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Biblical Contradictions

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Mister Emu, Sep 23, 2004.

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  1. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    I have no problem accepting any and or all of the the Bible as metaphor and if all these dang Christians would just stop telling me it`s the "literal" word of God I`d stop posting all these silly contradictions.

    :)
     
  2. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    Sorry, I thought you were reffering to me, as you have reffered to my refutations as biblical gymnastics before.

    When I read it, it seems to me, that it is in reference as to one of the reasons why the field is called "the field of blood", not so much as the cause of death.

    I believe that what tuppence was trying to say is that bodies do not burst from falling unless they had decomposed, thus it is reasonable to conclude he had been dead for a little bit.
     
  3. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    I`ll have a look at it again tomorrow with that perspective in mind, you may have a point but it`s still hard to get around the lack of mention of the hanging.

    Thanks
     
  4. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    I`ve had some time to ponder your harmonization and while I agree the first part as to who purchased the field of blood makes sense it only really makes sense in a material sense not in a Biblically inerrant sense.

    Without your harmonization we are left to rely on the divinity of an unknown author and the divinity of the Church leaders who chose this particular book.

    With your harmonization we have to rely on the same two aspects above while including the divinty of supposed ancient Hebrew land records.

    It either came from God or it same from the land records.

    It actually adds to the possible errancy in a spiritual sense.

    I`lltry and find some time tonight to re-read the passages.
     
  5. harold e. rice

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    Man was created after the other animals Gen 1:25,26,27
    Man was created before the other animals Gen 2:18,19

    Seed time and harvest were never to cease Gen 8:22
    Seed time and harvest did cease for seven years Gen 41:54,56/ Gen 45:6

    God hardened Pharaoh's heart Ex 4:21/ Ed 9:12
    Pharaoh hardened his own heart Ex 8:15

    All the cattle and horses in Egypt died Ex 9:3,6/ 14:9
    All the horses of Egypt did not die Ex 14:9

    Moses feared Pharaoh Ex 2:14,15,23; 4:19
    Moses did not fear Pharaoh Heb 11:27

    There died of the plague twenty-four thousand Num 25:9
    There died of the plague but twenty-three thousand 1 Cor 10:8

    John the Baptist was Elias Matt 11:14
    John the Baptist was not Elias John 1:21

    The father of Joseph, Mary's husband was Jacob Matt 1:16
    The father of Mary's husband was Heli Luke 3:23

    The father of Salah was Arphaxad Gen 11:12
    The father of Salah was Cainan Luke 3:35,36

    There were fourteen generations from Abraham to David Matt 1:17
    There were but thirteen generations from Abraham to David Matt 1:2-6

    There were fourteen generations from the Babylonian captivity to Christ.
    Matt 1:17
    There were but thirteen generations from the Babylonian captivity to Christ
    Matt 1:12-16

    The infant Christ was taken into Egypt Matt 2:14,15,19,21,23
    The infant Christ was not taken into Egypt Luke 2:22, 39

    Christ was tempted in the wilderness Mark 1:12,13
    Christ was not tempted in the wilderness John 2:1,2

    Christ preached his first sermon on the mount Matt 5:1,2
    Christ preached his first sermon on the plain Luke 6:17,20
     
  6. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    Dang Mr. Emu, there seems to be alot of these contradiction things.

    You`re gonna be busy.
     
  7. harold e. rice

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    John was in prison when Jesus went into Galilee Mark 1:14
    John was not in prison when Jesus went into Galilee John 1:43/ John 3:22-24

    Christ's disciples were commanded to go forth with a staff and sandals Mark 6:8,9
    Christ's disciples were commanded to go forth with neither staffs nor sandals.
    Matt 10:9,10

    A woman of Canaan besought Jesus Matt 15:22
    It was a Greek woman who besought Him Mark 7:26

    Two blind men besought Jesus Matt 20:30
    Only one blind man besought Him Luke 18:35,38

    Christ was crucified at the third hour Mark 15:25
    Christ was not crucified until the sixth hour John 19:14,15

    The two thieves reviled Christ. Matt 27:44/ Mark 15:32
    Only one of the thieves reviled Christ Luke 23:39,40

    Satan entered into Judas while at supper John 13:27
    Satan entered into him before the supper Luke 22:3,4,7

