Born of water and of the Spirit?

[syo]

In the Bible, in the book of John 3:3-6,
Jesus and Nicodemus in their Conversation, Jesus speaking to Nicodemus said, "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God"

What does Jesus mean by this ?

the person must be born (that's why abortion is a sin) and he must be baptised and join the church of jesus.

 

[12jtartar]

Faithofchristian,
There is much more to understand about Jesus saying, you must be born of water and the spirit.
First, we must all be baptized, as footstep followers of Jesus, 1Peter 2:21,Matthew 3:13-17, 3:17-21.Baptism is actually a symbol of being dead to your old way of life and born to a new way, doing the will of God, as best as we can.
The being born of water is pretty easy to understand, but the being born of the Spirit is different, and few understand what Jesus was speaking about. There is much to learn, and it is different than the mainstream religions teach, 2Corinthians 10:3-5, John 16:1-3.
Please listen carefully, I want to explain first and then I will put down the Scriptures that back up my explanation.
When Jesus told Nicodemus that Christians of The first century must be born again, or they could not see the Kingdom of God, Jesus was saying that they had to be given a token of the Spirit that would make them understand that they would go to heaven as Spirit Creatures, when they were resurrected, 1Corinthians 15:51-54, Some of these will be on earth when Jesus returns, they will be resurrected as Spirit creatures, and go to heaven to be with Jesus, as Kings and Priests, ruling over the vast majority of people who will be resurrected, and the people who live through the Great Tribulation, Armageddon, Romans 8:17, Hebrews 3:1, Revelation 5:9,10, 7:3,4, 9, 14, 20:4-6. These ones resurrected to heaven will be resurrected before Armageddon, and will take part in the Judgment of earth, with Jesus, Revelation 2:26,27, 19:7,8,14.
Let me get back to the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus, John 3:6 Jesus says that what is born of Spirit IS Spirit. Notice John 1:12,13, which tells us that God’s children are Born, Not from blood or flesh, but from God. Then back to 3:6,7,8.
These ones will meet the lord in the air when resurrected, and always be with the lord, 1Thessalonians 4:15-17, 1Corinthians 15:42-50. Remember, it is written in John that there is a general resurrection, and these will be, both the righteous and the unrighteous, John 5:28,29, Acts 24:15. All of the one who go to heaven will be immortal, while some of the ones resurrected to the earth will still die, because of disobedience. The ones resurrected unrighteous must become righteous during the Thousand Year Judgment Day or they will die again, Revelation 20:15. These will live on earth, first through the Thousand Year Judgment Day, and then for eternity on earth, which they will work to restore it to a paradise earth, Revelation 20:7-9, 21:1-5. Just like in all Kingdoms, there are Kings and there are subjects.
When God States His Purpose, it is impossible for it not to come true, exactly as He Purposed, Isaiah 14:24-27, 55:11. God stated His Purpose at Genesis 1:26-28. Also at Isaiah 45:18, where God says that He created the earth to be inhabited. Also the Heavens belong to Jehovah God, but the earth He has given to men Psalms 115:16.
The Purpose of God is not difficult to understand. Because of the rebellion of Adam and Eve, God made a way for all their descendants to receive the same future that God wanted for Adam and Eve. Be Jesus giving his life for mankind, all who put faith in that Ransom, have the chance of living forever on earth, just like Adam and Eve could have. God’s purpose does not change!!!

