Biblical prophesy

[whirlingmerc]

You failed, as usual. Yes, Ron Wyatt was more than a few French fries short of a happy meal. He found modern day brass valve wheels and called them "chariot wheels" and other acts of idiocy.

Wood failed because of his terrible bias and ignorance. His claims were refuted by the reliable test of C14 dating. The objects being dated were well within the limits of the method. Why are the others wrong and Wood "right"?

By the way, you may not have like my claim that Wood was a loon, but that is a demonstrable fact. He is a self admitted Young Earth Creationist. One has to reject all of the sciences to be a YEC. One can do some work in the sciences while being one, but when it comes to defending YEC beliefs they have to throw science away.

Actually C14 is pretty problematic but also for you... Cambrian diamond should have about 0 C14 atoms given a few thousand year half life and yet... tones of C14 in Cambrian diamonds why is that? one explanation is that they were made after a recent worldwide flood

C14 dating mainly to organic things that die (not reliable tho)... pottery would depend a great deal on the material and may not at all apply to fragments of pottery particularly if inorganic ( but C14 is not very reliable anyway)

eruptions of mountains nearby and various other measurements discussed a bit here
http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2008/08/Carbon-14-Dating-at-Jericho.aspx

 

[74x12]

So it comes down to "I am write cuz of conspiracies"? Are you kidding me?

Psalm 2:1-3
2 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying,
3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.


I've been telling people on RF. You're not stronger or smarter than they are.

And where does it say that? As if it really mattered.

In many places if you know where to look. 1 Corinthians 2:11 is a good one. Here we see that to know the thoughts of God you need the Spirit of God.

 

[sojourner]

clearly fictitious sound like allot of assertions without evidence
can you give an example?

The occupation of Canaan is a glaring example.

 

[sojourner]

Psalm 2:1-3
2 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying,
3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.


I've been telling people on RF. You're not stronger or smarter than they are.

In many places if you know where to look. 1 Corinthians 2:11 is a good one. Here we see that to know the thoughts of God you need the Spirit of God.

Well... so much for the Holy Spirit at work in interpretation...

 

[whirlingmerc]

That is more than quite a stretch. You need to do a lot better than that.

And yes, some of the books of the Bible are fairly historical, and some are clearly fictitious.

Could there be a bias on your part not to consider evidence you are not aware of?

 

[Subduction Zone]

clearly fictitious sound like allot of assertions without evidence
can you give an example?

The entire book of Genesis for example. We know there never were only two people, there was no worldwide flood, in fact in all scenarios it can be shown that it did not happen or that the Ark was not needed.

And the proper words to use are "a lot", not "allot".

 

[Subduction Zone]

Could there be a bias on your part not to consider evidence you are not aware of?

Possible, but highly unlikely.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Psalm 2:1-3
2 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying,
3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.


I've been telling people on RF. You're not stronger or smarter than they are.

In many places if you know where to look. 1 Corinthians 2:11 is a good one. Here we see that to know the thoughts of God you need the Spirit of God.

You are still stretching it.

 

[whirlingmerc]

Possible, but highly unlikely.

It's a bit humorous that the very liberal British Museum has a dated carbon sample that agreed with Wood and re dated it.... I dunno... sounds like they didn't like the first number so... redo it until its more to their liking

but in any case C14 has many problematic aspects... recent eruptions or other environmental issues... variations in groundwater bringing other materials... etc

 

[Subduction Zone]

It's a bit humorous that the very liberal British Museum has a dated carbon sample that agreed with Wood and re dated it.... I dunno... sounds like they didn't like the first number so... redo it until its more to their liking

but in any case C14 has many problematic aspects... recent eruptions or other environmental issues... variations in groundwater bringing other materials... etc

Do you have a valid source for this claim? With the Wiki article that I linked earlier you can at least follow their links to sources.

 

[whirlingmerc]

Do you have a valid source for this claim? With the Wiki article that I linked earlier you can at least follow their links to sources.

By Kathleen Kenyan's original argument... where are the imported Phonetial potter? was answered she looked in the poor section of town and Wood found it in the rich.
That does not require problematic C14

Why wasn't it there? it was. She didn't look in the right place. (not being found was never a great argument on her part)

 

[Subduction Zone]

By Kathleen Kenyan's original argument... where are the imported Phonetial potter? was answered she looked in the poor section of town and Wood found it in the rich.
That does not require problematic C14

Why wasn't it there? it was. She didn't look in the right place. (not being found was never a great argument on her part)

Your misinterpretation does not cut it. You need to find a reliable source of the simple wiki article was enough to refute your claim.

 

[sealchan]

I just saw this video by Aron Ra where he goes over why the prophecies of the Bible fail:

He points out quite correctly that to be valid a prophesy must be clear and have a set date. Given enough time any "prophecy" that is vague enough will be fulfilled. Quite often more than once. Lowering Bible prophecies to the level of "you will see a red car" would make all prophecy worthless.

You can watch the video if you like, but it is not a prerequisite to discuss prophecy here.