    The potter's field was purchased by Judas Acts 1:18
    The potter's field was purchased by the Chief Priests Matt 27:6,7

    There was but one woman who came to the sepulchre John 20:1
    There were two women who came to the sepulchre Matt 28:1
    There were three women who came to the sepulchre Mark 16:1
    There were more than three women who came to the sepulchre Luke 24:10

    It was at sunrise when they came to the sepulchre Mark 16:2
    It was some time before sunrise when they came. John 20:1

    There were two angels seen by the women at the sepulchre, and
    they were standing up. Luke 24:4
    There was but one angel seen, and he was sitting down. Matt 28:2,5
    There were two angels seen within the sepulchre. John 20:11,12
    There was but one angel seen within the sepulchre Mark 16:5

    Christ was to be three days and three nights in the grave Matt 12:40
    Christ was but two days and two nights in the grave
    Mark 15:25,42,44,45,46; 16:9>
    Holy ghost bestowed at Pentecost Acts 1:8,5
    Holy ghost bestowed before pentecost John 20:22

    The disciples were commanded immediately after the resurrection to go into Galilee
    Matt 28:10
    The disciples were commanded immediately after the
    resurrection to go tarry at Jerusalem Luke 24:49

    Jesus first appeared to the eleven disciples in a room at Jerusalem
    Luke 24:33,36,37/ John 20:19
    Jesus first appeared to the eleven on a mountain in Galilee Matt 28:16,17
     
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  8. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    Gen: 2:5-25 are on day six of creation.

    The time to seed and the time to harvest did not stop, just the growing of food, also if you want to take it that seed time and harvest mean getting food then they still did not cease but stalled, if they ceased we all would have died :)

    Ex 9:3 merely says bad sickness, and 9:6 says all the egyptian cattle were killed, not all the horses.

    Did you just get these from a site, or a list or something? One of those quotes(15:23) has nothing to do with the subject. The other two refer to two different times, when he fled egypt he was afraid for his life, when he came back with God on his side, he wasn't.

    There are two ways to approach this "contradiction"

    1) 1 Cor. 10:8 says in a single day, while Num 25:9 does not give a specific time frame.

    2) It is a clerical error, where a scribe accidently mistook a number to mean another, where the differences are like those between a , and a . or a : and a ; .

    emphasis mine

    Seems is the word linwood, seems is the word :)
     
  9. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    If you had read the thread you would know I already took care of this.

    John 3:22 says that he went into Judea which is not Galilee.

    I will take care of more when I wake up.
     
  10. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    Mister Emu,

    You have bypassed three of the disharmonies/errors I posted - perhaps you'd like to tackle this one

    -pah-
     
  11. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    Sorry pah, it was not intentional at all.

    If you don't mind I will get to this one later today, I'm trying to get to bed sheesh :p
     
  12. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    The Bible, for this story, not only shows two numbers for those that went to Joseph in Egypt.

    Source: http://www.theskepticalreview.com/jftill/errors/error1.html
    A total of 67 (maybe 66) of Jacob's traveling family
    This party numbered 75


    I presented this to whet your appetite The multitude of errors in this and related stories is best expressed by the source - Farrell Till's article Please harmonize the points made in that article.

    -pah-
     
  13. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    Boy you seem to be working that springboard hard tonight.
    :)

    You are correct that you took care of part of it since I have re-read the passages and I can`t agree with Acts not stating how Judas was hung.

    However while the land records harmonization does indeed show that the ownership of Potters field may not be an actual contradiction it only strengthens the errancy of the passages.

    I realise this is a "contradictions" thread and not an "inerrancy" thread but I thought I`d bring it up anyway.

    Damned if you do, damned if you don`t.

    I don`t envy your position.
     
  14. meogi

    meogi Well-Known Member

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    Since it appeared to have gotton overlooked... unless no one really does have a response to it. ;)
     
  15. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    http://ffrf.org/lfif/?t=stone.txt

    Since the text may not be republished in the original form and since it is always nicer to have the problem posted (I wish my last one was amenable to posting for all it's points) I summarize and selectively quote here.

    What time did the women visit the tomb? John said it was dark and the other three gospels say at the beginning of dawn or early in the morning

    Who were the women? Each Gospel give a different answer.

