Brahman and Monotheism

[Aupmanyav]

So if Brahman has absolutely no emotions how as a human can I relate to him? Is that a possibility?

There is no need to relate to Brahman since you are always related. Brahman is what constitutes you and Brahman is what constitutes me. You are none other than 'it', and I am none other than 'it'. There is nothing in the universe which is not 'it'. There is never a separation.

Our books have said that very clearly and repeatedly - 'Ayamatma Brahma' (This self is Brahman), 'Tat twam asi' (That is what you are), 'Ekameda adviteeyam' (Verily, One, without a second). There are many more sayings like that.

 

[Jedster]

@Aupmanyav Is this poem about Brahman?

Oh Companion That Abode Is Unmatched,
Where My Complete Beloved Is.

In that Place There Is No Happiness or Unhappiness,
No Truth or Untruth
Neither Sin Nor Virtue.
There Is No Day or Night, No Moon or Sun,
There Is Radiance Without Light.

There Is No Knowledge or Meditation
No Repetition of Mantra or Austerities,
Neither Speech Coming From Vedas or Books.
Doing, Not-Doing, Holding, Leaving
All These Are All Lost Too In This Place.

No Home, No Homeless, Neither Outside or Inside,
Micro and Macrocosm Are Non-Existent.
Five Elemental Constituents and the Trinity Are Both Not There
Witnessing Un-struck Shabad Sound is Also Not There.

No Root or Flower, Neither Branch or Seed,
Without a Tree Fruits are Adorning,
Primordial Om Sound, Breath-Synchronized Soham,
This and That - All Are Absent, The Breath Too Unknown

Where the Beloved Is There is Utterly Nothing
Says Kabir I Have Come To Realize.
Whoever Sees My Indicative Sign
Will Accomplish the Goal of Liberation.
~KABIR

 

[ManSinha]

As someone who is trying to learn more about Hinduism, what is or does Hinduism believe in sin or penalty for trespasses against God or a deity?

I personally have found countless pearls of wisdom in the Gita - start with reading a little each day - there is a good chance your questions will be answered

For example:

Says the lord: Gita 4:14

na māṁ karmāṇi limpanti na me karma-phale spṛihā
iti māṁ yo ’bhijānāti karmabhir na sa badhyate

Activities do not taint me, nor do I desire the fruits of action. One who knows me in this way is never bound by the karmic reactions of work.

Gita 4:24

brahmārpaṇaṁ brahma havir brahmāgnau brahmaṇā hutam
brahmaiva tena gantavyaṁ brahma-karma-samādhinā

For those who are completely absorbed in God-consciousness, the oblation is Brahman, the ladle with which it is offered is Brahman, the act of offering is Brahman, and the sacrificial fire is also Brahman. Such persons, who view everything as God, easily attain him.

And towards the finis - a distinct departure from the Abrahamic texts as I know of them

Gita 18:63

iti te jñānam ākhyātaṁ guhyād guhyataraṁ mayā
vimṛiśhyaitad aśheṣheṇa yathechchhasi tathā kuru

Thus, I have explained to you this knowledge that is more secret than all secrets. Ponder over it deeply, and then do as you wish.

(emphasis mine)

 

[ManSinha]

@Aupmanyav Is this poem about Brahman?

Oh Companion That Abode Is Unmatched,
Where My Complete Beloved Is.

In that Place There Is No Happiness or Unhappiness,
No Truth or Untruth
Neither Sin Nor Virtue.
There Is No Day or Night, No Moon or Sun,
There Is Radiance Without Light.

There Is No Knowledge or Meditation
No Repetition of Mantra or Austerities,
Neither Speech Coming From Vedas or Books.
Doing, Not-Doing, Holding, Leaving
All These Are All Lost Too In This Place.

No Home, No Homeless, Neither Outside or Inside,
Micro and Macrocosm Are Non-Existent.
Five Elemental Constituents and the Trinity Are Both Not There
Witnessing Un-struck Shabad Sound is Also Not There.

No Root or Flower, Neither Branch or Seed,
Without a Tree Fruits are Adorning,
Primordial Om Sound, Breath-Synchronized Soham,
This and That - All Are Absent, The Breath Too Unknown

Where the Beloved Is There is Utterly Nothing
Says Kabir I Have Come To Realize.
Whoever Sees My Indicative Sign
Will Accomplish the Goal of Liberation.
~KABIR

Kabir - IMHO was a strong advaitist - and as such a number of his compositions center around "Lord in everyone and everyone in the lord" theme which IMHO = Brahman

I have verses in my own scripture that I can supply to back up that line of thinking - from Kabir that is - a lot of his compositions are a part of SGGS

 

[Jedster]

Kabir - IMHO was a strong advaitist - and as such a number of his compositions center around "Lord in everyone and everyone in the lord" theme which IMHO = Brahman

I have verses in my own scripture that I can supply to back up that line of thinking - from Kabir that is - a lot of his compositions are a part of SGGS

Yes, I have read much of the SGGS.

