Born of water and of the Spirit?

[Prestor John]

In the Bible, in the book of John 3:3-6,
Jesus and Nicodemus in their Conversation, Jesus speaking to Nicodemus said, "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God"

What does Jesus mean by this ?

This is in reference to Man's need of the covenants made at the time of the baptism of water and of fire.

The baptism of water is one of immersion, representing the death, burial and Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The baptism of fire is done through the laying on of hands for the reception of the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Both are performed by worthy men who hold the Priesthood authority of God.

 

[pearl]

Do you understand, that back at the time of Nicodemus those people then didn't have the new testament to go by.

They had Hebrew Scripture which is what Paul refers to in 1Cor.

"I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea, and all of them were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea."
While the term 'baptized' solely refers to Christian baptism, his reference to water as cleansing, purifying and sanctifying.

 

[BilliardsBall]

In the Bible, in the book of John 3:3-6,
Jesus and Nicodemus in their Conversation, Jesus speaking to Nicodemus said, "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God"

What does Jesus mean by this ?

There is birth, predicated by being in a fluid sack inside your mother. Water from a woman's body is a frequent signal of impending birth.

The second birth, given to anyone who trusts Jesus for Heaven, comes from being filled with and surrounded by God's Spirit.

 

[Faithofchristian]

They had Hebrew Scripture which is what Paul refers to in 1Cor.

"I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea, and all of them were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea."
While the term 'baptized' solely refers to Christian baptism, his reference to water as cleansing, purifying and sanctifying.

Look back at the time of Nicodemus and those people they did not have the new testament book of Hebrews which was written long after the death and Resurrection of Christ Jesus.

Therefore the New Testament book of Hebrews was written after the death and Resurrection of Christ Jesus.
So there's no possible way, the New Testament book of Hebrews could have been back there at the time of Nicodemus.
Since it was written after the death and Resurrection of Christ Jesus.

 

[metis]

Look those are baths, not a place of Baptism. Further more there is no where in the Old Testament Scriptures, that Priest baptized anyone. Not until John the Baptist

Look the archaeologist found many baths in Rome also, that doesn't mean they are a place of baptism, as you want to believe.
Baths are where people would go to bathe themselves, it's wasn't a place to hold baptism's at.

It would be helpful for you if you studied some things dealing with traditional Judaism and Jewish culture.

Here:
Many Christians think that baptism originated with Yeshua’s (Jesus’) cousin Yochanan (John), who is known in the Bible as “John the Baptist.”

But baptism is a Biblical ritual that has been practiced regularly by all of Israel since the days of Moses.

The word baptism comes from the Greek word baptizó, which primarily means a thorough change of condition accomplished through immersion. It is written in Bibles to take the place of the Hebrew word tevilah (to totally immerse).

This ritual immersion in water is carried out in a mikvah, which is a Hebrew word meaning gathering of waters... -- Mikvah (Baptism): The Connection Between Immersion, Conversion and Being Born Again | Messianic Bible

 

[Faithofchristian]

There is birth, predicated by being in a fluid sack inside your mother. Water from a woman's body is a frequent signal of impending birth.

The second birth, given to anyone who trusts Jesus for Heaven, comes from being filled with and surrounded by God's Spirit.

When that sack of water inside your mother, breaks, then your born again thru that water. Into this world of flesh and blood.

Look there's two births, the physical birth and the Spiritual birth.

Our physical birth is our second birth.
Of being born again of flesh and blood.by our mothers.into this world.
When her sack of water breaks, then we are born again thru that water of flesh and blood

This is why Jesus said in John 3:6
That which is born of the flesh is flesh.

Our Spiritual birth, is our second birth of the Spirit of God.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Physical birth is first. Spiritual birth will occur when Jesus returns. NO ONE has been born again or had the spiritual birth because Jesus has not returned.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Physical birth is first. Spiritual birth will occur when Jesus returns. NO ONE has been born again or had the spiritual birth because Jesus has not returned.

Did you know in 1 Peter 1:22-23, tells how to be born again of the Spirit is by the word of God.

Verse 22--"Seeing you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that you love one another with a pure heart fervently"

Notice ( obeying the truth through the Spirit)
This being obeying the truth through the Spirit of God's word.

Verse 23--"Being born again, not of Corruptible seed, but of incorruptible,
by the word of God"

Therefore to obey the truth of God's word, is being born again, by the truth of the word of God.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

That which is born again is incorruptible ( spirit ). You will become spirit when you are resurrected at Christ's return. Until then you are still corruptible ( flesh ).

 

[Faithofchristian]

??? Not understanding what you're saying. Why can we not use the new testament to understand what Jesus was saying here? These are the words of Jesus. This is when he was establishing his teachings. We can use his words to help us understand as well as the apostle's words as well... When Jesus finished his conversation with Nicodemus, he went and baptized. John 3:22 Baptism is what he was referring to considering his statement in Mark 16:16 to be condemned is the same as not entering into the kingdom of God.

Because Nicodemus didn't have the new testament to go by,

So by your trying to add the new testament into the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus will nor work.
All because the new testament wasn't written down at the time of Jesus and Nicodemus having their conversation that's why.

That would be like trying to add today's Technology into two people's conversation of 200 hundred years ago. It wouldn't work.

