"Begotten", what does it mean?

[Soapy]

I see through your posts. You’re trolling. You’re not interested in debate; you’re interested in playing with people.

This conversation is done.

So that’s how you try to get away with wrongful beliefs… Claim against the other person and run-away!

Typical…. Absolutely typical…. Why couldn’t you just admit you were wrong and accept the truth?

 

[sojourner]

So that’s how you try to get away with wrongful beliefs… Claim against the other person and run-away!

Typical…. Absolutely typical…. Why couldn’t you just admit you were wrong and accept the truth?

I see my assessment is correct. See above.

 

[Muffled]

..don't we all..

I believe you do not have the Spirit of God. I do believe you have a mind and your own spirit. So you ca talk to yourself if you like.

 

[Muffled]

Who is CS Lewis?

‘Begotten Not Created’… where is that quoted from in the scriptures? I’ve never seen that verse in any Bible.

Do all Christian’s not celebrate THE BIRTH of Jesus??? They call it CHRISTMAS….

So funny, you create a period of time to celebrate the creation and birth of Jesus Christ and then DENY the creation and birth of him.

Just as you celebrate the DEATH and RESURRECTION of Jesus Christ … and then DENY that Jesus died???… but agree that he was resurrected…!!

How strange Trinity is?

I believe C. S. Lewis was an atheist before converting to Christianity, As an intellectual he has written many books including the Chronicles of Narnia.

I believe the begotten not created comes from one of the creeds. It tells part of the story but not all of it. It is scripturally correct in a way but also misleading in a way.

I believe a birth without a begetting would be interesting but the focus is on the birth even though we celebrate the whole story at least at my church at Christmas.

I believe the ignoring of the creation aspect could be due to the misleading nature of the creed.

I believe you are incorrect. It is the Muslims who correctly deny that Jesus died. The record is clear that only the body of Jesus died.

I believe it is lot less strange than multiple god concepts.

 

[Soapy]

I believe C. S. Lewis was an atheist before converting to Christianity, As an intellectual he has written many books including the Chronicles of Narnia.

I believe the begotten not created comes from one of the creeds. It tells part of the story but not all of it. It is scripturally correct in a way but also misleading in a way.

I believe a birth without a begetting would be interesting but the focus is on the birth even though we celebrate the whole story at least at my church at Christmas.

I believe the ignoring of the creation aspect could be due to the misleading nature of the creed.

I believe you are incorrect. It is the Muslims who correctly deny that Jesus died. The record is clear that only the body of Jesus died.

I believe it is lot less strange than multiple god concepts.

What exactly is being celebrated at Xmas?

What exactly is celebrated (commemorated) by the wine and bread before God’s death?

what exactly is celebrated by the resurrection of God?

Is it the birth of Jesus’ body? The body that died on the cross?

What would be miraculous about God raising up a fully formed body from the grave that was only three days without the enlivening spirit in it? Doesn’t the scriptures say that God could raise up bodies (Flesh including an enlivening spirit within) from inanimate stones?

And what about Jesus telling Thomas that he (Jesus) was not a Spirit (presumably ‘not an Angel’) but a full on human Being… ‘Touch me and see that I am a human being just like you know me…’

The general theme of xmas by Trinitarians is that God was born (‘came in the flesh’). And later, ‘God died on the cross for our sins (properly: the inherited sin of Adam)’

You are now saying that it was just the body of God that was ‘born’ and the body of God that died - and the body of God that was raised up BY GOD?

And that it was the body of God that Thomas touched?

And the body of God that ascended up to Heaven to be seated next to God… even though God had been in Heaven all the time.

Moreover, God came down from Heaven as the Holy Spirit to be ever-present with mankind while God and Jesus (who is also God) remains in Heaven.

And the Holy Spirit (God) - limited in knowledge - will uphold itself by ‘taking from what is Jesus (God)’s to give to the apostles?

