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"Begotten", what does it mean?

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
Perfect faith is begotten like a Holy Ghost.
be·get
[bəˈɡet]
VERB
begotten (past participle)
  1. (typically of a man, sometimes of a man and a woman) bring (a child) into existence by the process of reproduction:
    "they hoped that the King might beget an heir by his new queen"
    synonyms:
    father · sire · engender · generate · spawn · create · give life to · bring into being · bring into the world · have · procreate · reproduce · breed
  2. give rise to; bring about:
    "success begets further success"
    synonyms:
    cause · give rise to · lead to · result in · bring about · create · produce ·
  3. ...........................................................
Perfect Faith in the resurrection is faith in "Life eternally!"
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
.
The Roman historian Tacitus records that the city of Rome had a specific place for carrying out executions, situated outside the Esquiline Gate,[19] and had a specific area reserved for the execution of slaves by crucifixion.[20] Upright posts would presumably be fixed permanently in that place, and the crossbeam, with the condemned person perhaps already nailed to it, would then be attached to the post.
..
Ancient historians Josephus and Appian refer to the crucifixion of thousands of Jews by the Romans, there is only a single archaeological discovery of a crucified body of a Jew dating back to the Roman Empire around the time of Jesus.
..
Constantine the Great, the first Christian emperor, abolished crucifixion in the Roman Empire in 337 out of veneration for Jesus Christ, its most famous victim..
..
According to Roman law, if a slave killed his or her master, all of the master's slaves would be crucified as punishment.[99] Both men and women were crucified.[100][101][98] Tacitus writes in his Annals that when Lucius Pedanius Secundus was murdered by a slave, some in the Senate tried to prevent the mass crucifixion of four hundred of his slaves[99] because there were so many women and children, but in the end tradition prevailed and they were all executed
..Academic Consensus on Christ’s Crucifixion
It is safe to say that it is universally accepted by historians that Christ died by crucifixion. According to scholar James Dunn, the crucifixion is one of “two facts in the life of Jesus command almost universal assent” and that it “rank so high on the ‘almost impossible to doubt or deny’ scale of historical facts” (1). Likewise, Bart Ehrman says that “The crucifixion of Jesus by the Romans is one of the most secure facts we have about his life” (2). Scholar Luke Timothy Johnson agrees saying that “The support for the mode of his death, its agents, and perhaps its coagents, is overwhelming: Jesus faced a trial before his death, was condemned and executed by crucifixion” (3). Historian Gerd Ludemann finds that “Jesus’ death as a consequence of crucifixion is indisputable” (4). John Dominic Crossan says he takes it “absolutely for granted that Jesus was crucified under Pontius Pilate” (5). Jewish scholar Paula Frederickson writes that “the crucifixion is the single strongest fact we have about Jesus” (6). The Jesus Seminar, which for many represents scholars of a more skeptical bent, finds the crucifixion to be “one indisputable fact” from Christ’s ministry (7). The late New Testament scholar Marcus Borg put the crucifixion as a historical certainty akin to other commonly accepted events from ancient history,

Three early church fathers attest to the crucifixion. Ignatius (35-108 CE) in Trallians, Smyrneans and Barnabas, Saint Clement of Rome (35-99 CE) in 1 Clement (7, 12, 21, 49) and by Justin Martyr (100-165 CE) in The First Apology (32, 35, 50) and Dialogue with Trypho (47, 108). All three were convinced Christ met his end on the cross and they did not receive their material from the New Testament (11). They also probably had close ties to some of the original disciples of Christ which bolsters their testimo“ome judgments are so probable as to be certain; for example, Jesus really existed, and he really was crucified, just as Julius Caesar really existed and was assassinated. …. We can in fact know as much about Jesus as we can about any figure in the ancient world” (8).
Independent/Multiple Attestation

According to theologian and exegete William Lane Craig, to have just two independent sources confirming an event of history is notable for “Historians consider themselves to have hit historical pay dirt when they have two independent accounts of the same event” (9). The general idea is the more sources that are independent the better it is: an event of history to have five independent sources attesting to it has a greater probability of having occurred than an event with just two or three sources independently attesting to it. As a criterion, this in no way claims that an event recorded in a single source is necessarily unreliable or must be rejected. In fact, it could well be the case that an event mentioned in the single source is a true event of history.

