at all, it requires a worldly enemy.
Reading the Koran myself I can easily see it's message of peace and the "good" life one should lead. However, Islam cannot make peace with the world around them, for God hath decreed it so. And since it's already been written....That's just the way it is.

Islamic countries don't even have a great track record of peace amongst themselves. Corruption runs rampant among the godliest of peoples. They for all intensive purposes provide most of the only true commodity left to the rest of the world....which of course translates to money, and riches. Yet a country roughly the size of texas can produce 10% of the worlds oil and reep the financial rewards (represented in dollar figures most of us can't even comprehend) and still it's citizens live in third world squalor.

Mind you, I'm not sticking up for the bible thumpers either but, BY GOD, Islam doesn't seem to work very well at all. And so far at least the bible folks have yet to start strapping bombs to themsleves.

In summary, I believe no Gods on imaginary men with imaginary agendas have any place in the politics or the running of a world where we expect to further humanity.
I believe Islam is currently the most dangerous religion trying to run the world today. I believe it is a danger to civilization as a whole.

I actually like your OP... It asks some honest questions... I think you’re on the right track, if one ignores the parts that stem from ignorance... keep digging deeper and maybe you will get to know why things are the way they are...

 

[Blackdog22]

I think the difference between us and some Islam extremists is that our extremists don't kill people for working on Sunday. Islam extremists are common enough to have a major impact on the people of Islam. The war in Islam hasn't continued based on normal, peaceful people sitting around with love in their hearts. To say that there are a whole lot of extremists in Islam is wrong. The percentage may only be 1-4% off estimates, but that is a huge number. It only took 1 guy to start the holocaust and fear can be very persuasive.

Honestly, I am just going to back out of this conversation. I would need to bring far more facts to the table. I also need to provide facts on the amount of christian extremists in our country that kill people over petty things (Like working on sunday). I think my opinion to this topic was voiced because of the 7 out of 10 Muslims I have encountered that consider killing someone who has accepted Islam and then backed out to be a kind favor. I have just had a bad experience and am voicing my opinion based on that.

 

[Wombat]

I decree in the name of my own made up god and by his power that no one shall die on this message board.

Likewise I promice and decree not to support the gangsters in your neighbourhood or send troops to back and protect them just because I want your resourses ;-)

(Looks like we have a pact/agreement...Whooho! ;-)

Average Joe american is a muslim hater.......tis a problem......most of us think we have good reason.
Why shouldn't we?.

I think your right about the "average Joe American"...the same can be said of the average Joe Australian, English etc....

"most of us think we have good reason"?...ok, let's talk about those good reasons and see if they stand up at the end.

"Why shouldn't we?"...Maybe because there are even better reasons not to "hate" them (or anyone).....?

My first suggestion would be to have a look at those groups the Government/Media wanted the average Joe to hate going back from recent times-
Axis of Evil countries-Iran, Iraq and North Korea.
All Communists and communist countries.The Soviet Union,Cuba, China, Nth Vietnam....and any left leaning pinko sympathysing country in Sth America especialy those whose names end in 'Guay'....then there was Syria, Libia...and the Japanese and the Germans and at home there was allways the Negro.

There is >ALWAYS< some group/nation they want you to "hate" Joe. Because that "hate" keeps the cogs and wheels on the Military Indistrial Complex spinning and gives unemployed Joe jnr something to do- shoot and be shot at.

It aint rocket science Joe....somebody is always making a Buck out of your "hate".

The only trick...the only game in town...is working out if the other guy is a real threat/legitimate enemy and (if so) how did he get that way?

Hey Joe.......Found the Wepons of Mass Destruction yet?............;-)

I started this post immediately after finishing the koran.... Perhaps a veil has been put over my eyes by God himself and I never had a chance anyway, but, I have the right to relate what it revealed to me in as harsh a words as I want..

Sure you have that "right"....But so far you haven't said much of anything about what you found in the Koran that you didn't like.

and I still stand by most of my original ignorant american statements....cus uh, most of us jes be stupid ignit ol mericanos over here..