    What was their purpose? One says to see the tomb two say to bring spices and the fourth says the body had already been spiced

    Was the tomb open when they arrived? Three say yes, one gospel says no

    Who was at the tomb when they arrived? An angel, two angels, one young man and two men - completed disagreement from all gospels

    Where were these messengers situated? one angel sitting on a stone, young man sitting inside, two men standing inside, two angels sitting on the ends of the bed - again - complete disagreement

    What did the messenger(s) say?

    * Matthew: "Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. He is not here for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead: and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you." (28:5-7)
    * Mark: "Be not afrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him. But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you." (16:6-7)
    * Luke: "Why seek ye the living among the dead? He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again." (24:5-7)
    * John: "Woman, why weepest thou?" (20:13)

    Did the women tell what happened? One says no; the other three, yes.

    When Mary returned from the tomb, did she know Jesus had been resurrected? Three no's and a yes

    When did Mary first see Jesus? Two say before she returned to the disciples; one, after

    Could Jesus be touched after the resurrection? one "yes", one "no"


    After the women, to whom did Jesus first appear?

    * Matthew: Eleven disciples (28:16)
    * Mark: Two disciples in the country, later to eleven (16:12,14)
    * Luke: Two disciples in Emmaus, later to eleven (24:13,36)
    * John: Ten disciples (Judas and Thomas were absent) (20:19, 24)
    * Paul: First to Cephas (Peter), then to the twelve. (Twelve? Judas was dead). (I Corinthians 15:5)

    Where did Jesus first appear to the disciples?

    * Matthew: On a mountain in Galilee (60-100 miles away) (28:16-17)
    * Mark: To two in the country, to eleven "as they sat at meat" (16:12,14)
    * Luke: In Emmaus (about seven miles away) at evening, to the rest in a room in Jerusalem later that night. (24:31, 36)
    * John: In a room, at evening (20:19)

    Did the disciples believe the two men?

    * Mark: No (16:13)
    * Luke: Yes (24:34--it is the group speaking here, not the two)

    What happened at the appearance?

    * Matthew: Disciples worshipped, some doubted, "Go preach." (28:17-20)
    * Mark: Jesus reprimanded them, said "Go preach" (16:14-19)
    * Luke: Christ incognito, vanishing act, materialized out of thin air, reprimand, supper (24:13-51)
    * John: Passed through solid door, disciples happy, Jesus blesses them, no reprimand (21:19-23)

    Did Jesus stay on earth for a while? Two say it happened all on Sunday; one other, 8 days later; the last one, 40 days later

    Where did the ascension take place?

    * Matthew: No ascension. Book ends on mountain in Galilee
    * Mark: In or near Jerusalem, after supper (16:19)
    * Luke: In Bethany, very close to Jerusalem, after supper (24:50-51)
    * John: No ascension
    * Paul: No ascension
    * Acts: Ascended from Mount of Olives (1:9-12)

    -pah-
     
  16. meogi

    meogi Well-Known Member

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    I guess I should have posted the actual question. Summary:

    Using each of the 4 detailed descriptions of the ressurection (Matthew 28, Mark 16, Luke 24, and John 20-21... also short descriptions in Acts 1:3-12 and 1 Corinthians 13:5-8), give a chronological ordering of what occurred during that time. No details may be left out. Pah's list above covers the 'contradictions.'
     
  17. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    One more from my inbox:

    -pah-
     
  18. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    I have read that many bible scholars are positive the Authors of Matthew and Luke relied heavily on the book of Mark.

    If this is so how did they get the story so mixed up?
     
  19. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    Not to hard, all I do is bounce around a bit, I'm not very good at gymnastics :p

    Ok, let me state my position here, I believe that the Bible as written was the word of God, however I also believe that there have been clerical errors over the years. If there were no clerical errors it would be a miracle of unthinkable porportions.

    Also I have a question, do you all actually want me to answer these questions in a goodly amount of time? Becasue burying me in "contradictions" and "discrepancies" is not going to help. I ask that you please refrain from posting any more such "contradictions" until I can catch up, biblical scholars spend years researching these things and you want it done in 10 mins :p :)
     
  20. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    Right now, I am going to go through this thread a get everything I missed written down. Then I am going to work through them, and try my best to end this so far. If I cannot correct one, it does not mean I concede that there are contradictions merely that I am not a biblical scholar and do not have the expirience to refute it(them).

    I would however like to thank everyone for the interest, and for helping me grow in my faith :)
     
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