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Featured "Begotten", what does it mean?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by SA Huguenot, Jan 25, 2022.

  1. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    I was asked by a fellow member to explain the word "Begotten" about Jesus in the Bible, because somehow it is a very bad word?

    Will, I promised I will discuss this word on another thread, and here it is.

    The Christian knows that Jesus is the only Begotten Son of God, and accepts this as fact, but they never question the meaning of how and what this means.

    But we can not discuss this concept if we do not have the verses about Jesus being begotten and being the Son of God.
    Here are a few.

    Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
    Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
    Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
    Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
    Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
    Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
    Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
    Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
    Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    1Jn 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
    1Jn 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
    Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

    OK, so lets see. The word monogenes means "only" (mono) "kind" (genes) (also child)
    It is very close to modern words where we know Mono, as one such as "Monotheism" and genes such as genes in DNA.
    one, only kind child.

    We find it in the OT also:
    In Hebrews 11:17 Isaac is called Abraham’s "only begotten son" (KJV). Abraham had more than one son, but Isaac was the only son he had by Sarah and the only son of the covenant. Therefore, it is the uniqueness of Isaac among the other sons that allows for the use of monogenes in that context.

    Now that we have the verses, and the meaning, lets get the context.

    In the beginning, we see a description that God had a Mind (Word), a Spirit, and an existence living body covered with light. The Spirit of God left the existence of YHWH and hovered above the waters, which means the Spirit could enter into the creation of YHWH.
    We also see that the Spirit of YHWH, or as we know Him as the Holy Spirit of God, could come onto people and make their bodies change, such as Samson that became super strong as soon as the Spirit intered his body.
    The Spirit came upon Elisha when Elijah annointed him, and he could do magnificent miracles.
    Therefore, the Spirit of YHWH can come into creation, and change the human body!

    Now we have a description in John about the "Word of God" who was with God in the beginning, and this Word of God created everything.

    And God sent His Spirit to Mary and changed her body to become pregnant without intercourse, just as this Spirit changed human attributes before, and a human body was created in Mary, with the "Word of God" in it, which is the Mind of God.
    This human was born, and became known as Jesus.
    This is the reason why God calls Jesus His only begotten Son.
    Jesus was created in the body of Mary by the Holy Spirit of God.
    and God's Word left the existence of YHWH, and entered the fetus.

    Now, take into consideration:
    Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
    Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    Conclusion.
    God had to save his creation from death, because we are all just dying corpses, and to do that God Himself sent his Mind, that became a Human, to live amongst us.
    This is why Christians believe Jesus is God, and why He came as a Human to die!
    To be the first to attain an immortal body for us all to follow in this way to eternity.

    Therefore, what would you call someone that had a human body, that was created, just as Adam's body, but had the mind of God dwelling in that Body.

    One of a Kind, or
    Only Begotten Son.
     
  2. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Begat
    verb
    LITERARY
    past participle: begotten
    1. (especially of a man) bring (a child) into existence by the process of reproduction.

    2. cause; bring about.
     
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  3. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    Nope, you got the meaning of Begat.
    You should go and search homogenis.
    "pertaining to being the only one of its kind within a specific relationship" and "pertaining to being the only one of its kind or class, unique in kind".
    From WIKI.
    anyhow, it has more to do with a special relationship, uniquness etc.
     
  4. MyM

    MyM Well-Known Member

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    I asked you in the thread we are discussing in and in my own to say in your words what the word begotten means. Instead you make a new thread to see what everyone else puts in and you quote verses unrelated to the topic... and you can't even verify where you got your information from.

    The word BEGOTTEN PLEASE. In your words what is it?
     
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  5. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member
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    That is ridiculous.
    If Jesus has "G-d's mind", he was then praying to himself?

    ..oh dear .. what lengths we go to, in order to keep an identity/tribe.
    There are so many creeds, but we all claim that ours is correct.
    I, for one, can't accept logical absurdities.
     
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  6. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    So tell the Oxford English dictionary its wrong and edited by anyone without qualifications wiki and you are right... Lets see who wins.
     
  7. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    Well, If you have the idea that the Word, the Spirit and the Father is 3 persons, or 3 Gods, then you can claim that.
    But if you accept the Biblical description that the Word of God and the Spirit of God can leave the existence of God, and enter creation, you must then accept that if Jesus was a Human, he obviously would pray to God in his human form, just as you and I.
    However, the Word was the creator of everything, and HE DECIDED to become human and HE DECIDED to live and die like a human.
    Do you think the Spirit of God, and the Word of God do not speak to each other?
    When God is in his full glory with the Spirit, Word and Existence in one, like you are listening to your consciense, knowing you have a Spirit that does not die in your body, so YHWH is one God with 3 attributes comprising of His being.
    This is what YHWH is, a Spirit, a Word, and a Father, or holy existence.

    And yes, Jesus did pray to the Father, as a Human!
     
  8. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    I have never said the English dictionary is wrong?
    Where did you get tht idea.
    I said you searched wrong and tried to get the English meaning of Begat!
    I said you should search homogenes.
    There is no fight to win ***.
    You just missed the topic, thats all.
    A simple error from your doing.
    nothing so serious to lick wounds about.
     
