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Baha'is and peace claims

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
I have seen Baha'is make claims of their religion helping to promote peace. Such Baha'is are probably inspired by their prophet, who made a few statements that sounded universal, that didn't match every action he (Bahaullah) seemed to take. When Baha'is are confronted about these claims by non-Baha'is, the claims never withstand the test of fire. Once scrutinized, Baha'is either retreat, deflect, or start a tit-for-tat engagement. These discussions are important because if answered properly and with fact and evidence, they have the possibility of swaying people to at the very least, respect and admire Baha'i beliefs. However, the lack of proper response shows Baha'is don't have the answer to the questions upon bringing up the subject, and as a result, such statements about peace, which seem to have been refuted again and again by others, are then seen as an effort to preach, as they can't really be looked on as a statement based in reality.
 

Regiomontanus

Retired astronomer, Russian Orthodox
I have seen Baha'is make claims of their religion helping to promote peace. Such Baha'is are probably inspired by their prophet, who made a few statements that sounded universal, that didn't match every action he (Bahaullah) seemed to take. When Baha'is are confronted about these claims by non-Baha'is, the claims never withstand the test of fire. Once scrutinized, Baha'is either retreat, deflect, or start a tit-for-tat engagement. These discussions are important because if answered properly and with fact and evidence, they have the possibility of swaying people to at the very least, respect and admire Baha'i beliefs. However, the lack of proper response shows Baha'is don't have the answer to the questions upon bringing up the subject, and as a result, such statements about peace, which seem to have been refuted again and again by others, are then seen as an effort to preach, as they can't really be looked on as a statement based in reality.

?
 

Sirona

Hindu Wannabe
Granted, I'm not a Baha'i but from the impressions I got here and the things I learned, many Baha'i seem to believe that world peace is going to magically happen by itself if only, if only all people on Earth became Baha'is. I may be exaggerating but from my view, either you are a follower of Baha'ullah or you're automatically against "progress", "the unity of mankind", "world peace", and against similar noble characteristics which many Baha'is claim only their worldview can provide.
 

Sirona

Hindu Wannabe
I have seen Baha'is make claims of their religion helping to promote peace.

I think they consider sources of conflict only or almost exclusively from the "problem" of diverging religions. It seems to me that they neglect other sources of conflict such as economic, cultural, or environmental issues. Once the diverging religions are eliminated, problem solved :thumbsup:
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
Granted, I'm not a Baha'i but from the impressions I got here and the things I learned, many Baha'i seem to believe that world peace is going to magically happen by itself if only, if only all people on Earth became Baha'is. I may be exaggerating but from my view, either you are a follower of Baha'ullah or you're automatically against "progress", "the unity of mankind", "world peace", and against similar noble characteristics which many Baha'is claim only their worldview can provide.

Yeah, I personally don't feel the Baha'I faith serves as the proper "motherboard" to connect all faiths.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Yeah, I personally don't feel the Baha'I faith serves as the proper "motherboard" to connect all faiths.
I can not say what others should think of Baha`i but to me, most of the followers seem really friendly and nice (to me anyway) But there are some who make it difficult to understand what really Baha`i belief is. But since i am not Baha'i my self my words does not count much within Baha`i community i would think :)
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Granted, I'm not a Baha'i but from the impressions I got here and the things I learned, many Baha'i seem to believe that world peace is going to magically happen by itself if only, if only all people on Earth became Baha'is. I may be exaggerating but from my view, either you are a follower of Baha'ullah or you're automatically against "progress", "the unity of mankind", "world peace", and against similar noble characteristics which many Baha'is claim only their worldview can provide.
Maybe @ adrian009, @ Tony Bristow-Stagg , or @ loverofhumanity might want to chime in and give their views because all Baha'is have different views.

In my opinion, Baha'is do not believe that world peace is contingent upon everyone becoming Baha'is. World peace is a political thing, it has nothing to do with what religion people belong to.

It is not true that unless you are a follower of Baha'u'llah you are automatically against "progress", "the unity of mankind", "world peace", and against similar noble characteristics. Baha'is definitely do not believe that only our religion can provide these things. Many people in the world have the same aspirations towards these things and are working towards them. They do not have to join the Baha'i Faith in order to believe in peace and the unity of mankind and thereby be part of the solution.

“When asked on one occasion: “What is a Bahá’í?” ‘Abdu’l-Bahá replied: “To be a Bahá’í simply means to love all the world; to love humanity and try to serve it; to work for universal peace and universal brotherhood.” On another occasion He defined a Bahá’í as “one endowed with all the perfections of man in activity.” In one of His London talks He said that a man may be a Bahá’í even if He has never heard the name of Bahá’u’lláh. He added:—

The man who lives the life according to the teachings of Bahá’u’lláh is already a Bahá’í. On the other hand, a man may call himself a Bahá’í for fifty years, and if he does not live the life he is not a Bahá’í. An ugly man may call himself handsome, but he deceives no one, and a black man may call himself white, yet he deceives no one, not even himself.