 

[Kevin Fitzgerald]

Thank you so much for the thoughtful and helpful answers. I am learning a lot. I am not looking for a new belief I have to be honest with you but I am trying to understand others and their beliefs. I think it is very arrogant to stick your nose down and not try to understand others views.
I have many more questions but I wanted to ask you about your statement about 'dharma and eternal punishment. Is there ever any possibility of perfectly fulfilling your duty to others? Has anyone ever fulfilled 'dharma perfectly so he did not need any punishment?

 

[Kevin Fitzgerald]

Thank you so much for the thoughtful and helpful answers. I am learning a lot. I am not looking for a new belief I have to be honest with you but I am trying to understand others and their beliefs. I think it is very arrogant to stick your nose down and not try to understand others views.
I have many more questions but I wanted to ask you about your statement about 'dharma and eternal punishment. Is there ever any possibility of perfectly fulfilling your duty to others? Has anyone ever fulfilled 'dharma perfectly so he did not need any punishment?

 

[Kevin Fitzgerald]

Thank you so much for the thoughtful and helpful answers. I am learning a lot. I am not looking for a new belief I have to be honest with you but I am trying to understand others and their beliefs. I think it is very arrogant to stick your nose down and not try to understand others views.
I have many more questions but I wanted to ask you about your statement about 'dharma and eternal punishment. Is there ever any possibility of perfectly fulfilling your duty to others? Has anyone ever fulfilled 'dharma perfectly so he did not need any punishment?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Sant Kabir and Sri Guru Nanak Saheb ji are beacons in Hinduism, and true advaitists.

 

[Kevin Fitzgerald]

Thank you so much for your helpful answers! I am learning a lot. I am a Christian but I am trying to learn and understand others beliefs.
I have a few more questions. Has anybody ever done 'dharma to perfection so that they avoid the punishment?
Thanks again for your great help!

 

[Kevin Fitzgerald]

Sorry for the repeat question. My Wifi was buffering.

 

[Kevin Fitzgerald]

So those advaitists did their duty perfectly their entire life from childhood to their death?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Is there ever any possibility of perfectly fulfilling your duty to others? Has anyone ever fulfilled 'dharma' perfectly so he did not need any punishment?

No problem about questions. Yes. I believe millions of people have fulfilled their duty to others perfectly. Some are known, many others remain unknown. Kabir, Nanak, Eknath, Jnaneshwar, Namadev, Mira, Tulasidas from North and West India. There are many more from East and South India. Even your next-door neighbor may be fulfilling all that may be his 'dharma' (duties), no one will ever know. One does not even need to be a Hindu to qualify.

So those advaitists did their duty perfectly their entire life from childhood to their death?

Not just atheist advaitists, but theists as well. Minor mistakes, amply compensated in later life. For example, Tulsidas was a sex-centered young man. His wife told him that if he had same devotion to God, he would have attained nirvana. Tulsidas from then on turned to God.

 

[shunyadragon]

Religion, like physics, is what it is. It reflects reality, ie: objective truth. If something 's complex it needs to be portrayed as such.

Oh no! the last thing that reflects the reality of our world is the diverse conflicting beliefs of the religions over the millennia that each claim they have the 'objective truth.' Fortunately science does not make this claim and it is more consistent, comprehensible than the conflicting claims, and is a changing evolving knowledge of reality. .

Unless you can consider the religions and belief systems of the world an evolving spiritual knowledge of the world.

 

[ManSinha]

I have many more questions but I wanted to ask you about your statement about 'dharma and eternal punishment. Is there ever any possibility of perfectly fulfilling your duty to others? Has anyone ever fulfilled 'dharma perfectly so he did not need any punishment?

Ask away and we can attempt an answer - for starters - there is no concept of eternal punishment in the dharmic faiths

Put it simply - the way I understand it - there are two states -

One is the Maya - or the illusion - that we exist in -
The other is merged with the Ultimate Divine and no different than a drop of water from the other drops in a hurtling body of water

The Maya is the closest thing to gehana or hell - you keep getting do-overs till you get it right

Once you get it right - you merge with the divine and that is the ultimate reward.