How does Christ’s crucifixion stand in light of multiple and independent attestation? We have the following:

It is attested to in the New Testament, including all four canonical gospels Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John, by the Apostle Paul, Hebrews, and 1 Peter. This is more than sufficient, but there is more.


 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
.Jesus didnt believe he was God.

He said he was Gods Son over and over again.

I believe Jesus knew who he was.
Early sources behind our gospels also attest to the crucifixion, such as the pre-Markan passion narrative in Mark’s gospel and hypothetical Q. New Testament scholar Eric Rowe explains that “Q and pre-Mark both surely do attest to the crucifixion of Jesus…. Mark is passing on pre-existing tradition and that the crucifixion is not the author’s own addition to the story” (12). According to Rowe, to show that Matthew and Luke attest to Christ’s crucifixion independent of Mark is difficult because they almost certainly derived their crucifixion narrative from Mark and/or Q.

Beyond the early Christian writings, perhaps the two most important extra-biblical references come from the historians Josephus Flavius (37-100 CE) and Cornelius Tacitus (56-120 CE). Flavius (writing around 94 CE) refers to the crucifixion, “And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross” (13). It is true that of Flavius’ two passages that refer to Christ, this one was subject to a Christian scribe’s interpolation. However, many scholars believe that the interpolation was done over a historical core where Flavius did, by his own hand, refer to Christ’s crucifixion and trial. Concerning the pre-interpolation passage scholar James Dunn writes that “few have doubted that it came from Josephus’ pen” (14).

Cornelius Tacitus, writing around 116 CE, tells us that Christ “suffered the extreme penalty” of crucifixion under “Pontius Pilate” (15). According to Paul Eddy and Gregory Boyd, that Tacitus provides attestation to Christ’s crucifixion is now “firmly established” (16). It is widely held that Tacitus provides independent attestation to Christ’s crucifixion (17).

Mara Serapion (50-? CE) is a further ancient writer of interest who refers to the crucifixion of the “wise king.” Although this reference is debated, many scholars see the wise king as a reference to Christ, although, unfortunately, it does not provide a direct reference. New Testament scholar Robert Van Voorst sees little doubt that the reference to the execution of the “king of the Jews” refers to Christ’s death on the cross (18), while Bruce Chilton and Craig Evans view the reference as relating to the inscription on the cross of Christ’s crucifixion, as recorded in the Gospel of Mark (15:26) (19). Historians have dated this letter somewhere between 73 CE and 200 CE which means it could be early or late.

The crucifixion receives further attestation by many other later writers over the following centuries. There is Lucian’s (120-190 CE) satirical piece called The Passing of Peregrinus that mocks Christian faith and calls Christ a “crucified sophistand the Babylonian Talmud says that Christ “was hanged on the eve of the Passover.” These sources, and others we have not mentioned, although important historically for historians examining the contexts in which they were authored, don’t provide much historical value in terms of early, independent attestation to Christ’s crucifixion. What value they do have, however, is that they assume a constant tradition of Christ’s crucifixion. At no point do they doubt that there was such a figure as Jesus Christ who was crucified. That these sources are hostile to the Christian movement, often deriding it as a disease and superstition, yet accept these basic Christian claims is informative, especially given the rhetorical ammunition it would have given them had they discovered the crucifixion was merely a fabrication.

