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Featured Bahaullah has revealed!

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by paarsurrey, Mar 24, 2019.

  1. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Bahaullah has revealed!

    The above sentence means Bahaullah has/had told/written something. It does not mean that God has told something to Bahaullah.
    Am I correct? Please.

    Thread open to everybody of any religion or no-religion, please.

    Regards
     
  2. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Baha'is believe Baha'u'llah revealed a Message from God as did Muhammad, Christ and Mose before Him. Obviously Muslims believe Baha'u'llah's Message was not from God. To consider whether a Prophet or Messenger of God really is a Prophet or Messenger of God and not just another ordinary human with his own ideas certain criteria need to be fulfilled.
     
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  3. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Bahaullah has revealed!


    1. The Kitáb-i-Íqán | Bahá'í Reference Library - The Bahá'í Faith

    https://www.bahai.org/library/authoritative-texts/bahaullah/kitab-i-iqan/

    A treatise revealed by Bahá'u'lláh in Baghdad in 1861/62 in response to questions posed by one of the maternal uncles of the Báb, translated by Shoghi Effendi ...

    2. Lawh-i Ibn-i Dhi'b, Lawh-i Shaykh (Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, ESW), `Akka, latter part and perhaps all revealed between 27 June and early August, 1891 (see Ra'fati, in Pazhuheshnameh 2:1).
    Mentioned as "the last outstanding Tablet revealed by the pen of Baha'u'llah" GPB 220; further GPB 201, 219, 220, 232, 238; PDC 117, 141.

    http://www.bahai-biblio.org/centre-doc/saint/list-tablet-baha-u-llah.htm

    The term "revealed" here simply means written by. Right. please?

    Regards
     
  4. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that is my understanding of revealed.
    Where Baha'u'llah got the revelation is another matter. ;)
     
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  5. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Muhammad spoke the words of the Quran. He was illiterate so did not write them down. Should we assume they came from Muhammad and not from God?
     
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  6. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Sorry, I am not much concerned with the Bahais and or the Bahaism, and as to what they believe. They are human beings, they can make mistakes.

    My interest is only in Bahaullah , his claims and the arguments given by him in support of his claims.
    I am reading Kitab-e-Iqan by Bahaullah and it occurred to me that Bahaullah does not say in it in clear and unequivocal terms about the things written in this book that these has been revealed on/to him by/from G-d. Right, please?
    I will appreciate if somebody gives quotes from Iqan, if I am wrong.

    Regards
     
  7. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    Trying to isolate the claim of Revelation if you want to discuss the claims of Baha'u'llah ether from the perspective of the Baha'i Faith, or the claims of the other religions, which the Baha'i Faith believes in a progressive unity.

    Mohammud has revealed!

    The above sentence means Mohammud has/had told/written something. It does not mean that God has told something to Mohammud.

    Am I correct? Please.

    Jesus Christ has revealed!

    The above sentence means Jesus Christ has/had told/written something. It does not mean that God has told something to Jesus Christ.

    Am I correct? Please.

    Moses has revealed!

    The above sentence means Moses has/had told/written something. It does not mean that God has told something to Moses.

    Am I correct? Please.
     
    #7 shunyadragon, Mar 24, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
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  8. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    You can not take one book in isolation from the rest of Baha'u'llah's Revelation anymore than you can take one chapter in isolation of the Quran Revealed by Muhammad.

    The Kitab-I-Iqan is concerned mainly with the underlying unity of religion. It was revealed 'before' Baha'u'llah declared to the One the Bab referred to as Him whom God shall make manifest. Baha'u'llah first made this clear in the garden of Ridvan 1863. Baha'u'llah made more explicit claims to be the Promised One of all ages and all scriptures later when He wrote to the Kings and Rulers.

    Bahá'í Reference Library - Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 7-9

    For example when writing to Pope Pius IX He claims to be the Return of Christ.

    O Pope! Rend the veils asunder. He Who is the Lord of Lords is come overshadowed with clouds, and the decree hath been fulfilled by God, the Almighty, the Unrestrained. Dispel the mists through the power of thy Lord, and ascend unto the Kingdom of His names and attributes. Thus hath the Pen of the Most High commanded thee at the behest of thy Lord, the Almighty, the All-Compelling. He, verily, hath again come down from Heaven even as He came down from it the first time. Beware that thou dispute not with Him even as the Pharisees disputed with Him without a clear token or proof. On His right hand flow the living waters of grace, and on His left the choice Wine of justice, whilst before Him march the angels of Paradise, bearing the banners of His signs. Beware lest any name debar thee from God, the Creator of earth and heaven. Leave thou the world behind thee, and turn towards thy Lord, through Whom the whole earth hath been illumined.

    Bahá'í Reference Library - The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, Pages 54-67
     
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  9. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Well-Known Member
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    The book was written to prove the Bab gave a Message from God. In doing this Baha'u'llah proved all the Messengers gave a Message from the same One God, Allah.

