Biblical Contradictions

[Jayhawker Soule]

I wonder if you'd mind suggesting a timeline that makes sense of this while still making your comments about azumos/artos relevant?

Sure I woudln't mind, ...

Great. PM me when you've posted it.

 

[BobbyisStrange]

I am sorry, Vadergirl you are wrong…Let me give you my theory of why the contradiction stands…I am assuming you know the differences between the synoptic and canonical gospels. The reason why John had Jesus die prior to Passover was because; Jesus was the Lamb of God who had to be slain/sacrificed for the world…just as the Passover lamb was sacrificed. John was making the story metaphorical (which he did all throughout the book)…I doubt the writer of John, knew that one day his book would be read along side 3 other versions of the "same" story, so he made his own changes, but by doing this he made it contradictory.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I am sorry, Vadergirl you are wrong…Let me give you my theory of why the contradiction stands…I am assuming you know the differences between the synoptic and canonical gospels.

Actually, it's a bit unclear to me that you understand these terms. Would you mind explaining what you mean by them?

 

[Vadergirl123]

Vadergirl123First of all.

I can see where a claim that the verb form of "formed" being pluperfect helps your case immensely, but looking at a couple of Biblical references, one of which is Strong's on-line Concordance, "formed" as used in Genesis 2:19 isn't regarded as pluperfect, but rather imperfect.

From Strong's

Parsing Information for "formed," Hebrew: "yatsar."

Parsing Information

Stem: Qal
Aspect: Imperfect
​

Definition of Qal

Qal is the most frequently used verb pattern. It expresses the "simple" or "casual" action of the root in the active voice.

Examples: he sat, he ate, he went, he said, he rose, he bought​

I have a Strong's concordance and it doesn't mention qual being used with the verb, but it does say that yatsar means"to mould"
​

Second thought

If the Bible says "He ate" instead of the correct "He had eaten" then this is an outright mistake; a biblical error. And, when such mistakes are revealed one has to wonder how many other mistakes lie in the Bible. Mistakes, perhaps very grave ones, which will never be corrected, and the real truth never known.

So, contradictory passages, even those shown not to be contradictory, but merely mistakes, put any notion of Biblical inerrancy and infallibility to rest.

Just sayin'.

It's not a biblical error it's a copyist error. The copies of the Bible(which are what peole have) aren't perfect, but If I remember correctly, they're 97-98% accurate.

 

[Vadergirl123]

Great. PM me when you've posted it.

I will

 

[BobbyisStrange]

Actually, it's a bit unclear to me that you understand these terms. Would you mind explaining what you mean by them?

Absolutely,

When I mentioned the synoptic gospels I was referring to Matthew Mark and Luke. These 3 books have very many parallels and share many stories and sayings. Scholars believe that these 3 books shared a common source

Mark being the first gospel written, Matthew and Luke used mark as a source also using a theoretical book called Q. It is believed that Matthew and Luke also used independent sources called M and L because they do have independent material that is exclusive to their gospel. Jesus is pretty much viewed the same way in these 3 gospels.

Now when the Bible was canonized it had 4 gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John…These are known as the canonical gospels.

Now John was also written much later than the synoptic gospels so some scholars think that it had time to be penned more theologically sound. John is also based on the gospel of Luke and has minute pieces taken from Mark. John also changed a lot of timing and order of events and he also added more detail to further what he thought they should mean. This is why I think John had Jesus crucified before Passover, to make him the sacrificial Lamb. It is also the reason why I brought up the differences…For some reason I think you already knew this.

Or am I wrong in my understanding?

 

[Vadergirl123]

I am sorry, Vadergirl you are wrong…Let me give you my theory of why the contradiction stands…I am assuming you know the differences between the synoptic and canonical gospels.. John was making the story metaphorical (which he did all throughout the book)…I doubt the writer of John, knew that one day his book would be read along side 3 other versions of the "same" story, so he made his own changes, but by doing this he made it contradictory.

You didn't know John personally, so you don't know what he intended(you can't even be sure he meant the story to be a metaphor). I'm not wrong since Mark NEVER even said he was eating the passover before he was crucified(people just assume he was) the accounts of John and Mark don't contradict about when the passover took place.

 

[BobbyisStrange]

You didn't know John personally, so you don't know what he intended(you can't even be sure he meant the story to be a metaphor). I'm not wrong since Mark NEVER even said he was eating the passover before he was crucified(people just assume he was) the accounts of John and Mark don't contradict about when the passover took place.