And God will EMPOWER Jesus (who is God) to rule for a thousand years - after which Jesus (God) returns the power and authority GIVEN (Loaned?) to him BY GOD, back to God ‘who gave it to him’!

As far as trinity is concerned: I’m confused?

 

[Bree]

Nope, you got the meaning of Begat.
You should go and search homogenis.
"pertaining to being the only one of its kind within a specific relationship" and "pertaining to being the only one of its kind or class, unique in kind".
From WIKI.
anyhow, it has more to do with a special relationship, uniquness etc.

there is begotten and then there is 'only-begotten'

Only-begotten would fill the definition of 'pertaining to being the only one of its kind within a specific relationship or kind or class'

Jesus is the only one in the bible referred to as Gods 'only-begotten' because he was directly produced or created by Jehovah. All other beings (angles/mankind/animals) were produced through Jesus christ when he was the 'master worker' and therefore nothing and no one else is called Gods only-begotten.

This makes Jesus the most special and unique personage in the universe next to God and explains why he is so special to God and with such a unique and special relationship.

 

[Soapy]

there is begotten and then there is 'only-begotten'

Only-begotten would fill the definition of 'pertaining to being the only one of its kind within a specific relationship or kind or class'

Jesus is the only one in the bible referred to as Gods 'only-begotten' because he was directly produced or created by Jehovah. All other beings (angles/mankind/animals) were produced through Jesus christ when he was the 'master worker' and therefore nothing and no one else is called Gods only-begotten.

This makes Jesus the most special and unique personage in the universe next to God and explains why he is so special to God and with such a unique and special relationship.

Wasn’t Adam a unique creation of God?

Wasn’t Adam directly created by God - in the image of God?

Adam was the first ‘Begotten’ of God… but Adam sinned - and died!

David was also ‘Begotten’ of God… but David sinned - and died!!

Jesus was ‘begotten’ of God… but did not sin - and lived!!!

So, yes, it is true that Jesus is the ONLY LIVING man who was ‘begotten’ of God.

Psalm 2 declares David as being ‘Begotten’ of God. It poetically states that God called David ‘My Son’… and David was evidently a man, a human Being. The psalm also shows David ‘Enthroned’ on the mount of God… in other words, the highest position achievable by a human Being. In such a position the Son of God is unassailable - which the verse also declares. And it is interesting that the very next chapter has David declaring his great faith in God keeping him safe against the many enemies who try to dethrone and kill him - not least his own son, Absalom!

The apostle, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit of God, repeats the same prophetic theme concerning Jesus Christ:

• ‘You are my Son, this day I have BECOME your Father’

There is the crucial wording: ‘Become’:

• ‘This day I have BEGOTTEN you’

Since Jesus remained sinless and no other man has ever since been ‘Begotten’ of God, YES!! Jesus remains THE ONLY BEGOTTEN of God.

 

[Muffled]

What exactly is being celebrated at Xmas?

What exactly is celebrated (commemorated) by the wine and bread before God’s death?

what exactly is celebrated by the resurrection of God?

Is it the birth of Jesus’ body? The body that died on the cross?

What would be miraculous about God raising up a fully formed body from the grave that was only three days without the enlivening spirit in it? Doesn’t the scriptures say that God could raise up bodies (Flesh including an enlivening spirit within) from inanimate stones?

And what about Jesus telling Thomas that he (Jesus) was not a Spirit (presumably ‘not an Angel’) but a full on human Being… ‘Touch me and see that I am a human being just like you know me…’

The general theme of xmas by Trinitarians is that God was born (‘came in the flesh’). And later, ‘God died on the cross for our sins (properly: the inherited sin of Adam)’

You are now saying that it was just the body of God that was ‘born’ and the body of God that died - and the body of God that was raised up BY GOD?

And that it was the body of God that Thomas touched?

And the body of God that ascended up to Heaven to be seated next to God… even though God had been in Heaven all the time.

