Buddha favors religion and shuns having no-religion

[LuisDantas]

And yet you still waste your time with such foolish people with no Connection to the Truth such as me, Psychoslice?

I would be flattered if I had not just learned that it is so disrespectful to you.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Nevertheless Buddha believed in the Creator God; and the source of his knowledge was enlightenment/revelation from the Creator God. Buddha's example has a strong similarity in Jesus. Jesus believed in ONE- the Creator God being himself a Jew, yet the Christians brought out Trinity, negating the express teachings of Jesus.

Buddha only denied strongly the wrong deities of the mislead contemporary Hinduism and intended to reform it; yet some 500 years after Buddha, the Buddhists started believing that Buddha did not believe in the Creator God.

Can you quote from Buddhist scripture to this effect? The Buddha taught that even gods are caught in the cycle of samsara (suffering) as much as we are; just on a higher plane of existence. You should research what the 'Wheel of Becoming' is in Buddhism.

 

[crossfire]

Buddha says: “The gift of religion exceeds all gifts; the sweetness of religion exceeds all sweetness; the delight in religion exceeds all delights; the extinction of thirst overcomes all pain.” Verse- 49: Chapter – 48: THE DHAMMAPADA.

Gospel of Buddha

http://reluctant-messenger.com/gospel_buddha/

Paarsurrey comments: Atheism/Agnosticism/Skepticism do not subscribe to any religion; they rather abhor religion. Hence, they don’t belong to Buddha and Buddha does not belong to them.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Dhammapada verse 354 from section XXIV Craving

Pali:

Sabbadānaṃ dhammadānaṃ jināti
Sabbaṃ rasaṃ dhammaraso jināti
Sabbaṃ ratiṃ dhammaratī jināti
Taṇhakkhayo sabbadukkhaṃ jināti.​

English

A gift of Dhamma conquers all gifts;
the taste of Dhamma conquers all tastes;
a delight in Dhamma conquers all delights;
the ending of craving conquers all suffering & stress.
​

Here, "The ending of craving conquers all suffering and stress" is sanantana dhamma (a law eternal,) much is the same manner that Dhammapada verse 5 is sanantana dhamma:

"Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal."
Na hi verena verāni sammantīdha kudācanaṃ
Averena ca sammanti esa dhammo sanantano.

​

 

[Kartari]

Hi paarsurrey,

Buddha says: “The gift of religion exceeds all gifts; the sweetness of religion exceeds all sweetness; the delight in religion exceeds all delights; the extinction of thirst overcomes all pain.” Verse- 49: Chapter – 48: THE DHAMMAPADA.

Gospel of Buddha

http://reluctant-messenger.com/gospel_buddha/

Paarsurrey comments: Atheism/Agnosticism/Skepticism do not subscribe to any religion; they rather abhor religion. Hence, they don’t belong to Buddha and Buddha does not belong to them.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

First of all, has anyone mentioned yet that there are only 26 chapters in the Dhammapada? Yet you quote from the 48th chapter... ?!?

Second, I am unaware of the Buddha ever referencing "religion." Probably a mistranslation of the Pali term dhamma (or dharma in Sanskrit), which in Buddhism refers to the Buddha's teachings rather than religion more broadly.

Third, atheism, agnosticism, and skepticism do not inherently "abhor" religion. Individuals of these views may vary in their like or dislike of various religions, religious concepts, and/or religion in general.

Fourth, the Buddha was non-theistic concerning deities. Meaning, the subject of their existence or non-existence was a moot point to him. His teachings revolved around dukkha ("dissatisfaction," "suffering") and its cessation: metaphysical speculations were actually something he explicitly stated were a dangerous distraction from the path of the cessation of dukkha.

 

[crossfire]

Hi paarsurrey,



First of all, has anyone mentioned yet that there are only 26 chapters in the Dhammapada? Yet you quote from the 48th chapter... ?!?
<...>

He was quoting from the 48th chapter of the book The Gospel of Buddha, written in 1894 by Paul Carus.

 

[Kartari]

Hi paarsurrey,

One may like to put it like thus:

Buddha was a man.

He did receive enlightenment/revelation from the Creator God.

Therefore Buddha's teachings were truthful and not authored by Buddha.

Religion is ,therefore, not man-made but made by the Creator God.

Please take it like this.

But you could differ with me out of your own free will; no compulsion.