Ahhhhhh...stop boasting Joe....We can out stupid you guys any day!
Here's the proof- REAL RELIGION- FOOTBALL WITHOUT GIRLY ARMOR/HELMETS-

[youtube]TlkSHIJkilc[/youtube]
YouTube - AFL Big Hits and the Best Bits (Real Football)



Yea!.....We got >stupid< covered Joe! ;-)

can't change squat if you don't deal with the issues and ask the hard questions..

Dam Straight Joe.....so when do we get beyond the "hate" and down to the "hard questions"?

Why do some Muslims hate the West? Is it "Because of our freedoms"? GWB.
Is it because of the Koran/religion?
Or is there a history of provocation and opression that we arn't even taught or told about?
(Remember Pearl Harbor?.....What got the Japanese so rilled up to try that one on?
Ever heard of 'Gunboat Diplomacy'?
Black Ships - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Gunboat diplomacy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
or the 'Oil Embargo' against Japan?
Pearl Harbor History: Why Did Japan Attack? Eyewitness Accounts, Casualty List, Background)

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
George Santayana

It is an issue worth getting to the bottom of(just because that prolly never happen, does not mean we shouldn't try)...

Yup....and I'm up for the "trying".....how about you Joe?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Christ God, means jesus....jesus....that's not obvious?

Yea, a theological debate..or one of many are ongoing on this subject here at RF.

I've read revalations, many times in fact.....it's not quite the same though. I'm not saying it's totally different either....but I don't think the fullness of hell is quite so important in christianity.

Well what are we outsiders to think when we open their bible and see that chapter at the end? We can only conclude it is there for a purpose and not and entertaining good read. "Hell" is definitely an important concept to Christians.

The books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, James 2nd Peter and Revelation talk about hell or (hell fire).

And for the record I think the revelation is a crazy mans rant.....and not the word of god. it's mostly a good read though.....entertaining.

I agree but it is in their book (bible) so it must serve a purpose other than entertainment.

AH HA!..... ya got me with the abortion clinic bombers.... damn. Christianity sucks too....

I hear ya. It wasn't one to one up you but just to show there are fundamentalist everywhere and in every religion around the would.

 

[Jeremiah]

why can you? I'm not....I'm stating opinions and forcing issues that need tackling....ON THE INTERNET(ooooooh).....I don't care if you hate me....your prejudice....I'm concerned.

Have I succomb to an opinion....yeah, prove me wrong.....

once again:
Idiot preacher in Fla. threatens to burn some books and half way round the world a mob starts burning and killing.....sounds like the work of primitave mislead religious zealots to me.
And where again is the moderate muslim outcry?

"why can you?"

Well, because I am physically able to and nobody stopping me. I was just curious why you said I can't. It was an odd thing to say.

"..I don't care if you hate me"

I don't hate you. Heck, I don't even care enough about you to hate you.

"Have I succomb to an opinion..."

And apparently a public education. Don't worry it is an affliction I suffer from as well; you can recover. Take two books and call me in the morning.

yeah, prove me wrong....."


I am not really too concerned with what is happening on the other side of the planet. What really concerns me, is that Americans keep giving my tax money and my rights away to a bloated government. In their paranoia of the radical Islam bogeyman, the sheep of this country are throwing gobs of money away and crapping all over what America stands for. Islam-phobia in America has created a ready supply of American's young and finest, just ripe for the picking by out-of-control, warmongering officials. It gives cover and support for power-hungry, zealous politicians, as they strip more of American's rights and freedoms away.

You my not get this, but this is my America too, and I like to see my lady dance with the grace I know she can. It is a matter of pride, we are Americans, that is suppose to mean something. And I hope that the Muslims reading these broads don't get the wrong impression of America. Because America truly is a great place to live, the great melting pot of the west. I, myself, welcome Muslims and I want them to bring their religion, I want them to enhance our culture with their culture.

Luckily for me, though, I'll get my way, became this a free nation, where people's religious rights are protected by law. The one thing our government does an OK job on. I mean it could be better, but all and all they do a fairly good job.

"And where again is the moderate muslim outcry?"