To conclude then, what are the independent sources attesting to the crucifixion of Christ? The historian has the following: Pre-Mark, Q, John, Paul, Hebrews, 1 Peter, Clement, Ignatius, Martyr, Josephus Flavius, and Cornelius Tacitus. This totals to eleven independent sources, excluding the later sources. If one takes two independent sources as a good rule for determining historical confidence then one seems on very strong grounds to accept the crucifixion as a genuine historical fact.
Early attestation
Christ’s crucifixion is an event that is not only independently attested in various sources but is also attested within early sources. The idea here is that the earlier the source is to the events it describes the more value it has. This can be for several reasons, such as a decreased possibility of legend infiltrating a text, less distortion, the events being fresher in the memories of witnesses and authors, and so on. A source dating to forty years of an event would inspire more confidence than a source that dates to three centuries of the event.
Several early sources attest to the crucifixion. The pre-Markan passion narrative is one such source that Rudolf Pesch dates no later than 37 CE, just seven years after Christ’s death,
Criterion of Embarrassment
Christ’s crucifixion satisfies what historians refer to as the criterion of embarrassment. The idea here is that it is very unlikely that an author, who we know was a follower of Christ, would make up an event that was of embarrassment to themselves, their leader, and/or to their movement. How does this criterion apply to Christ’s crucifixion?
This is the view that Christ’s earliest followers, who were raised and located in a first-century Jewish-Palestinian context, would have held to of crucifixion. They believed that if one was crucified it is because he was cursed by the God of Israel. The significance lies in the fact that no person from this background would have taught others, especially their fellow Jews, that their leader, whom they proclaimed to be God himself, had been crucified unless it really happened. To invent a fabricated story of their leader’s crucifixion would have amplified the difficulties the earliest Christians would have experienced when attempting to spread their message. In other words, if the crucifixion was merely an invention of the gospel authors, the authors would have come up with a far compelling more fabrication that would preferably not result in their audiences scoffing at their claims. The crucifixion therefore only makes sense if Christ had really been crucified.

In fact, the difficulty that the crucifixion caused Christ’s followers is clear to see. The disciples, even while Christ was alive and active in his ministry, responded in confusion when Christ taught he would soon be delivered to be crucified (John 13:21-29, 13: 7, 19, and Luke 24:44-45). They were certainly not foreseeing their movement’s leader receiving a humiliating death deemed fit for the common criminal.

Paul here is plainly referring to the difficulty the earliest Christians would have experienced while trying to convince others of their leader’s teachings, despite this leader having been nailed to a cross like a failed messiah and common criminal. William Craig explains,
“Jewish Messianic expectations included no idea of a Davidic Messiah who, instead of throwing off Israel’s enemies and establishing David’s throne in Jerusalem, would be shamefully executed by them as a criminal. Jesus’ crucifixion was something the early church struggled to overcome, not something it invented. Jesus’ crucifixion is one datum upon which all historical scholars, even the most radical, agree” (24).

“The title “Son of Man” was Jesus’ favorite way to describe himself; it refers to a human being, much the same as the phrase “son of Mike” would refer to a child of Mike. However, we aren’t dealing with a matter of either human or transcendent as the title implies. For in Daniel 7, the Son of Man rides the clouds. In the Hebrew Scriptures riding the clouds is something only God does—or something foreign gods are described as doing (Ex. 14:20; 34:5; Num. 10:34; Ps. 104:3; Isa. 19:1). In other words, this human figure is unique in his possession of characteristics that reflect the transcendent divine. Jesus as the Anointed One, the Christ, represents both God and man” (26).

That Christ referred to himself using this title upset his opponents and it is why during a trial the high priest “tore his clothes and declared” him to have committed blasphemy deserving of death (Mark 14).

The crucifixion coheres with other data from the gospels. For example, Christ came under fire when his disciples were accused of violating the Sabbath (Mark 2:23-28; Matt. 12:1-21; Luke 6:1-5). He also allegedly violated the Sabbath because of miraculously healing a person (Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:6-11; Matt. 12:9-14), for forgiving sin when such a role is reserved only for God (Matt. 9:1-8), for purportedly using demonic power (Matt. 12:22-37), and for claiming that he would build the temple up in three days after tearing it down (Matt. 27:40; John 2:19). All these factors contributed to the Jewish authorities dragging Christ before Pilate.
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
.Jesus didnt believe he was God.