I am sorry, I believe you to be wrong...we will have to agree to disagree. You are right, I didnt know John, thats why I said MY theory...doesnt make my ideas fact...however it doesnt make your ideas fact either...This is a debate that has gone on for decades and will continue to do so.

 

[Vadergirl123]

I am sorry, I believe you to be wrong...we will have to agree to disagree.

That's fine I told you that Mark never says they were eating the passover, but if you want to believe they were(even though the book never said that) then go ahead.

 

[BobbyisStrange]

That's fine I told you that Mark never says they were eating the passover, but if you want to believe they were(even though the book never said that) then go ahead.

again I believe Mark 14:12 - 25 states it very clear.

12 On the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread, when it was customary to sacrifice the Passover lamb, Jesus’ disciples asked him, “Where do you want us to go and make preparations for you to eat the Passover?”
13 So he sent two of his disciples, telling them, “Go into the city, and a man carrying a jar of water will meet you. Follow him. 14 Say to the owner of the house he enters, ‘The Teacher asks: Where is my guest room, where I may eat the Passover with my disciples?’ 15 He will show you a large room upstairs, furnished and ready. Make preparations for us there.”
16 The disciples left, went into the city and found things just as Jesus had told them. So they prepared the Passover.
17 When evening came, Jesus arrived with the Twelve. 18 While they were reclining at the table eating, he said, “Truly I tell you, one of you will betray me—one who is eating with me.”
19 They were saddened, and one by one they said to him, “Surely you don’t mean me?”
20 “It is one of the Twelve,” he replied, “one who dips bread into the bowl with me. 21 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.”
22 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take it; this is my body.”
23 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, and they all drank from it.
24 “This is my blood of the[a] covenant, which is poured out for many,” he said to them. 25 “Truly I tell you, I will not drink again from the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”

So Jesus tells them to go to the place where they can eat Passover together...they prepared the Passover meal...and went to go eat...however they weren’t eating the Passover meal...quite a stretch.

 

[BobbyisStrange]

Also I am pretty sure, though I may be wrong, that the first day of the festival of unleavened bread is Passover...so they didn't eat Passover on Passover?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

You didn't know John personally, so you don't know what he intended ....

Nor do you. The best the any of us can do is draw informed inferences. The worst that any of us can do is construct ignorant excuses.

You claim the 'Last Supper' was not a seder. I'm waiting for your timeline.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Now John was also written much later than the synoptic gospels so some scholars think that it had time to be penned more theologically sound.

Much later? Interesting. That was not my understanding. Perhaps you could offer some suggestions on time and place of composition.?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

again I believe Mark 14:12 - 25 states it very clear.

12 On the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread, when it was customary to sacrifice the Passover lamb, Jesus’ disciples asked him, “Where do you want us to go and make preparations for you to eat the Passover?”

Even more to the point ...

12 On the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread​

Apparently Vadergirl123 believes that the "Last Supper" occurred sometime before this. Explaining this should prove interesing.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Vadergirl123?

 

[BobbyisStrange]

I would really like to see how she can say Jesus didn’t eat Passover. If we can’t discern that through words said in the passage I’m at a loss for words.
Point 1: It was the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread…The first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread is Passover
Point 2: Jesus told his disciples to find a place where they can eat the Passover together.
Point 3: They find the place and prepared the Passover meal.
Point 4: They ate the meal together.
So we are to believe that on Passover, Jesus and his disciples fixed a Passover meal…They sat down and ate a meal together…but since it doesn’t explicitly say Jesus and his disciples ate the Passover meal…it wasn’t the Passover meal…wow, I guess by using this logic, Jesus wasn’t really the son of God…you do realize Jesus never said I am the son of God, right?

 

[Vadergirl123]

I'm so sorry guys. I started a new thread and it's had a bunch of replies so I just started focusing on it more haha. However I'll try(emphasis on the try) to get some answers, post about a few more contradictions, and answer whatever questions there are later on today or at least by the end of the week. And Jayhawker I'm working on your timeline

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

And Jayhawker I'm working on your timeline

Great, but perhaps you could very briefly answer the following:

• was the Last Supper a seder, and, if not,
• was it before or after Passover?

Thanks again.

 

[Vadergirl123]

Great, but perhaps you could very briefly answer the following:

• was the Last Supper a seder, and, if not,
• was it before or after Passover?

Thanks again.

Without looking too much into it, my first response would be that it could possibly have been a seder, and yes it took place before the passover meal

 

[BobbyisStrange]

Without looking too much into it, my first response would be that it could possibly have been a seder, and yes it took place before the passover meal

Isnt The Seder meal eaten on the first night Passover? And I'm still wondering how you reconcile the fact that the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread is Passover.