Baptism in Christianity

[Fool]

Like Salvation by works, salvation of infants by infant baptism. Wine turning into blood. Veneration of Mary. Salvation by compulsion.

washing the outside of the cup does nothing. like a white washed wall. the change has to come within as faith and then is seen in works.

pretty words are nothing but pretty words


besides jesus said i do the work that my father sent me to do. there is only service to self and service to all as self.

faith is nothing without works.

the parable of the two sons explains eloquently the idea of faith without works

 

[Muffled]

I only contribute more mystery to the conversation by contributing this passage from Ephesians chapter 4 verses 4-6:

"There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all." (excessive bold and point size are mine)​

I believe that means that Paul does not consider the Baptism of John to be part of Christian faith.

 

[Fool]

I believe the works only count if they come from Jesus. Self glorifying works won't cut it.

glorification is by works, not by faith john 17:4.


you still haven't addressed the op.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I believe as is the case with Muslims you believe in salvation by obedience. However since you can never achieve obedience, you are destined for Hell.

That's not true. Every time I obey is a time I obey. And if I stumble, I repent. The demarcation between the rightous and unrighteous is not whether the righteous are perfect, but whether they repent when they fall.

Proverbs 24:16 For a righteous man falleth seven times, and riseth up again, But the wicked stumble under adversity.

 

[Fool]

That's not true. Every time I obey is a time I obey. And if I stumble, I repent. The demarcation between the rightous and unrighteous is not whether the righteous are perfect, but whether they repent when they fall.

Proverbs 24:16 For a righteous man falleth seven times, and riseth up again, But the wicked stumble under adversity.

there is a disconnect with dualism.

you're responsible for your sins but the works belong to someone else.


it's weird

 

[IndigoChild5559]

there is a disconnect with dualism.

you're responsible for your sins but the works belong to someone else.


it's weird

I'm sorry, but I really didn't follow this at allow, beginning with your remark about dualism, which has no connection to my statement. I'm responsible for all I do, the good, the bad, the ugly.

 

[Fool]

I'm sorry, but I really didn't follow this at allow, beginning with your remark about dualism, which has no connection to my statement. I'm responsible for all I do, the good, the bad, the ugly.

i was agreeing with your view. dualist tend to divide things.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

i was agreeing with your view. dualist tend to divide things.

Dualism is the belief that there are two opposing forces in the universe, good and evil. I'm not a dualist, nor do I understand what connection you are making to our topic.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I believe that means that Paul does not consider the Baptism of John to be part of Christian faith.

Possibly so.

 

[YoursTrue]

Any translation is going to be inferior to the original Hebrew, but as far as translations go, it doesn't look bad. Was there something specific about the verse that you were wondering about?

Yes. The spirit in a Jewish translation was translated as 'it.' not she. From the Hebrew. To English. Why do you think that it is translated as 'it' rather than she if it's (the word from Hebrew, I believe it's ruach) should really be she rather than it I mean it's a translation from a Jewish website.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yes. The spirit in a Jewish translation was translated as 'it.' not she. From the Hebrew. To English. Why do you think that it is translated as 'it' rather than she if it's (the word from Hebrew, I believe it's ruach) should really be she rather than it I mean it's a translation from a Jewish website.

Because in English, a spirit, unless its gender is known, is an it. In Hebrew that is not so. If you went to the Hebrew text, it would say she, not it -- "it" doesn't exist in Hebrew. I'm not sure why this is such an important thing to you.

 

[YoursTrue]

Because in English, a spirit, unless its gender is known, is an it. In Hebrew that is not so. If you went to the Hebrew text, it would say she, not it -- "it" doesn't exist in Hebrew. I'm not sure why this is such an important thing to you.

For one thing, I don't believe that God is one member of a triune compendium called the trinity. So the holy spirit, or ruach, is from God and of God. Now let me understand you.

in the nt spirit isn't neuter. it's feminine. still has nothing to do with the name

@IndigoChild5559 also -- As has been mentioned, a car or ship can be referred to as 'she.' But it's really not feminine or masculine in the literal sense, is it. Neither is the spirit or ruach (Hebrew) of God, although the word spirit in Hebrew is apparently technically in the feminine case. Languages can be a bit difficult.

 

[YoursTrue]

Because in English, a spirit, unless its gender is known, is an it. In Hebrew that is not so. If you went to the Hebrew text, it would say she, not it -- "it" doesn't exist in Hebrew. I'm not sure why this is such an important thing to you.

In that sense, I believe the word 'ruach' or spirit can be used in various senses. But perhaps I can go into that another time.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

For one thing, I don't believe that God is one member of a triune compendium called the trinity. So the holy spirit, or ruach, is from God and of God. Now let me understand you.