I am not impressed with how some of the Jewish Testament quotes were utilized in the first chapters of the gospel of Matthew to suggest Jesus was fulfilling a prophecy. They seemed to be taken out of a more applicable context.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I am not impressed with how some of the Jewish Testament quotes were utilized in the first chapters of the gospel of Matthew to suggest Jesus was fulfilling a prophecy. They seemed to be taken out of a more applicable context.

It is one of the common "sins" of Christianity. The quote mine the Old Testament. Sometimes they take a single verse out of context. No wonder that it is one of the favorite techniques of creationists.

And both Matthew and Luke showed that they were of Greek extraction since they both based a "prediction" on a mistranslation of the Septuagint into Greek. The Virgin Birth myth arose from the mistranslation of a historical verse and trying to change it into a prophecy. Luke really screwed up since he had Jesus being born in both roughly 4 BCE and 6 CE. He had him born before the death of Herod the Great and during the census of Quirinius.

 

[whirlingmerc]

It is one of the common "sins" of Christianity. The quote mine the Old Testament. Sometimes they take a single verse out of context. No wonder that it is one of the favorite techniques of creationists.

And both Matthew and Luke showed that they were of Greek extraction since they both based a "prediction" on a mistranslation of the Septuagint into Greek. The Virgin Birth myth arose from the mistranslation of a historical verse and trying to change it into a prophecy. Luke really screwed up since he had Jesus being born in both roughly 4 BCE and 6 CE. He had him born before the death of Herod the Great and during the census of Quirinius.

Perhaps you don't understand the context?

But the Isaiah prediction of an 'Alma having child' in context of Isaiah is fitting of a virgin birth and the Rabi's who translated the Hebrew into greek translated it as virgin

 

[whirlingmerc]

I am not impressed with how some of the Jewish Testament quotes were utilized in the first chapters of the gospel of Matthew to suggest Jesus was fulfilling a prophecy. They seemed to be taken out of a more applicable context.

Rising from the dead does settle allot of issues

 

[whirlingmerc]

Your misinterpretation does not cut it. You need to find a reliable source of the simple wiki article was enough to refute your claim.

Actually it was Cypriot pottery... but... you are appealing to Kathleen Kenyon but her own main argument undoes her complete case... the Cypriot pottery was found in the rich section of town
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/304063412312616317/

and the grain left uneaten... as the Bible claimed it happened during Barley harvest... Rehab hid the spies under barley on the roof... all consistent
''The presence of these grain stores in the destroyed city is entirely consistent with the biblical account,'' Dr. Wood wrote. ''The city did not fall as a result of a starvation siege, as was so common in ancient times. Instead, the Bible tells us Jericho was destroyed after but seven days.''

 

[whirlingmerc]

Archaeologist Dr. Bryant Wood argues that the localized type of pottery called Cypriot Bi-chrome pottery was found in abundance within the destruction level of these walls. This is pottery that dates to the early part of the Late Bronze Period (or 15th century BC). If so, it matches perfectly with the Biblical record that tells us that Joshua conquered the city somewhere around 1,410 BC.

http://biblicalisraeltours.com/2016/08/the-walls-of-jericho/

Kathleen Kenyon's original argument completely falls apart
She looked in the poor section of town for expensive pottery

 

[David T]

I just saw this video by Aron Ra where he goes over why the prophecies of the Bible fail:

He points out quite correctly that to be valid a prophesy must be clear and have a set date. Given enough time any "prophecy" that is vague enough will be fulfilled. Quite often more than once. Lowering Bible prophecies to the level of "you will see a red car" would make all prophecy worthless.

You can watch the video if you like, but it is not a prerequisite to discuss prophecy here.

Prophesy is not predictive that's scientific reductionism nonsense. It's dynamical and It's also closer to hard emergence in scientific theory than realized. a bit like a termite colony and one termite says "golden towers of amazing beauty will rise up in the desert and god will bless us with a mighty kingdom". And eventually a termite mound emerges unpredictably. Science has no power to determine the termite mound forms from the termites. And guess what we have no Power to determine such matters till afterwards.

I think reading the old testament story of Joseph is probably the most accurate dissection I know of in what is going on with prophesy. No magic, no external intervention and totally unpredictable from the beginning looking forward and only understandable from the end of the story looking backwards.

 

[Thaif]

What makes you think that he is biased? He has a strong viewpoint but he does not deny reality. What evidence do you have for any successful prophecies? And one thing one needs to keep in mind is that any vague enough prophecy without any dates is bound to be "fulfilled". Specific prophecies in the Bible fail in epic fashion. The Tyre prophesy is one of them. It was a specific prophesy about how a specific king would defeat and destroy Tyre. He failed to do so. At that point the liars for Jesus, also known as apologists, come in and try to change the interpretation of the text.

I'm pretty sure Nebuchadnezzar trashed Tyre, destroyed part of the city and most of the people abandoned it as a lost cause. There's no interpretation here and I think you can find the details outside of the Bible. Also, Ezekiel said in his prophecy that many other people would come and have a go at trashing it, history will show the likes of Alexander the great and the Roman Empire trashing the city also and probably a few others.