He said he was Gods Son over and over again.

I believe Jesus knew who he was.

Baptism washes away sins..
Mark 1:4
And so John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Luke 3:3
He went into all the country around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Bree to be saved by The Blood Of Jesus.. You MUST DRINK IT!
27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.

Satan entered Judas when he ate the bread.. Judas did NOT discern the body of Christ he eat judgment on himself.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
.
Bree I hope all is well...
Jesus never stopped anyone from Worshiping him! They worshiped Jesus throughout his life, he told Satan worship is ONLY for God! Jesus should have stopped them worshipping him if he knew he was not God!
Jesus is God...
Bree Christians have always believed Jesus is God! Christians are BLESSED because they believe Jesus is God! Christians all believe what Thomas; The Christian believes!

28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed
.”

Bree Do you see Jesus correcting Thomas in his error?... NO you don't!
Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed. as you Thomas!” My Lord and my God!
Bree Again: Jesus KNOWS beyond all doubt "Worship is ONLY for God!"
You are NOT Christians because you reject what Christians have always believed!

Arius WAS a Christians until he rejected Jesus is God.. Christians rejected Arius as a False Teacher!
Arius was placed "OUTSIDE"!
Bree If you are OUTSIDE you cannot be Inside at the same time! CHRISTIANS.....

Bree
Christians have always used the Cross as their symbol because it was by the cross Jesus destroyed death! Satan hates the Cross; he is Anti-Christian, he would never ever allow his followers (his Children) from using the Cross on any buildings of his and he would take the cross out of any scriptures his children use!
What did Jesus say to Thomas to prove he was not a spirit?

And Jesus did not bless Thomas. He told Thomas that those who are blessed are those who did not see him nor touch him but yet will believe that he, Jesus, rose from the dead!

Thomas had to have it proved to him - that’s not worth a blessing!

Answering my question to you: Jesus told Thomas that he, Jesus, was NOT A SPIRIT….

Do you believe that God is Spirit?
 

MonkeyFire

Well-Known Member
be·get
[bəˈɡet]
VERB
begotten (past participle)
  1. (typically of a man, sometimes of a man and a woman) bring (a child) into existence by the process of reproduction:
    "they hoped that the King might beget an heir by his new queen"
    synonyms:
    father · sire · engender · generate · spawn · create · give life to · bring into being · bring into the world · have · procreate · reproduce · breed
  2. give rise to; bring about:
    "success begets further success"
    synonyms:
    cause · give rise to · lead to · result in · bring about · create · produce ·
  3. ...........................................................
Perfect Faith in the resurrection is faith in "Life eternally!"

Faith is eternal life.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
If you are a human by species. Man's science being a god status was given to God by men.

Said a baby returned was to mans life when the asteroid was wandering. Had stopped hitting earth as old falling stars.

Human man's lost baby sacrificed out of DNA returned. DNA genesis had healed.

So correlating to the exact teaching ice newly born is inferred a baby also. Stable state only allows healthy not sacrificed human DNA. As we had the attack stopped life was saved but are still sick dying early age death.

Sin sink hole boring had been overcome the teaching. Stopped.

Holy C value 100 year life span.

As men of science told the story.

No ice and animal and human DNA goes away life de evolves. Why cattle were seen no organs no tongues in phenomena attack as rich men quote knowing in psyche ....humans are like cattle.

As it's all about gods satanisms only. How you became the rich man beginning as crimes against humanity brothers.

Men of old science said ARK was baboon symbolism warnings given as KRA.

So you would realise science of man nuclear had caused it. Caused from the presence dusts. Mutated burnt nuclear harmed bio life. In nature. Eviction.