Moreover, God came down from Heaven as the Holy Spirit to be ever-present with mankind while God and Jesus (who is also God) remains in Heaven.

And the Holy Spirit (God) - limited in knowledge - will uphold itself by ‘taking from what is Jesus (God)’s to give to the apostles?

And God will EMPOWER Jesus (who is God) to rule for a thousand years - after which Jesus (God) returns the power and authority GIVEN (Loaned?) to him BY GOD, back to God ‘who gave it to him’!

As far as trinity is concerned: I’m confused?

I believe God is not the author of confusion. I am not confused at all. I understand it perfectly. I believe if you are truly a Christian all this stubble will be burned up when He returns.

 

[Mark La Buda]

Jesus was the only thing-of all creation-that was created first directly by Almighty God. Therefore, Jesus is referred to as “first born.” All other aspects of creation such as the angelic sons (angels), planets, animals and humans and so forth were created through Jesus. Reference: Proverbs 8:22, 30; John 17:5, 24; Colossians 1:15-18; Revelation 3:14.

 

[Dogknox20]

Jesus was the only thing-of all creation-that was created first directly by Almighty God. Therefore, Jesus is referred to as “first born.” All other aspects of creation such as the angelic sons (angels), planets, animals and humans and so forth were created through Jesus. Reference: Proverbs 8:22, 30; John 17:5, 24; Colossians 1:15-18; Revelation 3:14.

.
Mark La Buda Good to meet you....Christians believe "Jesus is God"!
You are NOT Christians if you reject what Christians believe!
Christians are "Blessed"! You cannot be blessed because you reject what Christians have ALWAYS believe!
The Apostle Thomas is a "Christian"! Thomas believes Jesus is God!

John 20:28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Mark La Buda Christians believe the very same as Thomas they are "Blessed" they do not all live when Thomas did, they have not see as Thomas did!
"Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed as Thomas.” Clearly Christians are "Blessed" You are not!

Baptism ADDS us to the body of Jesus... We are RE-Born into the living forever body of Jesus! 3000........

Mark La Buda 3000 were ADDED to the the Body of Jesus the first day of Pentecost by Baptism! Jesus is the first all others are ADDED to him!
Acts 2:40
With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

 

[Soapy]

Jesus was the only thing-of all creation-that was created first directly by Almighty God. Therefore, Jesus is referred to as “first born.” All other aspects of creation such as the angelic sons (angels), planets, animals and humans and so forth were created through Jesus. Reference: Proverbs 8:22, 30; John 17:5, 24; Colossians 1:15-18; Revelation 3:14.

No.
‘First Born’ does mean ‘First from the womb of its creator’ but the word used is “Firstborn” (please note the difference!! It’s very important)

“Firstborn” means: Closest to the Father: The most beloved by the Father”

A Jewish son who is chronologically the first born of him IS ALSO the firstborn (definitions given).

Try listing them from the scriptures … start with ADAM…!

Bug see what happens. The first born sins…….!

The first born sins and is no longer the most beloved (Firstborn) of the Father.

What happens next is the crucial part: ANOTHER SON IS RAISED UP IN POSITION to replace the sinning son and becomes THE MOST BELOVED OF the FATHER….: The Firstborn of the Father:

• Cain : Seth
• Ismael* : Isaac
• Esau : Jacob
• Rueben : Joseph
• Eliab : David
• Saul (first king) : David
• Amnon : Solomon
• (First son by Bathsheba**) : Solomon
• ADAM : JESUS

(* Ishmael was highly loved by Abraham but he was born external to the covenant promise of God made to Abraham. Plus, Ishmael was encouraged to be abusive to Isaac by his slave mother)
(** The son was BORN from a sinful union between the pair)

Please check out other ‘Firstborn’ such ‘Ephraim’ and ‘Israel’

• “Then say to Pharaoh, ‘This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son, and I told you, “Let my son go, so he may worship me.” But you refused to let him go; so I will kill your firstborn son.’” (Exodus 4:22-23)

Im pretty sure you can see that ‘Firstborn’ means ‘Most loved’. God CHOSE the nation of Israel as his most loved nation out of all the nations on Earth…. Israel was by no means the ONLY nation on Earth but it was the nation that showed itself as worthy of the love of the true God.

