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Featured Bahaullah has revealed!

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by paarsurrey, Mar 24, 2019.

  1. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    The Jews do not agree with His new covenant. They say, Jesus cannot be the true Messiah, because He did not fulfill the Prophecies. Bahaullah also made a new covenant, so, how can we say He is not return of Christ?
     
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  2. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's all claims are within Islam/Quran/Muhammad, he started no new Religion while Bahaullah's claims are outside of Islam/Quran/Muhammad, he started a new Religion, as his followers claim about it, yet he provided no name for it.
    But we are discussing here that Bahaullah did not in a clear-cut manner claim in Iqan that Iqan was a Word of Revelation from G-d, he just wrote it as any human being would write and yet not claim that its contents have been revealed from G-d. Iqan is a brain-child of Bahaullah, not from G-d. Right, please?

    Regards
     
    #142 paarsurrey, Apr 20, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2019
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  3. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    Your choice paarsurry.

    Many muslim divines also made a choice to accept the Bab and Baha'u'llah with their lives. Personally I agree with them and long to be in the company of such devoted and pure souls.

    Regards Tony
     
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  4. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Paarsurrey, my point was how you're really humble about it, and rarely mention it, whereas with Baha'i it's mentioned at nearly every post. I thank you for that.
     
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  5. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Well that is everybody's birth-right, whether a divine or not a divine, with reason or without reason. The pertinent question here is whether Kitab-i-Iqan was revealed in the sense Quran was revealed to Muhammad?

    Muhammad kept Word of Revelation from G-d (Quran) separate from his own conversation with his companions and instructions to them .

    Muhammad forbade Muslims to write anything from him , other than Quran, as long as Quran was being revealed so that it is not mixed up. It was for this that Hadith was written 250/300 years after him.

    It is not of much significance that Iqan was written/dictated by Bahaullah in a night , or in a day and a night, or within two days or so. The substance or its contents is/are important which Bahaullah did not in an unequivocal manner claim ,in Iqan, was revealed on him from G-d.

    In the sense Quran was revealed on Muhammad; Iqan was not, emphatically not, revealed on Baha'ullah from G-d. Quran is authored by G-d but Iqan is not authored by G-d.
    The contents of Iqan also suggest that Bahaullah simply employed the " all's fair in love and sales" technique and the contents are not meaningful enough otherwise.

    Regards

    ______________
    *#1 siti
     
    #145 paarsurrey, Apr 21, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
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  6. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    I see a literal interpretation has been taken.

    I would assume this is your source,

    The soundness of the hadeeth “Do not write anything from me…” and explanation of what it means - Islam Question & Answer

    We need the full Hadith;

    "Praise be to Allaah.

    It was narrated from Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Do not write anything from me; whoever has written anything from me other than the Qur’aan, let him erase it and narrate from me, for there is nothing wrong with that.” (Narrated by Muslim, al-Zuhd wa’l-Raqaa’iq, 5326)

    One would have to quote the Quran verses that support this Hadith, otherwise it is accused exactly as it is accusing.

    But I see a wisdom in it that is also in the Bible and thus we can show why your argument is not valid.

    Deuteronomy 4:2"You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you."

    The Bible has a few other verses that say much the same.

    Thus I see the Hadith is saying the same thing. It is saying not to add meaning to the book that is not there. The Hadith supports discussing the Word of God.

    A good example in Biblical terms is discussing the writings about the Station of Christ and God, but not making a doctrine called the Trinity. A doctrine that was made to stop any other ideas. Thus to me the Haddith says erase the Trinity, just as Muhammad did in the Quran.

    The Kitab-i-iqan was written by a Messenger from God. Thus as I said, it is your choice.

    To me there is no doubt about that Book, it is the word of Allah.

    Regards Tony
     
    #146 Tony Bristow-Stagg, Apr 21, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
  7. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Whatever the Hadith/Tradition/Saying etc, it should be understood within the purview of Quran- Word of G-d. And if the Hadith/Tradition/Saying etc is against the verses of Quran, it is either to be rejected forthwith or else interpreted within the scope of Quran.
    Quran in itself is complete and needs nothing from elsewhere NT-Bible or OT-Bible or Torah or any other religious scripture or non-religious ones. Quran is valid till the end of the world when everything in the Universe will come to an end:

    AYAH ar-Rahman 55:26
    Arabic[​IMG] كُلُّ مَنْ عَلَيْهَا فَانٍ [​IMG]
    Transliteration[​IMG] Kullu man AAalayha fanin [​IMG]
    Transliteration-2 kullu man ʿalayhā fānin [​IMG]
    Literal
    (Word by Word) Everyone who (is) on it (will) perish.

    AYAH ar-Rahman 55:27
    Arabic[​IMG] وَيَبْقَىٰ وَجْهُ رَبِّكَ ذُو الْجَلَالِ وَالْإِكْرَامِ [​IMG]
    Transliteration[​IMG] Wayabqa wajhu rabbika thoo aljalali waal-ikrami [​IMG]
    Transliteration-2 wayabqā wajhu rabbika dhū l-jalāli wal-ik'rāmi [​IMG]
    Literal
    (Word by Word) But will remain (the) Face (of) your Lord, (the) Owner (of) Majesty and Honor.
    ar-Rahman 55:27

    Regards
     
  8. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    That end came with the declaration of the Bab. Also In Mecca the Bab announced to the crowd circulating around the most holy site, I am, I am, I am the promised one. Have you read.of that story and the subsequent interrogation?

    That caused the destruction of the old heven and earth and the making of a new heaven and a new earth.

    The result of people clinging to the old heavens and the old earth is now manifest as clear as the noon day sun.

    Regards Tony
     
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