I don't accept the trinity either. In Judaism the Holy Spirit simply refers to the power of God.

It is also worth mentioning that God transcends gender. He is neither male nor female (nor an it). He simply doesn't fit into these categories. However, he has attributes that are commonly associated with both male and female.

 

[YoursTrue]

I don't accept the trinity either. In Judaism the Holy Spirit simply refers to the power of God.

It is also worth mentioning that God transcends gender. He is neither male nor female (nor an it). He simply doesn't fit into these categories. However, he has attributes that are commonly associated with both male and female.

I feel obliged to tell you that I agree, based on my study of the Scriptures. There's more to it, but from my study and research, I see that the word ruach, and/or spirit, does not refer to one of the three persons of a triune so-called Godhead. I also agree that the Almighty God does transcend gender, any depiction of Him as seen by Daniel and other prophets is so that we can better understand Him. Of course, God Almighty told Moses that if he saw His face, he would die. I'm sure you remember that. Yes, I use the masculine because that makes sense based on what the Bible says. And -- since "He" said, "Let US make man in OUR image," it is obvious HE was talking to -- someone else. But I won't go into that now. PLUS, HE made Adam and then Eve. Two, the female coming from the male's rib. Thanks for bringing up what you did. Of course, there's more to it, and I'm not a Hebrew scholar, but I do try to understand.

 

[Fool]

Dualism is the belief that there are two opposing forces in the universe, good and evil. I'm not a dualist, nor do I understand what connection you are making to our topic.

"Most" Abrahamic believers are dualists. They divide God/divine, or separate God/divine from themselves.

Oneness or atonement can't be achieved by dividing/separating

 

[Fool]

For one thing, I don't believe that God is one member of a triune compendium called the trinity. So the holy spirit, or ruach, is from God and of God. Now let me understand you.

It is is understood as a mind, body spirit complex.you are an image of that.

All three have one name, the complex has one name.

@IndigoChild5559 also -- As has been mentioned, a car or ship can be referred to as 'she.' But it's really not feminine or masculine in the literal sense, is it. Neither is the spirit or ruach (Hebrew) of God, although the word spirit in Hebrew is apparently technically in the feminine case. Languages can be a bit difficult.

the gender of something is not it's name.

The name is literally what you are to be baptized, immersed, washed in. It is the spirit of God's being that cleanses from the inside out.

 

[rational experiences]

All human babies...all of us born by law human sex. Live in a mother humans body bio womb and water. Water over our head released us into human life as a human baby born baptised.

If you still own use of mind human consciousness. The vessel a holy human mother as human baby life owner.

As a human womans body is woman ovary genetic hormones. A man baby is born an immaculate man. Self stated man not converted into woman said a thinker theist.

Fact. If you didn't have to think unnaturally about life then you would never had said all the non needed themes either.

In life presence the natural human.

Now in life of nature a man human. Who is at your man side?

A woman human.
My brother's men.
Animals.
Nature.

In all bodies.

What's not at your side? Maths and themes zero space...science.

Okay.

What did you put at your side?

A machine.

What did the reaction cause to cold mass?

Gases cold above to convert began burning falling.

What state saved your life head mind? Water flooding over my head. Rain stopped burning gas. I was saved as ice the saviour body melted sacrificed. Put water mass ground leaving evaporated back.

A teaching only of life being relative in holy water only.

Now are animals at your side who eat from manger grasses born like you are?

Yes...born from beast animal mother.

Not my human mother.

Why did you discuss their life with your man baby life?

As men included beast DnA life with our human life. As a theory. Did not claim the beast life mutual equal in its body type.

Was why.

Instead I had to say a stable atmosphere allows all baby bio life to be born the same.....not I'm a beast too.

Now if a man looks at a dog at his side. Doesn't the I compare say if I pretended I had been a dog as a man my life would be bio destroyed?

Yes.

The same as his fake ape monkey theisms. They live with him just less human.

So in fact a human looking at a monkey in theory would in science have to categorically state it's a destroyed human?

Yes.

By law status.

Baptism....holy womb mother human vessel is first.

Man in ceremony is man in a ceremony only.

 

[YoursTrue]

It is is understood as a mind, body spirit complex.you are an image of that.

All three have one name, the complex has one name.




the gender of something is not it's name.

The name is literally what you are to be baptized, immersed, washed in. It is the spirit of God's being that cleanses from the inside out.

I've heard that type of argument before, but it is not consistent or in harmony with the Bible.

 

[YoursTrue]

"Most" Abrahamic believers are dualists. They divide God/divine, or separate God/divine from themselves.

Oneness or atonement can't be achieved by dividing/separating

I have no idea what you're talking about and don't think I want to go into it.