 

[Soapy]

I believe God is not the author of confusion. I am not confused at all. I understand it perfectly. I believe if you are truly a Christian all this stubble will be burned up when He returns.

All the stubble will be burnt up when He returns whether you are Christian or not. That’s not the point. The definition given for being a Christian is so tainted by trinitarianism that the true ‘follower of Christ’ might as well create their own new name. … true Christianity is not trinity-based but no one can say that or tell the churches this truth.

 

[Dogknox20]

No.
‘First Born’ does mean ‘First from the womb of its creator’ but the word used is “Firstborn” (please note the difference!! It’s very important)

“Firstborn” means: Closest to the Father: The most beloved by the Father”

A Jewish son who is chronologically the first born of him IS ALSO the firstborn (definitions given).

Try listing them from the scriptures … start with ADAM…!

Bug see what happens. The first born sins…….!

The first born sins and is no longer the most beloved (Firstborn) of the Father.

What happens next is the crucial part: ANOTHER SON IS RAISED UP IN POSITION to replace the sinning son and becomes THE MOST BELOVED OF the FATHER….: The Firstborn of the Father:

• Cain : Seth
• Ismael* : Isaac
• Esau : Jacob
• Rueben : Joseph
• Eliab : David
• Saul (first king) : David
• Amnon : Solomon
• (First son by Bathsheba**) : Solomon
• ADAM : JESUS

(* Ishmael was highly loved by Abraham but he was born external to the covenant promise of God made to Abraham. Plus, Ishmael was encouraged to be abusive to Isaac by his slave mother)
(** The son was BORN from a sinful union between the pair)

Please check out other ‘Firstborn’ such ‘Ephraim’ and ‘Israel’

• “Then say to Pharaoh, ‘This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son, and I told you, “Let my son go, so he may worship me.” But you refused to let him go; so I will kill your firstborn son.’” (Exodus 4:22-23)

Im pretty sure you can see that ‘Firstborn’ means ‘Most loved’. God CHOSE the nation of Israel as his most loved nation out of all the nations on Earth…. Israel was by no means the ONLY nation on Earth but it was the nation that showed itself as worthy of the love of the true God.

.
Soapy First Born means Only son of God... NOT many!
ONLY Born is ONLY Begotten!

Begotten means from the womb... God' Only Son was born of Mary = Begotten.
Jesus is 100% Man and 100% God!

All men have spirits! Jesus has 100% Spirit of God! Jesus is the Man God!

 

[Dogknox20]

All the stubble will be burnt up when He returns whether you are Christian or not. That’s not the point. The definition given for being a Christian is so tainted by trinitarianism that the true ‘follower of Christ’ might as well create their own new name. … true Christianity is not trinity-based but no one can say that or tell the churches this truth.

Christians have always believed Jesus is God! Christians are BLESSED because they believe Jesus is God! Christians all believe what Thomas; The Christian believes!

28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Soapy You are NOT Christian you reject what Christians believe! ARIUS....

Soapy Arius WAS a Christians until Christians rejected him as a False Teacher! This Scripture Prophesy (below) holds true!
Arius was AMONG Christians... Christians were NOT Among Arius this prophesy can only work in the one direction..
2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.

Arius rejected "The Way Of Truth" for a lie! Satan also rejects Christians; Arius was doing the work of the Anti-Christ; Satan is Anti-Christian! Satan does NOT want man to worship Jesus because Jesus is God: Arius and all who reject Jesus is a child of Satan!

 

[MonkeyFire]

Perfect faith is begotten like a Holy Ghost.

 

[rational experiences]

Did God own immaculate body clear space gas?

No. God owned cold stone mass. Volcano hell released gas spirit.