 

[Faithofchristian]

Faithofchristian,
There is much more to understand about Jesus saying, you must be born of water and the spirit.
First, we must all be baptized, as footstep followers of Jesus, 1Peter 2:21,Matthew 3:13-17, 3:17-21.Baptism is actually a symbol of being dead to your old way of life and born to a new way, doing the will of God, as best as we can.
The being born of water is pretty easy to understand, but the being born of the Spirit is different, and few understand what Jesus was speaking about. There is much to learn, and it is different than the mainstream religions teach, 2Corinthians 10:3-5, John 16:1-3.
Please listen carefully, I want to explain first and then I will put down the Scriptures that back up my explanation.
When Jesus told Nicodemus that Christians of The first century must be born again, or they could not see the Kingdom of God, Jesus was saying that they had to be given a token of the Spirit that would make them understand that they would go to heaven as Spirit Creatures, when they were resurrected, 1Corinthians 15:51-54, Some of these will be on earth when Jesus returns, they will be resurrected as Spirit creatures, and go to heaven to be with Jesus, as Kings and Priests, ruling over the vast majority of people who will be resurrected, and the people who live through the Great Tribulation, Armageddon, Romans 8:17, Hebrews 3:1, Revelation 5:9,10, 7:3,4, 9, 14, 20:4-6. These ones resurrected to heaven will be resurrected before Armageddon, and will take part in the Judgment of earth, with Jesus, Revelation 2:26,27, 19:7,8,14.
Let me get back to the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus, John 3:6 Jesus says that what is born of Spirit IS Spirit. Notice John 1:12,13, which tells us that God’s children are Born, Not from blood or flesh, but from God. Then back to 3:6,7,8.
These ones will meet the lord in the air when resurrected, and always be with the lord, 1Thessalonians 4:15-17, 1Corinthians 15:42-50. Remember, it is written in John that there is a general resurrection, and these will be, both the righteous and the unrighteous, John 5:28,29, Acts 24:15. All of the one who go to heaven will be immortal, while some of the ones resurrected to the earth will still die, because of disobedience. The ones resurrected unrighteous must become righteous during the Thousand Year Judgment Day or they will die again, Revelation 20:15. These will live on earth, first through the Thousand Year Judgment Day, and then for eternity on earth, which they will work to restore it to a paradise earth, Revelation 20:7-9, 21:1-5. Just like in all Kingdoms, there are Kings and there are subjects.
When God States His Purpose, it is impossible for it not to come true, exactly as He Purposed, Isaiah 14:24-27, 55:11. God stated His Purpose at Genesis 1:26-28. Also at Isaiah 45:18, where God says that He created the earth to be inhabited. Also the Heavens belong to Jehovah God, but the earth He has given to men Psalms 115:16.
The Purpose of God is not difficult to understand. Because of the rebellion of Adam and Eve, God made a way for all their descendants to receive the same future that God wanted for Adam and Eve. Be Jesus giving his life for mankind, all who put faith in that Ransom, have the chance of living forever on earth, just like Adam and Eve could have. God’s purpose does not change!!!

Look it's very simple, being born again of the water is being baptized. As you can find out in the book of Leviticus, that when someone defiled themselves, they were to go and bathe themselves in water, to cleanse themselves.
So the same for us to day, that when we are baptized in water, we cleanse ourselves also.

Now as for being born again of the Spirit of God.
In 1 Peter 1 22-23, Peter explains this to be born again of the Spirit of God, is by the Word of God.
Thereby studying the Word of God, our Spirit is renewed ( born again) by the word of God.
It's very simple,when seeing what
1 Peter 1:22-23, being born again of the Spirit of God. Is by the Word of God.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Look it's very simple, being born again of the water is being baptized. As you can find out in the book of Leviticus, that when someone defiled themselves, they were to go and bathe themselves in water, to cleanse themselves.
So the same for us to day, that when we are baptized in water, we cleanse ourselves also.

Now as for being born again of the Spirit of God.
In 1 Peter 1 22-23, Peter explains this to be born again of the Spirit of God, is by the Word of God.
Thereby studying the Word of God, our Spirit is renewed ( born again) by the word of God.
It's very simple,when seeing what
1 Peter 1:22-23, being born again of the Spirit of God. Is by the Word of God.