One who does not know God’s Messengers, however, is like a plant growing in the shade. Although it knows not the sun, it is, nevertheless, absolutely dependent on it. The great Prophets are spirits suns, and Bahá’u’lláh is the sun of this “day” in which we live. The suns of former days have warmed and vivified the world, and had those suns not shone, the earth would not be cold and dead, but it is the sunshine of today that alone can ripen the fruits which the suns of former days have kissed into life.”
Bahá’u’lláh and the New Era, pp. 71-72


 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I think they consider sources of conflict only or almost exclusively from the "problem" of diverging religions. It seems to me that they neglect other sources of conflict such as economic, cultural, or environmental issues. Once the diverging religions are eliminated, problem solved :thumbsup:
Bahais do not I think sources of conflict come from the diverging religions, and we do not even believe that those are a problem. We realize the sources of conflict involve We do not believe that the diverging religions need to be eliminated. We realize that other sources of conflict involve economic, cultural, or environmental issues.
 

Sirona

Hindu Wannabe
Maybe "world peace" should be rephrased to "religious peace",then? Many Bahai's believe in a world government to be established by the Universal House of Justice, with only one religion Baha'i laws to be applied. How could such a goal not be political? Don't you know that Baha'ullah wrote letters to the politicians of his time, telling them what they should do? How could this not be political? Most Baha'is believe in "Progressive Relevation", effectively meaning that all religions are except for the Baha'i faith "outdated" and that their members should become Baha'is because it's "reasonable". If Baha'i really accept the other faiths as most Baha'is claim to do, why do you want others to accept your faith?
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
You have explained it nicely that Bahai banner is not for everyone and peace is possible even if one is not Bahai. Though practically there are many other obstacles to world peace and it is not likely to come soon. How would atheists accept any messenger or prophet from Allah when they do not even believe in existence of any Allah? And why only Bahaollah is 'the sun of the day', why not Jesus or Mohammad? Jesus and Mohammad still warm half the humanity. So, what is your plan for the diverging religions and atheists? You are perhaps just 5 million, they are some more than five billion. That makes the ratio like 1 to 1000.
 
Do not all religions consider themselves exalted and chosen? Therein lies prevalent hypocricy, something much more universal than any of their claims. It's the elephant in the room, the holy cow you're forbidden to mention. But even the emperor's new clothes do not escape the notice of "pregnant nuns".
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Maybe "world peace" should be rephrased to "religious peace",then? Many Bahai's believe in a world government to be established by the Universal House of Justice, with only one religion Baha'i laws to be applied.
I do not believe that a world government will be established by the Universal House of Justice, with only one religion and Baha'i laws to be applied. Maybe other Baha'is such as @ adrian009, @ Tony Bristow-Stagg , and @ loverofhumanity have different ideas about that.
Most Baha'is believe in "Progressive Relevation", effectively meaning that all religions are except for the Baha'i faith "outdated" and that their members should become Baha'is because it's "reasonable". If Baha'i really accept the other faiths as most Baha'is claim to do, why do you want others to accept your faith?
Baha'is do not believe that others should accept our faith. We believe that has to be a choice people make only if they want to and only after they have done a proper investigation. We do not want others to accept our faith unless they choose to do so by virtue of their own free will.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
You have explained it nicely that Bahai banner is not for everyone and peace is possible even if one is not Bahai. Though practically there are many other obstacles to world peace and it is not likely to come soon.
That is probably true, there are many obstacles, and they are not all religious ones.
How would atheists accept any messenger or prophet from Allah when they do not even believe in existence of any Allah?
They wouldn't and they don't have to unless they want to.
And why only Bahaollah is 'the sun of the day', why not Jesus or Mohammad? Jesus and Mohammad still warm half the humanity. So, what is your plan for the diverging religions and atheists? You are perhaps just 5 million, they are some more than five billion. That makes the ratio like 1 to 1000.
Baha'u'llah is the sun of this day because God sent Him to be the Messenger for this day.

Bahais have no plans for atheists or diverging religions. They have to make their own plans.

The Baha'i Faith is small and it will remain small until more Bahais tell more people about their faith. Granted, that won't make much difference because most people will reject the Baha'i Faith and cling to their own faith, but at least they will have the choice.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Baha'u'llah is the sun of this day because God sent Him to be the Messenger for this day.
You have no evidence for the claim, neither for any God or Allah, nor for this 19th Century Iranian preacher who took the advantage of Bab's death and became the leader of his followers. Though Bab himself was one in the LONG LINE of people who claimed authority from Allah, aq very common theme in Abrahamic religions since no evidence is required to be produced.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
You have no evidence for the claim, neither for any God or Allah, nor for this 19th Century Iranian preacher who took the advantage of Bab's death and became the leader of his followers. Though Bab himself was one in the LONG LINE of people who claimed authority from Allah, aq very common theme in Abrahamic religions since no evidence is required to be produced.
I do not have any proof, but I have evidence.

Evidence: the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid:https://www.google.com/search

Proof: evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement: https://www.google.com/search
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I am sorry that you could not mention even one or two. I know what trash revelations are, have always been, and I would not go through the 10,000 pages of what all Bahaollah and his progeny have written.
 
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