O, I am sure it exist, but it is much better for ratings if the news only broadcast the minority that are rioting.

 

[142857]

I'm a little behind for skipping a day but I'm going to respond to a few of the stated issues and perspective I've noticed reading through most of this thread again.

I'm not going to go try to gather all the quotes that relate, if you been following you'll prob get it.
#35 is an excelent post....thank you.

Couple things expressed along and throughout here that I think are fairly irrelevant. Mostly, the confusion of WHEN and WHERE we are talking about, try HEAR and NOW. I personally have alot of issues with what christians have done in history....But WE(none of us) can do anything about the crusades or any thing else in history
"Our current day and age" that myself and others have tried to imply is not from WWII till now. It's NOW.......what can you do about injustices of the past? what can I do? I'm talking about problems now, the ongoings of today, this year, this month, now and more importantly...tomorrow.

In example: I think it sucks what white english peoples did to blacks in this country....and what white americans did to them for a long time after that. However, as a white american today, I don't personally owe the black man in america anything for this transgression....I wasn't part of it, he wasn't part of it either. As a whole we prob shouldn't forget about it, but we should kinda move on into the now.

And you can call me crazy if you like, but, ummm, the KKK is a joke, the Klan has been a joke for friggin years and for years and years before it was predominatly scare tactics....yes, they linched some negros back in the day, but once the consequences became to great they resorted beatings, then harsh words and scare tactics....burning crosses, while terroristic in nature still doesn't do anything, short of maybe screwing up your lawn and causing some commotion. Is it right? no. Is it stupid? yes......still not a suicide bomber kind of mentality though. In fact, I think you'd be pretty hard pressed to find an american today who has ever even seen a klansman, harder pressed yet to find one who thinks what's left of the KKK has the least bit to do with religion. Jerry Springer had enough KKK on afternoon TV 20 years ago to let normal americans see what kind of inbread white trash rednecks they were, and here the ludicris diarreah they were spouting...No right thinking white american want's any of these idiots speaking for us.

BUT...Besides all that....and more importantly. What's left of the KKK today doesn't and can't opperate in an overly overt terrorist manner because....WE(the, the slightly more cival majority) have imposed, and enforce great penalties for such actions.
I think as a whole, through dilligence ourselves, the KKK has been all but delt with. It's true home now is in our prisons. What's left of it outside the jails has essentially no power of any kind any more at all......When was the most recent video of klansmen hanging a black man? When was the most recent vid of muslims beheading infidels? So IMHO, screw the KKK. It's a non arguement. I'm more worried about what's happening right now.

Where are the christian malitias? They must be held up with their wives and guns in the hills of Utah....I haven't heard of any, even possibly militant christian group of any kind since like Wayco. I think we umm sort of excessively erracicated that too.

There are no "holy men" in america teaching kids to wear suicide belts....i'm sorry...
Heh, holy men in america just want dollars.

for #27....yes indeed I have no argument...america is no angel, got plenty of problems with america. However America kills and takes, for power and greed...these are at least human things we can understand, real things. I started this about imaginary things, religion, not polotics.
I figure there should be another thread just like this, dealing with political shackles....and believe me, I will be on board....I think we need to stop the street people from blowing themselves and others up in the name of god, pretty quick like too, otherwise we may never make it to the political issues. Like I said before, an unproveable entity should have no say in politics. I certianly think anyone who uses their God as a reason or excuse for violence certianly has the wrong God. The wrong message to his fellow man. The wrong approach to everything life is.
I believe that any God who would incite war amongst us(like we couldn't do that ourselves) is not worthy of worship. I think men who use God for this purpose and who mislead others in this way and hide behind God while they blow people up are criminals unto humanity as a whole.

As far as me inciting prejudice. Probably..not so much as flushing it into the open, i think...but probably a little....my point was that God incited all the prejudice mankind would ever need, long before I was a bloodclot.

#44
yes, I can take it...keep dishin brother....it's cool I don't need to backpedal.

I still stick to my original assertion that the "moderate muslim community" is secretely applauding the actions of the extreamist muslim community. That the primary diff in moderate and extream is wether or not you personally are willing to get your hands dirty.