Immaculate was taught Inheritor spirit mother womb only.

Holy mother was immaculate.

No god term.

Theme rock was created formed by space womb voiding vacuum too.

Sun caused immaculate mass to time shift back into burning.

Cloud mass also still belonged to immaculate.

So inheritor.
Men human's suddenly exist are conscious biology the human.

Say adult awareness human around age 20.

The with God human healthy supported life biology with cold substances everywhere.

Said the term God above as a human naming all types of varied states existing in one moment his life.

Now did you own separateness?

No.

Life was supported by cold only.

As hot gas was cooled.

As a human father was only a father by human conditions. A man. An adult. Human sex.

So human men cannot use term a father unless they are born a baby are the human mans son. By self reference human.

No sin anywhere else.

Becomes the adult gets fallen star irradiated.

Reason out of space earths attack killed of dinosaurs still heated ice. Ice naturally melted. Yet ice was formed in burning gas space voiding incident.

Instant. Dinosaurs eating proof.

Earths heavens proved it was still hot from old attack.

Ice melt balances. Ice reborn balances

Earths bio saviour. Taught. Ice. Newly born.

Now when you use life's biology terms newly born human baby. Displaced word use is false preachers as human idealism.

Told. Exact warned human advice about human consciousness ...
.. coercing.

No maths no science.

A human has to think for maths as science and human apply calculus build machines apply earth reactions.

Earth did not own heavens gases. It was rock substance only.

Is the teaching.

You used conscious heaven advice gas spirit converted earth mass into heavens gases yourselves.

So you taught I caused AI event. Sacrificed my life.

Yet the teaching said the nature garden life got evicted animal life sacrificed human sacrificed baby life sacrificed sin holes opened in earth.

Ignored. As you became self science possessed. As your life human son.was sacrificed. Image appeared in clouds.

So you detailed how why human man as a human sin gained a human life image in the clouds begotten.

You became and transported your living life portion to be with a God act as in clouds.

Was your human biological preaching man baby.

Why human babies image life lost no longer living is seen in clouds also. Why we mourn the heavens memory of causes.

As it's sadder to lose the life of a baby than an adult who got to experience life.

Was the human teaching.

As human life has experienced a huge human spiritual self preaching by many humans over a very long human earth life...it's not special.

Humans think a spiritual human is special. Yet once we all were just as spiritual and loving. So idolising humans is wrong. Taught.

No man is God.

And not believing in Jesus does not make you evil. Ignoring that it occurred and documented is lying.

 

[Soapy]

.
Soapy First Born means Only son of God... NOT many!
ONLY Born is ONLY Begotten!

Begotten means from the womb... God' Only Son was born of Mary = Begotten.
Jesus is 100% Man and 100% God!

All men have spirits! Jesus has 100% Spirit of God! Jesus is the Man God!

Are we talking the same scriptural language, here?

Where are you getting your definitions from… it certainly isn’t from Jewish language, tradition, or sense!

Are you really saying that there is only ever one son in a family?

You have screwed the two definition (‘First Born’ and ‘Firstborn’) into one illicit miscomposition.

‘First Born’… there can be only one first born… because this is chronological - in time - the first.

‘Firstborn’… the most loved (or beloved) of the Father, the creator, the life giver of the child.

Abraham is a good example in that Ishmael was his FIRST BORN son. Ishmael was most beloved by Abraham…. But Ismael was not a sanctified son according to the promise given to Abraham by God.

So, initially, yes, Ishmael was both First Born and Firstborn, the situation did not remain so.

God’s promise to Abraham remained until it was fulfilled: Abraham gained a son by the covenant promise: Isaac.

Because of boasting by the slave woman mother of Ishmael, Isaac was teased and had wrong done to him by Ishmael. God’s promise called for action to remove this awful situation, Ismael and his mother were sent away.

Abraham’s first loved child (first born) was now ISAAC!!