So as dust is dust and you scientist remove dust it ended as sin K holes.

K plus RA Eye Ark human egotism....egyptian and Mayan nuclear event.

As floods forced the burning ark in heavens attack to stop on Ararat it stopped. It landed hit.

No science for a long time. New science.

Next cause was huge earth rendering four day event.

You're waiting for the new event yourselves everyday.

As you try to force a cloud tube to move down and sit over your new machine is why chunks of clouds are seen falling out as you're trying to attach it by machine causes.

Thinking self not sane. Asking in AI can I use this design as a weapon. Heard man of science recorded voices.

As I hear the gods voice say so as it's Satan angels as the gods.

Father's human records not clouds. Never were clouds. He's not satan science.

You brother a liar got star brain irradiated. Gases burning is what you did to everyone else. As science isn't sun mass.

It's earths mass. Even gases you say heavens own you convert out of earths mass.

You are in fact quantified by human family an evil liar.

As Satan of God taught you science.

God of God is fixed cold.
 

Bree

Active Member
.
Bree I hope all is well...
Jesus never stopped anyone from Worshiping him! They worshiped Jesus throughout his life, he told Satan worship is ONLY for God! Jesus should have stopped them worshipping him if he knew he was not God!
Jesus is God...
Bree Christians have always believed Jesus is God! Christians are BLESSED because they believe Jesus is God! Christians all believe what Thomas; The Christian believes!

28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed
.”

Bree Do you see Jesus correcting Thomas in his error?... NO you don't!
Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed. as you Thomas!” My Lord and my God!
Bree Again: Jesus KNOWS beyond all doubt "Worship is ONLY for God!"
You are NOT Christians because you reject what Christians have always believed!

Arius WAS a Christians until he rejected Jesus is God.. Christians rejected Arius as a False Teacher!
Arius was placed "OUTSIDE"!
Bree If you are OUTSIDE you cannot be Inside at the same time! CHRISTIANS.....

Bree
Christians have always used the Cross as their symbol because it was by the cross Jesus destroyed death! Satan hates the Cross; he is Anti-Christian, he would never ever allow his followers (his Children) from using the Cross on any buildings of his and he would take the cross out of any scriptures his children use!

I think the words of thomas has been taken out of context. Even John who wrote what Thomas said did not imply that Thomas was claiming that Jesus was God or that Thomas actually called him God.

Jesus did not need to correct Thomas if Thomas was not refering to Jesus as God.

Also the 'cross' was not what Jesus was executed on. He was executed on a stake. An upright pole. This fact in itself shows that the catholic and mostly all christian denominations are being mislead by false teachings.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
.
Bree I hope all is well...
Jesus never stopped anyone from Worshiping him! They worshiped Jesus throughout his life, he told Satan worship is ONLY for God! Jesus should have stopped them worshipping him if he knew he was not God!
Jesus is God...
Bree Christians have always believed Jesus is God! Christians are BLESSED because they believe Jesus is God! Christians all believe what Thomas; The Christian believes!

28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed
.”

Bree Do you see Jesus correcting Thomas in his error?... NO you don't!
Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed. as you Thomas!” My Lord and my God!
Bree Again: Jesus KNOWS beyond all doubt "Worship is ONLY for God!"
You are NOT Christians because you reject what Christians have always believed!

Arius WAS a Christians until he rejected Jesus is God.. Christians rejected Arius as a False Teacher!
Arius was placed "OUTSIDE"!
Bree If you are OUTSIDE you cannot be Inside at the same time! CHRISTIANS.....

Bree
Christians have always used the Cross as their symbol because it was by the cross Jesus destroyed death! Satan hates the Cross; he is Anti-Christian, he would never ever allow his followers (his Children) from using the Cross on any buildings of his and he would take the cross out of any scriptures his children use!
What better way to mislead people than to use the physical symbol of jesus’ death to draw the congregation and then tells them fallacies… perfect!!
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
I see my assessment is correct. See above.
Your assessment? You mean ‘the assessment’!