Have you changed your view? In earlier posts, both above , and in some discussions we had in another thread, you said being born again of the water was the natural birth. I had said it was water baptism, and you disagreed. Now it sounds like you are saying, that being born of the water, is water baptism - correct?

Odd - you didn't want anyone else to use NT scriptures to explain, but when you are explaining that is exactly what you are doing. I think we should use NT scriptures as the Messiah was setting up his kingdom (the church).

Of course Nicodemus didn't understand what he was talking about. It was going to be something new in the kingdom he was establishing. He told Nicodemus you have to be born again of the water, and of the Spirit to enter the kingdom. John the baptist, and the Messiah had been preaching the kingdom is at hand.

The Messiah gave Peter the keys to the kingdom. Matthew 16:19

Peter used those keys in Acts 2:38-39 Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name, for the remission of sins (that's being born of the water), and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit ( that's being born of the Spirit), for the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as YHWH our God shall call.

That's what it means to be born again of the water, and of the Spirit. Of course when you obey the word you have been born again of incorruptible seed. The word is what told us what to do. But you have to receive his Spirit to be born of the Spirit. He said, if any man have not the Spirit, he is none of his. Romans 8:9-11

 

[Faithofchristian]

Have you changed your view? In earlier posts, both above , and in some discussions we had in another thread, you said being born again of the water was the natural birth. I had said it was water baptism, and you disagreed. Now it sounds like you are saying, that being born of the water, is water baptism - correct?

Odd - you didn't want anyone else to use NT scriptures to explain, but when you are explaining that is exactly what you are doing. I think we should use NT scriptures as the Messiah was setting up his kingdom (the church).

Of course Nicodemus didn't understand what he was talking about. It was going to be something new in the kingdom he was establishing. He told Nicodemus you have to be born again of the water, and of the Spirit to enter the kingdom. John the baptist, and the Messiah had been preaching the kingdom is at hand.

The Messiah gave Peter the keys to the kingdom. Matthew 16:19

Peter used those keys in Acts 2:38-39 Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name, for the remission of sins (that's being born of the water), and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit ( that's being born of the Spirit), for the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as YHWH our God shall call.

That's what it means to be born again of the water, and of the Spirit. Of course when you obey the word you have been born again of incorruptible seed. The word is what told us what to do. But you have to receive his Spirit to be born of the Spirit. He said, if any man have not the Spirit, he is none of his. Romans 8:9-11

In the book of Leviticus, explains all about Baptism. I forgot all about the book of Leviticus which explains all about Baptism.

Now as for being born of the Spirit of God, Is by the word of God.
1st Peter 1:22-23--" Seeing you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that you love one another with a pure heart fervently"
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, But of incorruptible, By the word of God, which lives and abideth for ever"

Therefore being born again of the Spirit of God, Is by the word of God.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Has anyone read the third chapter of John? That which is born of the spirit IS spirit. And that which is spirit is invisible like the wind. All these people who claim to be born again are NOT spirit and are NOT invisible. The second birth will occur when Jesus returns and raises everyone from their graves. THEN they will be born again as spiritual beings and not flesh and blod.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Has anyone read the third chapter of John? That which is born of the spirit IS spirit. And that which is spirit is invisible like the wind. All these people who claim to be born again are NOT spirit and are NOT invisible. The second birth will occur when Jesus returns and raises everyone from their graves. THEN they will be born again as spiritual beings and not flesh and blod.

There is no one in the graves.

Look to be born again of the Spirit and of water.
To be born again of the water, is thru baptism
To be born again of the Spirit, Is by the word of God.
1st Peter 1:22-23.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

I think that as a "Christian" you miss the whole idea. You don't believe Jesus is coming back and resurrecting people from the dead? That is a fundamental belief of "Christians". And you did not answer what the third chapter of John means. That which is born of the spirit IS spirit. Think of the three little pigs houses. One is made of straw and one is made of wood and one is made of bricks. The one made of straw IS straw and the one made of brick IS brick. You would never say the house made of straw IS brick. One who is born of the spirit IS spirit and cannot be seen in a mirror. Can you see yourself in a mirror? Then you are NOT spirit and are NOT born of the spirit. The basic hope of Christians is for Jesus to return and give them new life, new birth, of the spirit. I don't know what you call Christianity but it is not what Christ teaches. Read John chapter 3 and explain what it means.