That's why you can not take the New Testament Scriptures and try to add them in the conversation of Jesus and Nicodemus.
Because the new testament wasn't written down yet.

 

[pearl]

Look back at the time of Nicodemus and those people they did not have the new testament book of Hebrews which was written long after the death and Resurrection of Christ Jesus.

I really think you are just missing my point. True, there was no NT, but the author who wrote 1Cor, which is the writing I referred to, knew well, as did all of the NT authors, Hebrew Scripture, and it is this Septuagint where Paul who wrote 1Cor, makes a connection between the waters of the crossing of the Red Sea as foreshadowing Christian baptism.

"I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea, and all of them were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea."

Paul images events of the Exodus period. The privileges of Israel in the wilderness are described in terms that apply strictly only to the realities of the new covenant, (baptism, spiritual food and drink}.. as Paul interprets them they point forward to the Christian experience.

 

[Faithofchristian]

I really think you are just missing my point. True, there was no NT, but the author who wrote 1Cor, which is the writing I referred to, knew well, as did all of the NT authors, Hebrew Scripture, and it is this Septuagint where Paul who wrote 1Cor, makes a connection between the waters of the crossing of the Red Sea as foreshadowing Christian baptism.

"I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea, and all of them were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea."

Paul images events of the Exodus period. The privileges of Israel in the wilderness are described in terms that apply strictly only to the realities of the new covenant, (baptism, spiritual food and drink}.. as Paul interprets them they point forward to the Christian experience.

What Paul himself and what he written was way after the death and Resurrection of Christ Jesus. Paul didn't come into the picture until around about 40 years or so after the death and Resurrection of Jesus.

Paul wasn't a disciple of Jesus at the time Jesus and Nicodemus was in that conversation. Paul didn't come to be a disciple for about 40 or so years, after the death and Resurrection of Jesus.

I doubt even Paul would haved understood what Jesus was talking about, Seeing that Nicodemus was a master of Israel, of knowing the Old Testament Scriptures. And Nicodemus had no idea what Jesus was talking about, So I doubt even Paul would haved understood what Jesus was talking about either.

 

[`mud]

In my feeble mind, I always wondered about why Jesus, the son of God,
would have to be baptized, He already had the `spirit` in Himself, didn't He ?
and from Mary, from her womb with water of birth, the physical.
Why the baptism ? And what gave John the power ?
Always confused....but happy with it !

 

[Faithofchristian]

In my feeble mind, I always wondered about why Jesus, the son of God,
would have to be baptized, He already had the `spirit` in Himself, didn't He ?
and from Mary, from her womb with water of birth, the physical.
Why the baptism ? And what gave John the power ?
Always confused....but happy with it !

The reason why Jesus was baptized, Jesus was our example as to how we are to do things, So by Jesus being baptized, for us to be baptized also and follow Jesus, in faith believing in faith in God, that leads to eternal life.

 

[`mud]

Wasn't John already doing that ?

 

[`mud]

I mean....didn't everyone already know that, that He was the Son of God ?

 

[Faithofchristian]

I mean....didn't everyone already know that, that He was the Son of God ?

Nope, not everyone knew who Jesus was,only a few knew who Jesus. The disciples knew.but at first they didn't know.

 

[pearl]

Paul wasn't a disciple of Jesus at the time Jesus and Nicodemus was in that conversation. Paul didn't come to be a disciple for about 40 or so years, after the death and Resurrection of Jesus.

The entire NT was written long after Jesus lived. The earliest being Paul's letter to the Thessalonians. Here he is writing for the Corinthians and warning that even those called by God can be condemned for infidelity. He is writing to the situation of the church as Corinth. He establishes a parallel between the situation o the Israelites in the desert and the Corinthians. He takes it for granted that his readers are familiar with the Exodus narrative, whose order he follows; the cloud (Ex13:21), the sea (14:21), the manna (16:4, 14-18), the water (17:6), and the rebellion (32:6), under the cloud Ps 105:39 in the Septuagint.

Paul wasn't a disciple of Jesus at the time Jesus and Nicodemus was in that conversation. Paul didn't come to be a disciple for about 40 or so years, after the death and Resurrection of Jesus.

Yet you refer to Nicodemus found in the gospel of John, the last to be written, long after Paul wrote. The evangelist John set up a dialogue with Jesus and Nicodemus, whose nighttime visits with Jesus may suggest his stature as a teacher who studies the law at night. John's purpose, Jesus is the source of "Spirit/living water.

 

[`mud]

It strange to me how people don't know the validity of there beliefs.
When questions are asked, the answers are evasive or inept.
Very few people knew or realized that Jesus professed to be God's Son.
Why did He have to be baptized ?
He was born of (water, Mary) and (Spirit, God).
No baptizing needed, He was God's Son.
Doesn't make sense, never did !

 

[socharlie]

It strange to me how people don't know the validity of there beliefs.
When questions are asked, the answers are evasive or inept.
Very few people knew or realized that Jesus professed to be God's Son.
Why did He have to be baptized ?
He was born of (water, Mary) and (Spirit, God).
No baptizing needed, He was God's Son.
Doesn't make sense, never did !

9“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
NT is a theological treatise.