Yes, the assessment that you hit and run is true!

Answer the questions put to you - if you do so honestly and with integrity as to the truth of scriptures then you may claim something… until then, May it be possible for you to accept your place as a distraction of true Christianity!
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
What did Jesus say to Thomas to prove he was not a spirit?

And Jesus did not bless Thomas. He told Thomas that those who are blessed are those who did not see him nor touch him but yet will believe that he, Jesus, rose from the dead!

Thomas had to have it proved to him - that’s not worth a blessing!

Answering my question to you: Jesus told Thomas that he, Jesus, was NOT A SPIRIT….

Do you believe that God is Spirit?

Soapy Nope....You are wrong... "My Lord and My GOD".. Blessed are those who believe the same as you Thomas and have not seen me!
Thomas believes Jesus is GOD! Thomas is a Christian.. Christians believe Jesus is "Lord & God"!

God is Spirit.... Jesus is 100% God and 100% Flesh! Jesus has 100% of God' spirit inside!

Soapy You don't have spirit inside of you, then you die! Jesus cannot die because he has 100% of Gods' spirit Jesus is the Man God!
Thomas worshiped Jesus: Jesus does NOT SAY.. Don't worship me because I am NOT God!! "My Lord and my GOD!"
Jesus knows beyond all doubt.. Worship is ONLY for God!
Matthew 4:10
Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’”

Christians worship Jesus... "My Lord and my GOD!"
I am a Christian you are NOT!
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
Faith is eternal life.
.
MonkeyFire Faith in Jesus is eternal life!
49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.


MonkeyFire Baptism ADDS us to the risen body of Jesus eating his flesh "KEEPS us in his Body"!
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
I think the words of thomas has been taken out of context. Even John who wrote what Thomas said did not imply that Thomas was claiming that Jesus was God or that Thomas actually called him God.

Jesus did not need to correct Thomas if Thomas was not refering to Jesus as God.

Also the 'cross' was not what Jesus was executed on. He was executed on a stake. An upright pole. This fact in itself shows that the catholic and mostly all christian denominations are being mislead by false teachings.
.
Christians worship Jesus!
Bree
They worship Jesus! Jesus NEVER corrects them, Jesus NEVER stop them from worshiping him!.. Worship is ONLY for God!

Matthew 14:33

Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.Jesus does NOT SAY.. "Don't worship me"!

Bree Jesus NEVER corrects them; Jesus never tells them.. Don't worship me because worship is ONLY for God!
Matthew 4:10
Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’”

Matthew 28:9
Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.
Bree "WORSHIP IS ONLY FOR GOD!"

Matthew 28:17
When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
Bree "WORSHIP IS ONLY FOR GOD!" Jesus doe NOT stop the worship of himself!...

Luke 24:51 While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven. 52 Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy.
Bree "WORSHIP IS ONLY FOR GOD!"

Thomas is a Christian he worships Jesus all the Apostles are Christians.. Christians worship Jesus!
Arius WAS a Christians he was AMONG Christians! Christians rejected Arius as a False Teacher because he did not believe what Christians believe! Arius taught Jesus was NOT God and then he was rejected by Christians!
Arius was IN the WAY OF TRUTH until he was removed as a Heretic!

2 Peter 2:1But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.

Bree It is JUST this simple...Christians worship Jesus! You do NOT you are like Arius!
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
Listen to yourself..
Do you think that G-d cares who is a Christian and who is not?

No. G-d cares about our sincerity, and not which "church dogma" you follow.
.
muhammad_isa if what you say is how you live, then why are you NOT Christian!?

The Christian God is our Father! We are his Children.. God died for us to give us eternal life! God loves us!
Matthew 5:2 He said:
3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

muhammad_isa Your God is your master you are god' servant! Your god does NOT love you.. You have a different god then the Christian!
John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

John 20:28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed
.”