We did and do, need a muslim outcry against all such actions. I think the whole world does....without it they(muslims) all become the enemy.

When I read the Koran, it seems pretty clear cut that us(infidels) are already mislead by god and are already doomed to fall and be destroyed by god, save those who turn. So why would a muslim think anything other than "it serves them right"

There is no outcry because in that mindset, it's our just deserts.....I think they don't want peace, they don't want to live together and they are just want for the rest of us to die or for the latter day to arrive.
Just because a moderate doesn't want to partake the slaughtering himself, he still wants to see it come to pass. It would only mean he was closer to his promised reward.

I suppose I read it wrong cus of that pesky veil over my eyes.

Wombat...I was posting ^^^ all that before I read your post...I got no time today but when I get back to the comp I'll gladly address most of that too, peace. Jerrimiah, your last post as well....

...see you guys, have a nice day

 

[142857]

I think it's awesome that nobody want's to talk about this stuff...

More evidence that the moderate muslim doesn't actually exist.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

How about we not burn any books. I'm an Atheist and don't care for any religions book as a governing factor for my life but when it's cold outside I'm not reaching for my bible or my quran to be used as kindling. I happen to like those books of fairy-tales.....!!!

 

[142857]

this isn't about burning books....it's about killing people for threatening to burn books.

 

[waitasec]

"Reading the Koran myself I can easily see it's message of peace and the "good" life one should lead. However, Islam cannot make peace with the world around them, for God hath decreed it so. And since it's already been written....That's just the way it is."


can you provide where this is stated on the quran?

 

[142857]

It's full of it.....As I said, the koran is very redundant.

The ovious message is that God created men(and genies) to worship him....the most of them will not believe. The fires of hell will be full of these souls on that day which cannot be avoided. Ressurection Day.

For the latter day to occour the way it is described over and over throughout the koran ..... Most men must burn in hell.

I suggest that the Infidel is just as important to fulfilling the last day as the believer is.

In fact, if all the world was muslim and all the world believed, the "truth" of the koran would crumble.

From sura III:
27:Let not believers take infidels for their friends rather than believers.

65: And believe in those only who follow your religion.

114:O ye who have believed! Form not intamacies among others than yourselves. They will not fail to corrupt you.

not positive I got all my verse #'s correct but they are close...all this is in sura III "the family of imran.

 

[IslamDude]

It's full of it.....As I said, the koran is very redundant.

The ovious message is that God created men(and genies) to worship him....the most of them will not believe. The fires of hell will be full of these souls on that day which cannot be avoided. Ressurection Day.

For the latter day to occour the way it is described over and over throughout the koran ..... Most men must burn in hell.

I suggest that the Infidel is just as important to fulfilling the last day as the believer is.

In fact, if all the world was muslim and all the world believed, the "truth" of the koran would crumble.

From sura III:
27:Let not believers take infidels for their friends rather than believers.

65: And believe in those only who follow your religion.

114:O ye who have believed! Form not intamacies among others than yourselves. They will not fail to corrupt you.

not positive I got all my verse #'s correct but they are close...all this is in sura III "the family of imran.

The Quran is a Book full of chapters and in each chapter there are few or many verses. Quoting a verse on its own doesn't detail the message of the whole chapter, nor the whole Quran.

Each verse you mentioned addresses a specific time and circumstance.

Heed this verse: "Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight/kill you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just." Surah 60:8

Basically, there was a lot of wars and oppression back then. God makes it clear here that you are to deal kindly and just with those not waring with you, killing you or driving you out if your homes.

And you know... if something ****** people off so bad that they start killing people? Why the hell would you do it?

There's places in Jamaica you can get killed simply for wearing certain colours. And you just don't challenge that kinda crap. Now I don't blame Christianity or Rastafarianism for that.

 

[142857]

There's places in Jamaica you can get killed simply for wearing certain colours. And you just don't challenge that kinda crap.

Yeah, I think you do challenge exactly that kinda crap.

 

[IslamDude]

Yeah, I think you do challenge exactly that kinda crap.

If you do, then enjoy your life while it lasts ^^