Baha'i and Science

[wandering peacefully]

Somewhat, this. I still really respect them, but I'm trying to follow all the facts through to conclusion, whether Bahaullah was actually the way the Baha'i faith is today.

I hear they have some nice ideas but they really are no different than the hundreds of other sects of Abrahamic thinking. If they really want to become mainstream and thought of as sincere, they are going to have to drop the whole Bahallua infallible idea. Get with what is actually happening in this world and adjust and adapt accordingly. Otherwise, they will forever remain another cult like or small religion like the thousands others out there to choose from. I'll bow out now. I do understand people like this religion and wouldn't deter anyone from any path they seek. I just don't believe this Baha'i religion is the saving grace humanity is looking for. The way they think now, i'ts just another religion. From anyone looking in from the outside that is.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Because of the Covenant of Baha’u’llah. The Will of Baha’u’llah authorised Abdu’l-Baha to be His Interpreter and Abdu’l-Baha in His Will authorized Shoghi Effendi and the Universal House of Justice. And the Guardian stated that is what Baha’u’llah meant.

Here is an excerpt regarding the authority of both the Guardian Shoghi Effendi and the Universal House of Justice..


The sacred and youthful branch, the Guardian of the Cause of God, as well as the Universal House of Justice, to be universally elected and established, are both under the care and protection of the Abhá Beauty, under the shelter and unerring guidance of the Exalted One (may my life be offered up for them both). Whatsoever they decide is of God. Whoso obeyeth him not, neither obeyeth them, hath not obeyed God; whoso rebelleth against him and against them hath rebelled against God; whoso opposeth him hath opposed God; whoso contendeth with them hath contended with God; whoso disputeth with him hath disputed with God; whoso denieth him hath denied God; whoso disbelieveth in him hath disbelieved in God; whoso deviateth, separateth himself and turneth aside from him hath in truth deviated, separated himself and turned aside from God.

(Will and Testament of Abdu’l-Baha)

Okay.

For my audience, I wanted to admit that this is conclusive proof to me, me understanding somewhat about Baha'i.

So basically, I'm not going to be harsh on @loverofhumanity as quite frankly, he really is telling us what the Baha'i faith seems to say.

I wish it wasn't true. And I'll now have to rethink my religious beliefs and go from here. But I still appreciate having the facts.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You really should just quit before you completely fall off the cliff....

These are really disgusting views and 'bring to light ' the actual truth of your religion towards other humans.

No Prophet of God came to appease but to tell us the truth which is why you will find they were crucified, tortured, stoned, imprisoned and exiled.

 

[Vinayaka]

Becoming a Baha’i is voluntary so if one prefers that sexual orientation then there’s no point in joining a religion which forbids it.

You didn't answer my question. (as I suspected) Will you answer the question?

 

[Vinayaka]

Okay.

For my audience, I wanted to admit that this is conclusive proof to me, me understanding somewhat about Baha'i.

So basically, I'm not going to be harsh on @loverofhumanity as quite frankly, he really is telling us what the Baha'i faith seems to say.

I wish it wasn't true. And I'll now have to rethink my religious beliefs and go from here. But I still appreciate having the facts.

I'm not harsh on individuals, just beliefs. People are totally free to believe whatever they wish, just so long as it isn't forced on others, or coercion or deception isn't used. The Baha'i are generally respectful of choices. That said, I have been called out as having an anti-Baha'i agenda.

You're free to draw your own conclusions, indeed. Best wishes on the continued open-minded exploration.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Okay.

For my audience, I wanted to admit that this is conclusive proof to me, me understanding somewhat about Baha'i.

So basically, I'm not going to be harsh on @loverofhumanity as quite frankly, he really is telling us what the Baha'i faith seems to say.

I wish it wasn't true. And I'll now have to rethink my religious beliefs and go from here. But I still appreciate having the facts.

I want you to know that it was gay Baha’is who saved my life. After 6 suicide attempts my mother was afraid to take me back home but a friend I worked with said he had friends who would put me up. They were awesome people. They had their gay parties but I didn’t take part but I didn’t take offense.