The Christian is blessed!
muhammad_isa Christians believe Jesus is God.. God died in our place and because he did; I will live forever in his kingdom!
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
What better way to mislead people than to use the physical symbol of jesus’ death to draw the congregation and then tells them fallacies… perfect!!
.
Soapy Christians believe Jesus is God! If reject what Christians believe then you are NOT Christian! The Apostles are all Christians except Judas!

The Christian symbol IS the CROSS! It was ON the Cross that Jesus destroyed Death Satan hates the Cross; he would never allow his Children to use this symbol because it is a Christian Symbol!
Soapy Satan is Anti-Christ Satan is Anti-Christian! You are doing the work of your father!
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Soapy Nope....You are wrong... "My Lord and My GOD".. Blessed are those who believe the same as you Thomas and have not seen me!
Thomas believes Jesus is GOD! Thomas is a Christian.. Christians believe Jesus is "Lord & God"!

God is Spirit.... Jesus is 100% God and 100% Flesh! Jesus has 100% of God' spirit inside!

Soapy You don't have spirit inside of you, then you die! Jesus cannot die because he has 100% of Gods' spirit Jesus is the Man God!
Thomas worshiped Jesus: Jesus does NOT SAY.. Don't worship me because I am NOT God!! "My Lord and my GOD!"
Jesus knows beyond all doubt.. Worship is ONLY for God!
Matthew 4:10
Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’”

Christians worship Jesus... "My Lord and my GOD!"
I am a Christian you are NOT!
You mean to say that Jesus blessed Thomas because thomas had to see and touch the risen Jesus before he would believe:
  • “… So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!” But he [Thomas] said to them, “UNLESS I SEE the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.” (John 20:25)
I think those who are blessed are the one who believe WITHOUT having seen and touched… Thos is FAITH.

What do you say?

We have not yet seen Jesus return but we have FAITH that he will. This is a blessing to those who believe it.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Dogknox said:
  • “God is our Father and we are his children’
Dogknox also says:
  • “Jesus is God”
If the Father is God and Jesus is God then Jesus is the Father… is that right?

But Jesus was:
  • Was given life by the Father;
  • Was taught by the Father;
  • Was set apart from the norm of humanity (sanctified - anointed - consecrated!!) by the Father;
  • Was raised from the dead by the Father;
  • Was set down at the right hand of the Father;
  • Crowned in glory by the Father;
  • Made to reign the fathers kingdom for a thousand years by the Father
  • Given the power to judge man and angels by the Father;
  • Granted a throne (throne of a human ancestor) in his own kingdom by the Father
And all the time, is Dogknox therefore saying that Jesus is the Father!!!?
 
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Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
You mean to say that Jesus blessed Thomas because thomas had to see and touch the risen Jesus before he would believe:
  • “… So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!” But he [Thomas] said to them, “UNLESS I SEE the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.” (John 20:25)
I think those who are blessed are the one who believe WITHOUT having seen and touched… Thos is FAITH.

What do you say?

We have not yet seen Jesus return but we have FAITH that he will. This is a blessing to those who believe it.

Soapy Christians believe Jesus is God!
Thomas an Apostle: Thomas a Christ follower believes; Jesus is God.. "My lord and My GOD"!
I mean to say that; Jesus will bless Christians, all those coming AFTER Thomas because "Christians believe the same as Thomas without having to see as Thomas did"!
Because Thomas had to see and touch the risen Jesus before he would believe: Christians today do NOT! Christians believe Jesus is God without having to touch Jesus!

Jesus is Immanuel; God is with us!
Jesus is creator of ALL things!

Jesus commands Angels!
Jesus is "The Alpha and Omega"!
Revelation 1:8
I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.

Revelation 22:12
“Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.
13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.
15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.


20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.”
Amen. Come, Lord Jesus
.

The Anti-Christian hates the Cross... He would never allow his children to use the cross... The Cross is a Christian symbol!
 
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