 

[Katzpur]

There is no one in the graves.

Look to be born again of the Spirit and of water.
To be born again of the water, is thru baptism
To be born again of the Spirit, Is by the word of God.
1st Peter 1:22-23.

And how do you believe Acts 8:17-19 figures in? It says, "Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost."

Why would the Apostles have laid their hands on people's heads to give them the Holy Ghost (i.e. the Spirit) unless this was necessary?

 

[Katzpur]

Has anyone read the third chapter of John? That which is born of the spirit IS spirit. And that which is spirit is invisible like the wind. All these people who claim to be born again are NOT spirit and are NOT invisible. The second birth will occur when Jesus returns and raises everyone from their graves. THEN they will be born again as spiritual beings and not flesh and blod.

So I take this to mean that you believe that when Jesus was raised from the dead, He did not have a body of flesh and bone, even though He specifically pointed out to His Apostles that He did. Do I understand you correctly?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Baptism and the laying on of hands gives you the gift of the Holy Spirit but this is not the same as being born of the spirit. Birth requires time. When a new life begins in its mother's womb, it takes nine months to be born. When a new spiritual life begins it also takes time. A person can have the Holy Spirit within himself but is not born again until the return of Christ. A person with the Holy Spirit is like an embryo growing and waiting to be born.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Christ is not the same as another human being. He is God and can do things others cannot do. Yes He had a body but He also passed through solid walls to appear to the apostles. Can a regular person do that? And this still does not answer John chapter three. That which is born of the spirit IS spirit. Do you know anyone who IS spirit?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

I thought not.

 

[Faithofchristian]

And how do you believe Acts 8:17-19 figures in? It says, "Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost."

Why would the Apostles have laid their hands on people's heads to give them the Holy Ghost (i.e. the Spirit) unless this was necessary?

That was how people received the Holy Spirit by the laying of hands on people, this was not being born again by the Holy Spirit.
Being born again of the Holy Spirit is by the word of God, As 1st Peter 1:22-23
explains it.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

John chapter three anyone? It is easy to ignore something you don't believe or understand but that does not change it.

 

[Katzpur]

That was how people received the Holy Spirit by the laying of hands on people, this was not being born again by the Holy Spirit.
Being born again of the Holy Spirit is by the word of God, As 1st Peter 1:22-23
explains it.

I believe both are essential -- hearing and accepting the word of God and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. You may or may not agree.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

I believe both are essential -- hearing and accepting the word of God and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. You may or may not agree.

I believe both are essential -- hearing and accepting the Iword of God and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. You may or may not agree.

I am still curious about your views on John chapter 3 where it says that which is born of the spirit IS spirit. How would you define "IS".? If my house is brick that means it is made of bricks. If my desk is wood that means it is made of wood. So if a person is born of the spirit is that person not made of spirit instead of flesh and blood? The only time people will be spirits is after they are raised from their graves by Jesus. So that is when they will be "born again" or born of the spirit. Your views please.

 

[Faithofchristian]

I believe both are essential -- hearing and accepting the word of God and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. You may or may not agree.

It's not that I disagree with you, I go by what is written in 1st Peter 1:22-23.
That to be born again of the Spirit of God is by the word of God. As it is written in
1st Peter 1:22-23.

 

[Faithofchristian]

the person must be born (that's why abortion is a sin) and he must be baptised and join the church of jesus.

The churches of to day are not the church of Christ Jesus.
If they were the church of Christ Jesus, then they would not all be going their own ways. But be teaching the truth of Christ Jesus.