Brahman and God

[shivsomashekhar]

Kindly read my previous post. What was not known at one time, becomes (or may become) known after we get new information. That it will never be known is a prejudice, prediction, future may negate it.

And I am saying, whatever that is unknown today and may become known in future will never be the nirguna brahman.

At best, it will only be a variant of Saguna Brahman.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Kindly read my previous post. What was not known at one time, becomes (or may become) known after we get new information. That it will never be known is a prejudice, prediction, future may negate it.

And I am saying, whatever that is unknown today and may become known in future will never be the nirguna brahman. At best, it will only be a variant of Saguna Brahman.

Is there a Brahman? Are existence and non-existence two separate things? Is Brahman really nirguna? I do not know in detail. How can I say something today that is to be known only in future? Guesses are OK, your guess as good as mine. Perhaps existence passes into non-existence and back to existence without a tremor.

 

[Stormcry]

The following is an important verse from Brihadaraynaka upanishad.

"This (self) was indeed Brahman in the beginning; It knew only Itself as, "I am Brahman". Therefore It became all; and whoever among the gods knew It also became That; and the same with sages and men…” - (Brihadaranyaka Upanishad I.iv.10).

Veda had to uttter this verse in order to establish the oneness of the creation and the creator on the empirical level, even though it knows that there's no creator or creation in the first place. The purpose of the verse is only to refute the claim of dualistics/Bhedabhedi that the world is real and the soul is different from the Paramatman. The purpose is not to establish the creation process.

 

[atanu]

Veda had to uttter this verse in order to establish the oneness of the creation and the creator on the empirical level, even though it knows that there's no creator or creation in the first place. The purpose of the verse is only to refute the claim of dualistics/Bhedabhedi that the world is real and the soul is different from the Paramatman. The purpose is not to establish the creation process.

Yes. The verse does not suggest a true creation.

 

[Unguru]

I'd think of "God" as a more conditional perception of what lays outside of the veil of general Monotheism (being a transcendent thing in which all life is subject to) both within mystical traditions of Monotheism (Judaism and Islam especially) and within HInduism there is this lifting of the veil of sorts, of the mind being the source or ourselves being finite perception of this universal play. The Brahman + Atman realization is the thing that seems to vary a lot between Dharmic schools but this general notion is not too indifferent to the aforementioned mysticism in other religions, I believe it's a very substantial thing.

But then, the words "God" and "Brahman" respectively, do seem to impose certain limitations philosophically - both, in themselves, being (if properly actualized) forms of realizations about existence as a whole.

 

[Shantanu]

I'd think of "God" as a more conditional perception of what lays outside of the veil of general Monotheism (being a transcendent thing in which all life is subject to) both within mystical traditions of Monotheism (Judaism and Islam especially) and within HInduism there is this lifting of the veil of sorts, of the mind being the source or ourselves being finite perception of this universal play. The Brahman + Atman realization is the thing that seems to vary a lot between Dharmic schools but this general notion is not too indifferent to the aforementioned mysticism in other religions, I believe it's a very substantial thing.

But then, the words "God" and "Brahman" respectively, do seem to impose certain limitations philosophically - both, in themselves, being (if properly actualized) forms of realizations about existence as a whole.

You have come to the right place for this discussion, so welcome to the forum, Unguru. God can create any number of sub-gods as He sees appropriate for mankind to suit different mindsets among human beings, He has been so caring to us. That is how Hinduism is different from other religions. And there is a scientific basis for the creation of these sub-gods and sub-goddesses because Nature is composed of gunas in terms of blends of rajasic, tamasic and sattvic nature intrinsic to matter. This fundamental facet of existence enables us to appreciate diversity in Nature, and we can also see gods in animals like Hanuman, the monkey god. How does that tie in with your beliefs as a dharmic/Judeo-Islamic/Occultist syncretist and definitely not an atheist?

 

[Aupmanyav]

But then, the words "God" and "Brahman" respectively, do seem to impose certain limitations philosophically - both, in themselves, being (if properly actualized) forms of realizations about existence as a whole.

