So my view on reincarnation is the same as yours. Good to know. See you next lifetime then. We shall sit and discuss.
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Bahaullah has revealed!
- Thread starter paarsurrey
- Start date
So my view on reincarnation is the same as yours. Good to know. See you next lifetime then. We shall sit and discuss.
You must make that choice yourself.
Most had a chance to save their lives by just saying I do not beleive the new message. Thus they chose not to live a lie and that carries through to those that lived to tell their own story and to pass on the stories for those that did not live.
To those that really believe in the Quran, their word and honor is sworn on the Quran and they remain trueful to it.
The enemy used the Quran and broke their word.
Regards Tony
Our views do not have to be the same. The science on our Frame of Reference is good in understanding this basic fact of life.
For this life to work, so we can all share it in a loving peaceful way, I see there would have to be most likely just a couple of important aspects we would all have to consider.
First and foremost is that we are one human race and all live on one earth.
Regards Tony
The enemy? I'm not familiar with this history you are referring to. I thought that Baha'is had no enemies.
Science on our Frame of Reference? I have absolutely no idea what you mean by this.
Yes indeed we are all one human race. Too bad there is so much divisiveness from that dualist 'us versus them' mentality. Would it not be better to acknowledge the differences and leave it at that?
The time of the Bab saw many an epic battle. It was a time of rapid transition when Holy war was not yet forbidden by Baha'u'llah, even though it was hinted to in the Message of the Bab.
Big subject.
Regards Tony
So you guys did have a violent beginning. Good to know. Not good for the sake of ahimsa, but good to know to better understand the Baha'i faith. There were many pacifists from that era that fled. Several fled Eastern Europe.
I know what frame of reference means, but not how you say ''' Science on our''
Most likely time restraints and not enough explanation. Have to go for a while.
The science behind Frames of Reference.
Sorry, regards Tony
Breakfast doen't last all day here either. That much we really do have in common.
The accusation was that Shoghi Effendi translated verse 3:7 to suit his own agenda which I will show is incorrect. He referred to a different translation for that verse instead of Rodwell.
Shoghi Effendi did not change any translations of the Quran. He used mainly Rodwell but in Sura 3:7 he used the Shiah Quran translation.
People are entitled to reject or accept anything they wish but false allegations against Baha’u’llah or Shoghi Effendi need to be defended as they are false and so let me quote the false accusation that Shoghi Effendi tampered with a Quran verse number 3:7.
Rodwell 3:7 translates this as:
yet none knoweth its interpretation but God.
Shoghi Effendi quoted it as
“None knoweth the meaning thereof except God and them that are well-grounded in knowledge.”
The difference means others can interpret the Quran not just God.
But the false accusation by pasrsurrey is that Shoghi Effendi made up this translation to suit his own agenda which I will prove is untrue.
Shoghi Effendi’s different quote of Sura 3:7 is not his own translation but that of the Shia Quran translators.
On page 69 of the digital PDF of the Shiah Quran we read Sura 3:7 as:
http://www.duas.org/pdfs/QuranTranslation_Ali Quri.pdf
But no one knows its interpretation except Allah and those firmly grounded in knowledge;
In yet another Shia translation of 3:7 on page 64 of the digital copy here we read yet again:
https://shiaquran.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/quran-eng-final-copy-21.pdf
And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah and those firmly rooted in knowledge
Shiah Islam believe others can interpret the Quran so the full stop is placed differently yet it changes the entire meaning of the verse. Yet Shiahs claim that Muhammad knew the true meanings so that others apart from God know the interpretation and so 3:7 would be incorrectly translated if it said only God knows the interpretation of the Quran. Baha’u’llah said that ‘by those well grounded in knowledge’ meant the Manifestations only not every scholar or priest.
There is no case for falsely accusing Shoghi Effendi here whatsoever as the Shiah translators are evidence he was using their model not his own.
Maybe we do not see all posts?
If not, have we crossed wires in all this as I thought it was the Husban issue that was being addressed by paarsurry?
Regards Tony
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Yeah, I know. It's weird how my brain works. I read about Abraham telling a lie and stupidly think he's lying. I read about Adam lying to God about eating the forbidden fruit and dumb me, I immediately assume he's lying. Unless, the lie is that these people were manifestations, and telling a lie now and then is just part of being a fallible human and not some divine, perfectly polished mirror kind of person. That is, if Adam and Abraham really existed. Or maybe, just maybe, they were only characters in the mythical religious story of the Jewish people?If you wish to understand it that way. Baha'u'llah has explained all this...now what was that book...the Kitab-i-iqan.
At least I get to remember how to spell that book, who knows, you may read it.
Regards Tony
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
None of it is a lie? Cool, then the NT writers were correct Jesus rose physically from the dead. Silly me, I had my doubts. Thanks for clearing that up.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Ouch!
And so....... if Bahai should ever control a country, or the World, it's Houses of Justice, being 'well grounded in knowledge' could think like God'?
If Bahai should ever get big, it would get dangerous, I think.
That too but I’m sure 3:7 was mentioned. The matter of Baha’u’llah interpreting 55:5 I already explained that He was already a Manifestation well before the Aidan was revealed but like Muhammad kept itvsecret.
I also quoted a verse in the Quran where God calls the believers to the Abode Of Peace which was the old name for Baghdad do both were addressed already.
The thread was asking whether Baha’u’llah was ‘well grounded in knowledge’ and continued to say Shoghi Effendi had fabricated 3:7 so I was just addressing it.
If you’re seeing something else then maybe there’s a technical issue but I’ll check again.
Tony look at post #53 on this thread please.
Then go to this link please.
Was Bahaullah a well-grounded in knowledge people of Quran?
In post #53 I have already answered the question yet noticed another thread asking about Quran 3:7. There is nothing more to say as it’s a Shiah translation so somehow the topic has been given its own thread as well as asked here on this thread.
Can you please verify I’m not seeing things., lol
The new thread was created only yesterday.
Most likely me, as I am not getting on very often and then only on the phone, thus not seeing all the conversations.
All good, stay well and happy. Regards Tony
Given the amount of times the metaphor has been explained, especially with Adam, you are free to see them anyway you wish to. No use going over old ground.
Also there is a book that explains what to look for in all the Metaphor, have we told you about it?
Regards Tony