    The book also proves they are Born a Messenger and that all their wisdom is from God. Right from day 1 they are seen to be very special.

    So that also includes the Kitab-i-iqan, as the entire life and works of Baha'u'llah, is from Allah.

    Regards Tony
     
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  10. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    All of Baha’u’llah’s Words were from God. God taught Baha’u’llah all knowledge. As He says below all His knowledge is from God not from Himself. So like the Holy Quran all Baha’u’llah’s Writings are the Word of God.

    So the Book of Certitude is from God written by the Pen of Baha’u’llah and it is the Book that broke the seals of the Book referred to by Daniel

    O KING! I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing.
     
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  11. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    If Bahaullah got the revelation about Iqan from somewhere else then please quote that source from Iqan.

    Regards
     
  12. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    I believe the @loverofhumanity clearly stated specifically Baha'u'llah's claim in his own words, but that in and of itself does not have any influence nor evidence for those that simply reject other religions based on their own beliefs. You are neglecting the reality of the relationships of the different religions of the world. Judaism rejects the claims of Revelation of Christianity, Islam and the Baha'i Faith, Christians reject the claims of Revelation of Islam and the Baha'i Faith, and Islam rejects the claims of Revelation of the Baha'i Faith. These are simply the consistent rejection of the claims of religions that come after the Revelation of one's own religion.

    I believe you have to go beyond the claims of the religions to how does each religion relate to the reality of the history of ALL of humanity in the contemporary world where the rubber meets the road with the believers. The nature of spiritual relationships in the real world are the key witness of the validity of the claim of a religion in the contemporary world.
     
  13. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    I just want to know the claim from Bahaullah, in clear and unequivocal terms, that he got Iqan revealed on him from G-d, from Iqan itself. If one has read Iqan, it should not be difficult to state. Right, please?

    Regards
     
  14. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Bahaullah has revealed!

    paarsurrey said:
    The term "revealed" here simply means written by. Right. please?

    "Yes, that is my understanding of revealed."Unquote

    Thanks for agreeing with me.

    Regards
     
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  15. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    Bahai scriptures teach that Bahaullah is a Manfiestation of God, from the Moment He was born, but He did not reveal His station to everyone, untill His declaration in 1863. The Book of Iqan was revealed two years before His public delaration, so, people were not ready to be told of a new revelation. I suggest, you see, why Muhammad kept it secret that He was a Messenger of God during the first years of His revelation. Each of the Messengers of God, have a set time as their declaration, and before the time has not come, They do not tell others that, They are revealing words of God. This is why in Iqan, He did not explicitly say He is revealling words of God.
     
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  16. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Baha’u’llah received confirmation of His Station as a Manifestation of God in 1852 in Tehran when a Maiden appeared to Him in the Black Pit dungeon similar to Muhammad’s first revelation by Gabriel in the Cave.

    Like Muhammad, Baha’u’llah did not make it public until 1863. The Book of Certitude was revealed in 1862

    If you want real confirmation from God regarding Baha’u’llah then remember He was in Baghdad when He revealed the Book of Certitude and the old name for Baghdad was the Abode Of Peace.

    Sura 10:25

    And God summons to the Abode of Peace, and He guides whomsoever He will to a straight path;

    المسالك::The city of Baghdad; its description by Ibn Jubair
     
    #16 loverofhumanity, Mar 25, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
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  17. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    I have not yet inquired about when did Bahaullah claim/declare about his stations as ascribed to him by the Bahaism people. They have a right to believe or not to believe anything about anybody with or without any arguments, I have no objection to that.

    I repeat my humble submission again:

    My interest is only in Bahaullah , his claims and the arguments given by him in support of his claims.

    I am reading Kitab-e-Iqan by Bahaullah and it occurred to me that Bahaullah does not say in it in clear and unequivocal terms about the things written in this book that these has been revealed on/to him by/from G-d. Right, please?
    I will appreciate if somebody gives quotes from Iqan, if I am wrong.

    Regards
     
  18. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    In the Book of Certitude Baha’u’llah references the Quran 10:35 referring to Himself that God is calling all to the Abode Of Peace, Baghdad. This is in reference to Himself that God is calling all to Him in Baghdad. The Quran He quotes is referring to Him He is claiming.

    The Quran quote I gave you was in the Book of Certitude.

    We seal Our theme with that which was formerly revealed unto Muhammad that the seal thereof may shed the fragrance of that holy musk which leadeth men unto the Ridván of unfading splendour. He said, and His Word is the truth: “And God calleth to the Abode of Peace; and He guideth whom He will into the right way.” “For them is an Abode of Peace with their Lord! and He shall be their Protector because of their works.”This He hath revealed that His grace may encompass the world. Praise be to God, the Lord of all being!”

    The Kitáb-i-Íqán
    Bahá’u’lláh
     
  19. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

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    God was the Source of that Revelation.
     
  20. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    You are correct. Bahaullah did NOT say in clear terms that, the Book of Iqan is a revelation from God. Does that answer your question?
     
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