They became lifelong friends and because of them I found Baha’u’llah and joy and happiness so their orientation was between them and God and why should I ever have anything but love for these most beautiful people.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Becoming a Baha’i is voluntary so if one prefers that sexual orientation then there’s no point in joining a religion which forbids it.

But isn't your religion supposed to be the "one true religion" that all humans must join? If so, it's up to you be inclusive and not shut people out. Attitudes like yours are why I left the Catholic Church and worship at an Episcopal parish now.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I want you to know that it was gay Baha’is who saved my life. After 6 suicide attempts my mother was afraid to take me back home but a friend I worked with said he had friends who would put me up. They were awesome people. They had their gay parties but I didn’t take part but I didn’t take offense.

They became lifelong friends and because of them I found Baha’u’llah and joy and happiness so their orientation was between them and God and why should I ever have anything but love for these most beautiful people.

Thanks.

Though it really doesn't console me.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

A number of sexual problems such as homosexuality and transsexuality can well have medical aspects, and in such cases recourse should certainly be had to the best medical assistance

Transsexualism isn't a sexual orientation. You really don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Vinayaka]

I want you to know that it was gay Baha’is who saved my life. After 6 suicide attempts my mother was afraid to take me back home but a friend I worked with said he had friends who would put me up. They were awesome people. They had their gay parties but I didn’t take part but I didn’t take offense.

They became lifelong friends and because of them I found Baha’u’llah and joy and happiness so their orientation was between them and God and why should I ever have anything but love for these most beautiful people.

Friendship evangelism works.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Trying to overcome it with medical assistance is illegal in a lot of places, considered a form of torture. So if a Baha'i was faced with the dilemma of following the laws of the country (as instructed by your leaders) or to use medical intervention on gays, which would take precedence?

It’s primarily between the individual, his own conscience and God how they deal with it. But turning to the Writings and service to humanity and prayer are recommended.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

@loverofhumanity - What are the penalties in the Baha'i faith of unrepented sin?

 

[Vinayaka]

It’s primarily between the individual, his own conscience and God how they deal with it. But turning to the Writings and service to humanity and prayer are recommended.

And of course you still didn't answer the question. (Again not surprised)

 

[loverofhumanity]

And of course you still didn't answer the question. (Again not surprised)

Im not understanding your question then.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Transsexualism isn't a sexual orientation. You really don't know what you're talking about.

Doesn’t it say it’s a problem not an orientation?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Doesn’t it say it’s a problem not an orientation?

It's incorrect.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Doesn’t it say it’s a problem not an orientation?

It's a medical condition treated by medically transitioning with hormone therapy and surgery.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

It's a medical condition treated by medically transitioning with hormone therapy and surgery.

And doing so can, on a lot of occasions, heal gender dysphoria and make the person happier and living a life that's more "them". I think.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

The real problem is, the Baha'i faith is seeming to teach that rejecting homosexuality and transgender gets people in touch with their higher self.

The problem?

If we do use terms like lower self and higher self...

I really, greatly think embracing one's identity or seeking to, helps one's health, which in turn, tends to help them focus on higher self.

Which is still a waste, considering the religions of God are teaching that God no longer likes them for it, when they are taking the steps to improve.

 

[loverofhumanity]

@loverofhumanity - What are the penalties in the Baha'i faith of unrepented sin?

That’s a personal matter between the individual and God. I am unaware of any penalties. These Writings may help.

Should anyone be afflicted by a sin, it behoveth him to repent thereof and return unto his Lord. He, verily, granteth forgiveness unto whomsoever He willeth, and none may question that which it pleaseth Him to ordain. He is, in truth, the Ever-Forgiving, the Almighty, the All-Praised. — Bahá'u'lláh

We cannot repent to others only God privately here’s why.

When the sinner findeth himself wholly detached and freed from all save God, he should beg forgiveness and pardon from Him. Confession of sins and transgressions before human beings is not permissible, as it hath never been nor will ever be conducive to divine forgiveness. Moreover such confession before people results in one’s humiliation and abasement, and God—exalted be His glory—wisheth not the humiliation of His servants. Verily He is the Compassionate, the Merciful. The sinner should, between himself and God, implore mercy from the Ocean of mercy, beg forgiveness from the Heaven of generosity. Baha’u’llah