So, although Isaac was not BORN FIRST, he BECAME the FIRSTBORN of his Father.

And, according to the covenant promise, and DESPITE Abraham going on to have other children by another wife, Isaac REMAINED the ONLY SON (of the covenant) to Abraham.

Therefore, it is not a matter of how many sons a Father has in regard to the definitions, but rather, the LOVE (the first love) that is given to THE ONE.

Joseph was by no means the first son of Jacob, yet he BECAME the FIRST LOVE - so much so that the other brothers were driven to try to kill Joseph out of jealousy.

Saul was the FIRST king of Israel - and everyone respectful first love is to their king. But he sinned - and ANOTHER was made FIRST LOVE - and everyone’s respectful first love is to their king!

However, I suspect your post was merely to cause controversy rather than any real misunderstanding.

Sad!

 

[Bree]

.
Mark La Buda Good to meet you....Christians believe "Jesus is God"!
You are NOT Christians if you reject what Christians believe!
Christians are "Blessed"! You cannot be blessed because you reject what Christians have ALWAYS believe!
The Apostle Thomas is a "Christian"! Thomas believes Jesus is God!

John 20:28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Mark La Buda Christians believe the very same as Thomas they are "Blessed" they do not all live when Thomas did, they have not see as Thomas did!
"Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed as Thomas.” Clearly Christians are "Blessed" You are not!

Baptism ADDS us to the body of Jesus... We are RE-Born into the living forever body of Jesus! 3000........

Mark La Buda 3000 were ADDED to the the Body of Jesus the first day of Pentecost by Baptism! Jesus is the first all others are ADDED to him!
Acts 2:40
With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

.Jesus didnt believe he was God.

He said he was Gods Son over and over again.

I believe Jesus knew who he was.

 

[Soapy]

.Jesus didnt believe he was God.

He said he was Gods Son over and over again.

I believe Jesus knew who he was.

True.

Jesus fervently denied claiming to be God.

In fact, it is farcical to have a situation of Being ‘EQUAL TO’ meaning ‘IS’!!

Ask for an example of something be equal to something else AND being that something else … you won’t get an answer - yet it is a central tenet of the false ideology driven into the worlds most important religion.

It must be wondered at exactly what is wrong with the linguistics mindset of Trinitarians.

Another case in point is where Thomas is admonished by Jesus: ‘Only because you have seen and touched me you have believed’… ‘Blessed are they they have not seen and touched and yet will believe!’ (Slight paraphrase - the verse is well known!)

How on Earth or in heaven do they then turn round and say that Jesus was ‘BLESSING THOMAS’?! (Yes, I know the answer… just stating the absurdity!!)

 

[Dogknox20]

.Jesus didnt believe he was God.

He said he was Gods Son over and over again.

I believe Jesus knew who he was.

.
Bree I hope all is well...
Jesus never stopped anyone from Worshiping him! They worshiped Jesus throughout his life, he told Satan worship is ONLY for God! Jesus should have stopped them worshipping him if he knew he was not God!
Jesus is God...
Bree Christians have always believed Jesus is God! Christians are BLESSED because they believe Jesus is God! Christians all believe what Thomas; The Christian believes!

28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Bree Do you see Jesus correcting Thomas in his error?... NO you don't!
Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed. as you Thomas!” “My Lord and my God!”
Bree Again: Jesus KNOWS beyond all doubt "Worship is ONLY for God!"
You are NOT Christians because you reject what Christians have always believed!

Arius WAS a Christians until he rejected Jesus is God.. Christians rejected Arius as a False Teacher!
Arius was placed "OUTSIDE"!
Bree If you are OUTSIDE you cannot be Inside at the same time! CHRISTIANS.....

Bree Christians have always used the Cross as their symbol because it was by the cross Jesus destroyed death! Satan hates the Cross; he is Anti-Christian, he would never ever allow his followers (his Children) from using the Cross on any buildings of his and he would take the cross out of any scriptures his children use!