Try to get out of this limitation. Why does anyone want to remain in chains?

 

[ajay0]

The following is an important verse from Brihadaraynaka upanishad.

"This (self) was indeed Brahman in the beginning; It knew only Itself as, "I am Brahman". Therefore It became all; and whoever among the gods knew It also became That; and the same with sages and men…” - (Brihadaranyaka Upanishad I.iv.10).


Can we discuss this?

Prajñānam brahma - Brahman is pure consciousness (Aitareya Upanishad 3.3 of the Rig Veda)


I would say that Brahman as pure consciousness was conscious of itself.


And those who had purified their consciousness of its psychological content of delusion, cravings and aversions,by spiritual exercises or meditation, and overcome the domination of Maya , would have similarly realized themselves to be Brahman or pure consciousness.

 

[Shantanu]

Brahman is not God: I know for certain that the Supreme Being does not wish to be called Brahman. Brahman does consist of consciousness but not Paramatma as God.

 

[Unguru]

Try to get out of this limitation. Why does anyone want to remain in chains?

It's only a limitation to language, which is always going to be an issue whether we're talking philosophy or science. I'm not an Atheist and never will be, if that's what you're hinting.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yoyur choice. My grandson does not want to study but play cricket.

 

[Shantanu]

It's only a limitation to language, which is always going to be an issue whether we're talking philosophy or science. I'm not an Atheist and never will be, if that's what you're hinting.

As long as you have proof of God's existence you should continue to hold on to it and continue to test it at the same time until you have become God yourself.

 

[Vinayaka]

Yoyur choice. My grandson does not want to study but play cricket.

Don't all Indian kids want to just play cricket? I heard that that's the reason many houses don't have windows, cause they just get broken by stray cricket balls, or practice swinging inside. Canadian rural kids were once into ice hockey this way, but if anyone is thinking it's too much, they just need to go to India.

As for study, my youngest daughter who dropped out of regular school, just passed her test and how holds her electrical journeyman ticket.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Don't all Indian kids want to just play cricket? I heard that that's the reason many houses don't have windows, cause they just get broken by stray cricket balls, or practice swinging inside. Canadian rural kids were once into ice hockey this way, but if anyone is thinking it's too much, they just need to go to India.

As for study, my youngest daughter who dropped out of regular school, just passed her test and how holds her electrical journeyman ticket.

That is right. The elder one is an spinner, so he twirls the ball all the time in his hands and throws it against the walls. The younger one wants to play cricket with me in the lobby. About your daughter, I am happy that she has acquired a skill - 'hunar' in Urdu. One must have a 'hunar' to fall back on.

 

[Vinayaka]

That is right. The elder one is an spinner, so he twirls the ball all the time in his hands and throws it against the walls. The younger one wants to play cricket with me in the lobby. About your daughter, I am happy that she has acquired a skill - 'hunar' in Urdu. One must have a 'hunar' to fall back on.

So we rented the room in our basement again ... sight unseen to a young (32) man from Delhi, and it will be his first time out of India. He's going to school here, and I'll pick him up at the airport. His brother (living in the US) convinced me somehow to take a chance. Hopefully he's quite independent, but for the first few days I'll be busy showing him the Canadian ropes. It shall be a learning lesson for me, but moreso for him. Warning: Culture shock ahead!

 

[Aupmanyav]

Let me guess - what is his name?

 

[Vinayaka]

Let me guess - what is his name?

Last name is Nautiyal ... does that mean anything to you?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Generally the people of Uttarkhand are nice. Some information on Nautiyals at History Of Nautiyals. And you are interested in visiting Uttarkhand. Perhaps the gentleman will be able to give some information to you about the place and its people.

 

[Shantanu]

Generally the people of Uttarkhand are nice. Some information on Nautiyals at History Of Nautiyals. And you are interested in visiting Uttarkhand. Perhaps the gentleman will be able to give some information to you about the place and its people.

I am coming to India Aup in a few weeks time, but will be staying in Odisha only.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Odisha elections are going to take place along with the parliamentary elections in April, 2019.