    #8 SA Huguenot, Jan 25, 2022
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2022
  9. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    I have not referred to any creed, but to the Bible alone.
    Oh and the meaning of the word Monogenes. (I made a few mistakes in using the wrong word, Homogenes. )
     
    #9 SA Huguenot, Jan 25, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2022
  10. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    Then you should never read the Bible. it is too dangerous to a Muslim.
    This is what the Bible say directly translated to english.
    1. The Gods He created.
    Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

    2. The Spirit of Elohim separated form Elohim and hovered above the waters at creation.
    Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

    On Sodom and Gomorrah, the Bible says this directly translated.
    3. God overturned Sodom and Gomorrah with brimstone and fire from God in the heaven…God states, I have overturned as God overturned.
    Genesis 19:24 And Jehovah rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from Jehovah out of the heavens.
    Jeremiah 50:40 As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighbors, states Jehovah, so no man shall live there, nor shall a son of man stay in it.
    Amos 4:11 I have overturned among you, as God overturned Sodom and Gomorrah, and you were like a firebrand plucked out of the burning; yet you have not returned to Me, declares Jehovah.

    Oh my golly, here we have YHWH working on 2 levels.
     
  11. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    Just some more nice things about the Trinity.
    5. Jehovah called out to Jehovah God when he revealed Himself to Moses.
    Exodus 34:5 And Jehovah came down in the cloud. And he placed himself there with Him, and he called on the name of Jehovah.
    Exodus 34:6 And Jehovah passed by before his face and called out: Jehovah! Jehovah God! Merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and great in goodness and truth,

    6. The God of Israel told David that the Spirit, and the Word spoke to him
    2Samuel 23:2 The Spirit of Jehovah has spoken by me, and His Word is on my tongue.
    2Samuel 23:3 The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spoke to me: One ruling over man righteously, who rules in the fear of God,

    11. What is God’s SON’s NAME who ascended and descended from heaven?
    Proverbs 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is His name, and what is His son's name, if thou canst tell?

    13. I am the First and last, the Lord God, and His Spirit, has sent Me.

    Isaiah 48:12 Listen to Me, O Jacob, and Israel My called: I am He; I am the First; surely I am the Last.
    Isaiah 48:13 My hand surely founded earth, and My right hand has stretched out the heavens; I called to them, they stood up together.
    Isaiah 48:15 I, I have spoken; yea, I have called him, I brought him, and he causes his way to prosper.
    Isaiah 48:16 Come near to Me; hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning. From its being, I was there; and now the Lord Jehovah, and His Spirit, has sent Me.
    Isaiah 48:17 So says Jehovah, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel, I am Jehovah your God, who teaches you to profit, who leads you in the way you should go.
     
  12. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    And to cut it shore, I love these 2 the best
    1. I (YHWH) will pour His Spirit on all flesh...as YHWH said.

    Joel 2:28 And it shall be afterward, I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh. And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions.
    Joel 2:29 And also I will pour out My Spirit on the slaves and on the slave-girls in those days.

    Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD (YHWH) our God (Elohim) is one LORD (YHWH):
    Hear Israel, Yahweh our Gods, He is one Yahweh!
     
  13. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    I searched correctly. You dont like it, as i have said, tell the oed.

    Please note from my original post

    past participle: begotten

    And sarcastic *****iness is not going to change that
     
  14. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member
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    ..but not 3 persons, even though one prays to the other for forgiveness. :)
     
  15. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    Begottten is pretty simple. It's the past participle of the verb begat and basically means you are a direct descendant of something or someone. My only begotten son would be my only male biological child. Jesus being the only begotten son of God would make Jesus the direct descendant of God, a product of him.
     
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  16. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member
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    Say: He is God, the One and Only.
    God, the Eternal, Absolute.
    He begetteth not, nor is He begotten.
    And there is none like unto him.

    -Qur'an-

    G-d and Jesus can't both be G-d..
    One way to explain it, is by holding a series of ecumenical councils, and construing a complicated theology that becomes unbelievable unless we are forced to believe in logical absurdities.

    eg. G-d can in fact make a square circle,
    because He can do anything I say he can :rolleyes:
     
  17. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Sɐlᴉxᴉuɔǝupᴉnɯ
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    **THREAD MOVED TO SCRIPTURAL DEBATES**
     
  18. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    And I saw you refuse to look at the meaning of the word Monogenes. (edited, I used a wrong word Homogenes)
    Why?
    Does it perhaps not fit your narrative?
     
    #18 SA Huguenot, Jan 25, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2022
  19. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    Where?
     
  20. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    Please dont use the Quran in this thread as authorative over the Bible.
    We are talking about the divinity of Jesus, the Word of YHWH.
    from verses from the Bible.
    period.
    To somehow think you can quote the quran saying the Bible is false, is like using sunglasses to tell me the sun does not shine bright.

    If you want to talk about Jesus being God, show me in the Bible where I am wrong, else accept my position that the Bible has authority over the Bible.
     
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