Yet Buddha was not an Atheist/Agnostic/Skeptic/Humanist (whatever denomination of them). His character was of a believer in G-d.
Regards

Where did you get this idea from? This is incorrect. The Buddha taught nothing whatsoever about a Creator God. Nor did he ever claim he was enlightened by such a thing. Rather, he explicitly taught that enlightenment was something one must attain for oneself, and that nobody could enlighten anyone else. Not even a deity.

Sure, you can find passing references to Hindu deities in early scriptures. But deities are entirely irrelevant to Buddhist practice and the attainment of enlightenment.

It sounds to me like you are simply choosing to apply Christian beliefs about Jesus to the Buddha.

 

[Kartari]

Hi crossfire,

He was quoting from the 48th chapter of the book The Gospel of Buddha, written in 1894 by Paul Carus.

Thanks! That makes a lot more sense now. I know nothing of Carus, but if he asserted such things as paarsurrey has posted, it's probably not very off base to suggest that Carus was probably a Christian who decided to impose Christian beliefs about Jesus onto the Buddha.

 

[crossfire]

Hi crossfire,



Thanks! That makes a lot more sense now. I know nothing of Carus, but if he asserted such things as paarsurrey has posted, it's probably not very off base to suggest that Carus was probably a Christian who decided to impose Christian beliefs about Jesus onto the Buddha.

Actually, this quote of the last lines from Carus's book Nietzsche and Other Exponents of Individualism describes his stance, which seems to correspond to Maat of the Ancient Egyptians:

What we need first is the standard of the higher man; and on this account we must purify our notions of the norm of truth and righteousness,—of God. Let us find first the over-God, and the overman will develop naturally. The belief in an individual God-being is giving way to the recognition of a superpersonal God, the norm of scientific truth, the standard of right and wrong, the standard of worth by which we measure the value of our own being; and the kingdom of the genuine overman will be established by the spread of the scientific comprehension of the world, in matters physical, social, intellectual, moral, and religious.​

 

[buddhist]

Dhp 354: "Sabbadānaṃ dhammadānaṃ jināti, Sabbarasaṃ dhammaraso jināti; Sabbaratiṃ dhammarati jināti ..."

The gift of the teachings found in Reality surpasses all gifts, the taste of the teachings found in Reality surpasses all tastes, the delight in the teachings found in Reality surpasses all delights ...

 

[paarsurrey]

@ friend Kartari
Reference Post #186
Buddha was not with the Agnostics; he spoke against Skepticism:
Courtesy our friend Tathagata (#79)
“The Buddha was NOT an Agnostic. It is scripturally false to say he was an Agnostic. He was in fact vehemently opposed to Agnosticism and he called them “evasive eel-wrigglers.” See the Brahmajala Sutta and the Samannaphala Sutta.

Ambiguous Evasion [edit]
The concept of ambiguous evasion or eel-wriggling (Pali: Amaravikkhepa) is introduced in the Brahmajala sutta. When hearing Buddhist teachings, the Buddha claims that people would react with four forms of ambiguous evasion:
1. Evasion out of fear or hatred of making false claims.
2. Evasion out of fear or hatred of attachment.
3. Evasion out of fear or hatred of debate.
4. Evasion out of fear or hatred of admitting ignorance.

In other words, when a person would hear the dharma, they would respond, "I don't know. Maybe it is true. Maybe it is not true. I can't say it's true because I don't know and I can't deny it's true because I don't know."
The idea is that the person isn't considering the arguments presented (see Kalama Sutta), but stubbornly adhering to irrational agnosticism out of feelings of fear or hatred.

Brahmajala Sutta (Theravada) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Regards

 

[LuisDantas]

@paarsurrey : I am sorry, but you are misunderstanding the Dhamma to a serious degree.

This last post of yours... it is just wrong, entirely wrong.

Also, I can't find this post #79 you mention. I looked for it here, without success.

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/is-islam-a-universal-religion.147598/page-4

 

[paarsurrey]

@paarsurrey : I am sorry, but you are misunderstanding the Dhamma to a serious degree.
This last post of yours... it is just wrong, entirely wrong.
Also, I can't find this post #79 you mention. I looked for it here, without success.
http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/is-islam-a-universal-religion.147598/page-4

Sorry and with most respect, I speak about Buddha, not about Buddhism or the Buddhists, they got changed under the debris of time as did the Christians from what Jesus said and did. Please
Regards

 

[LuisDantas]

With all due respect, @paarsurrey , you have only reinforced my previous impression.

The Buddha specifically warned against such a mistake, you know.