No lake of fire or torture by the minions of Lucifer - to me they are just fanciful stories - which do not stand up to reason

Back to the Gita - 2:47

karmaṇy-evādhikāras te mā phaleṣhu kadāchana
mā karma-phala-hetur bhūr mā te saṅgo ’stvakarmaṇi

You have a right to perform your prescribed duties, but you are not entitled to the fruits of your actions. Never consider yourself to be the cause of the results of your activities, nor be attached to inaction.

2:72

eṣhā brāhmī sthitiḥ pārtha naināṁ prāpya vimuhyati
sthitvāsyām anta-kāle ’pi brahma-nirvāṇam ṛichchhati

O Parth, such is the state of an enlightened soul that having attained it, one is never again deluded. Being established in this consciousness even at the hour of death, one is liberated from the cycle of life and death and reaches the Supreme Abode of God.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Unless you can consider the religions and belief systems of the world an evolving spiritual knowledge of the world.

All the knowledge is already known for millenniums. There is nothing new that can crop up except frauds.

Where the Beloved Is There is Utterly Nothing, Says Kabir I Have Come To Realize.
Whoever Sees My Indicative Sign, Will Accomplish the Goal of Liberation. ~KABIR

Yes, Jed. Kabir is an eye-opener. One can't be the same after reading Kabir, especially in his own language. We are fortunate to understand that.

 

[shunyadragon]

All the knowledge is already known for millenniums. There is nothing new that can crop up except frauds.
Yes, Jed. Kabir is an eye-opener. One can't be the same after reading Kabir, especially in his own language. We are fortunate to understand that.

I consider this view rather egocentric and arrogant. Nothing is known to you propose now or over the millennia in the past. There to many diverse and conflicting claims from the fallible human perspective to make such claims.

Unless you can present objective verifiable evidence to support your claims there is no basis for your claims. Only those who believe as you do 'are fortunate to understand that.'

 

[SalixIncendium]

I realize that Hinduism has many different sects. Some would say that its actually more than one religion. So I'm not trying to oversimplify Hinduism and make it seem like all Hindus are into what I'm talking about. I know that many are polytheistic. I know that many are henatheistic. Some emphasize the three gods of Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva. Others have only the god of their family.

I would like to talk about the form of Hinduism that believes that Brahman is the source underlying the universe, and that all the other gods are but his masks, so to speak. (I realize this can get pretty complicated, but I don't want to write a book). To me this looks extremely close to monotheism, and in fact could very well be said to be a form of monotheism, if not a proto-monotheism.

I'd like to hear the thoughts about this from Hindus who are into this form.

Thanks.

Apologies for being late to the party. I've attempted to reply to this a few times, but words failed me, and in truth, still are. But anyway, here goes...

Sounds to me like the form of Hinduism you want to talk about relates to Nirguna Brahman or Para Brahaman, Brahman without qualities. I really don't consider this form of Hinduism a form of theism at all, let alone monotheism, and I really don't consider myself a theist. Here's why...

I really can't describe Nirguna Brahman with words. The best way I know of describing Brahman is moving backward from what is experienced in relative reality. From my understanding, what one experiences in perceived reality is an illusory appearance of Brahman, not entirely dissimilar from how an experience of a dream is an illusory appearance of the dreamer. When one awakens, there is no dream or characters in the dream...only the dreamer in this relative reality.

Therefore, as I see it, there is only Brahman...Absolute reality, and all that is experienced is an appearance of that Absolute through the veil of maya, which I see as time/space/causation. When awakening from relative reality, there is only Brahman...Absolute reality. Reality without time/space/causation...Pure Consciousness.

Nirguna Brahman is no deity, and I, therefore, don't consider Brahman a god, no more than I am a god of my dreams, light is the god of a visible object, or the ocean is a god of a wave. Therefore, there is no theism, let alone monotheism.

 

[SalixIncendium]

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[Kevin Fitzgerald]

I consider this view rather egocentric and arrogant. Nothing is known to you propose now or over the millennia in the past. There to many diverse and conflicting claims from the fallible human perspective to make such claims.

Unless you can present objective verifiable evidence to support your claims there is no basis for your claims. Only those who believe as you do 'are fortunate to understand that.'

What do you believe about the origin of the earth? As a Christian I believe by faith the creation account since I was not their. I think you can make some argument about different things but ultimately as you said I do not have enough verifiable evidence because I was not an eyewitness. How do you reconcile this concept of seeing firsthand with your belief of origins.