Baha'i and Science

[loverofhumanity]

The real problem is, the Baha'i faith is seeming to teach that rejecting homosexuality and transgender gets people in touch with their higher self.

The problem?

If we do use terms like lower self and higher self...

I really, greatly think embracing one's identity or seeking to, helps one's health, which in turn, tends to help them focus on higher self.

Which is still a waste, considering the religions of God are teaching that God no longer likes them for it, when they are taking the steps to improve.

One of the biggest concerns in motivating people to establish world peace is the belief that man is a sinner or basically an animal so he can’t change. But we are taught that we are born good and sin free and this fosters hope that we can achieve peace.

 

[loverofhumanity]

It's a medical condition treated by medically transitioning with hormone therapy and surgery.

Thanks.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

The only thing this all tells me, is that Baha'is need to stop saying they promote peace, universal beliefs and listening to science.

Other than that, I'm fine. Why not call a religion a religion if it's a religion?

 

[loverofhumanity]

But isn't your religion supposed to be the "one true religion" that all humans must join? If so, it's up to you be inclusive and not shut people out. Attitudes like yours are why I left the Catholic Church and worship at an Episcopal parish now.

No it’s not. That’s untrue. All the major Faiths we accept as true as well as stages in the spiritual evolution of humanity and are all equally valid with none superior to any other.

The Baha’i Faith is another stage in this evolution who’s goal is to promote the consciousness of the oneness of humanity. When we have achieved this then another Manifestation will appear to guide us further.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

No it’s not. That’s untrue. All the major Faiths we accept as true as well as stages in the spiritual evolution of humanity and are all equally valid with none superior to any other.

The Baha’i Faith is another stage in this evolution who’s goal is to promote the consciousness of the oneness of humanity. When we have achieved this then another Manifestation will appear to guide us further.

What? That's not what I've heard from Baha'is on here. The other religions are apparently seen as outdated and corrupted, and the world is expected to eventually convert to being Baha'i. Now you're telling me completely the opposite, that all religions are equal. Which is it? If all religions are equally valid, why should I join yours? I mean, I'm accepting of religious differences, but I certainly believe that not all religions are true and believe that mine has the fullness of truth. If not, why bother? That's not to disrespect others. I enjoy learning all the different views and respect other religions although I disagree with them.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I'd like to talk about my religion:

My religion is working on my health and what I think best for it. I'm going to go through with becoming transgender because I well think it's best for me.

My religion, is when I die, and meet God in all glory, He hugs me and loves me as His child. Doesn't rebuke me over it.

If this doesn't come to pass, or He doesn't care about me.... well, He wasn't worth my time anyway. I simply believed something which was untrue out of the goodness of my heart.

 

[CG Didymus]

Good stuff Kat-Kat. So many great teachings in the Baha'i Faith, but there's a few things that might be problematic. Sex is one of them. They might go so far as saying that even playing with yourself is wrong. If the Baha'is don't post that reference, I'll look it up. It came from a book called "Unrestrained as the Wind".

The Baha'is are way too conservative for me. But so are conservative Christians. Liberal Baha'is or liberal Christians or liberal anything usually take a... well a liberal, more modern view. And I think there is a liberal vs. conservative side to the Baha'i Faith. The first Baha'is I met were vegetarian nudists. That was back in the early 70's and I was just a wandering hippie kid looking for the truth. I had a great time staying with them. Then I met the conservative Baha'is. It totally changed my view of the Baha'is. Then, in the late 70's, lots of Iranian Baha'is came to the U.S. They also were very conservative. But their kids, they started acting and dressing more like the other kids around them. So I wonder how far their liberalizing will go? Anyway, let me make a few comments on some of the posts. Thanks again Kat-Kat for being real.

Thus I see 100% of what Baha'u'llah offered from God, will unfold and Science will confirm, it is just not at this specific time.

So science that disagrees with Baha'u'llah is wrong? So what happened to religions that don't fit with science are superstitious?

Yes I understand perfectly what homosexuality is but as it is forbidden in our religion then so is it’s spread and promotion forbidden within our communities. Our writings say it is not normal or natural and we should try and overcome it even with medical assistance.

Forbidding it will put gays and lesbian back in the closet. What good is that going to do? Your going to have Baha'is that have a "secret" life. And I think the ones that try to "get medical help" will become neurotic messes.

Homosexuality is not something that can be spread, you make it sound like it’s contagious.

I think that because it is more open now, more people are giving it a try. I've even relaxed my views and actually enjoy watching two women enjoying themselves. I know. I'm sick for thinking like that. May God forgive me. Until the next time I do it.

A number of sexual problems such as homosexuality and transsexuality can well have medical aspects, and in such cases recourse should certainly be had to the best medical assistance. But it is clear from the teaching of Bahá'u'lláh that homosexuality is not a condition to which a person should be reconciled, but is a distortion of his or her nature which should be controlled and overcome.

So a person should not let the "condition" continue unchecked... but should seek help? The Christians even had the devil to blame for getting the demon of gayness into people's head. And it didn't work. People still choose being gay. And how many people's lives were totally destroyed because they couldn't cope with what the Church was telling them and what they felt inside and how they choose to live... as a closet gay?

Becoming a Baha’i is voluntary so if one prefers that sexual orientation then there’s no point in joining a religion which forbids it.

So here we have the new, wonderful truth from God. Christ has returned. And if you're gay, there is something wrong with you. So if you don't like it. Don't join? No, God wants them. But God wants them to change?

So basically, I'm not going to be harsh on @loverofhumanity as quite frankly, he really is telling us what the Baha'i faith seems to say.

I wish it wasn't true. And I'll now have to rethink my religious beliefs and go from here. But I still appreciate having the facts.

That's sad. To know that you have to change what is in your heart and head to fully become a Baha'i. Knowing that we all have problems. There's going to be Baha'is child molesters, adulterers, embezzlers, liars and all sorts of "sinful' people that aren't going to change, unless they get caught. But a gay person that is honest is expected to change?

I want you to know that it was gay Baha’is who saved my life.

So why did they join a religion knowing that being gay is forbidden? Yet, they were maybe more loving and kind to you, then the more "perfect" straight Baha'is? Anyway, I shouldn't be so harsh to you either. Obviously, you are a much better person for having become a Baha'i. But, how are your gay Baha'i friends doing? Have the conservative Baha'is tried to get them to get "straightened" out?

What are the penalties in the Baha'i faith of unrepented sin?

Yes, what are they? Christians say confess it to Jesus and he will forgive you. But, it kind of implies that you repent and don't do it anymore.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Now some might say that I'm not willing to follow God. But an honest God doesn't hide facts. He wouldn't let science say one thing to millions of people, that isn't true, with them following it with life changing consequences. And if He did, and can send manifestations of God, like the Baha'is think - He can simply send another manifestation to set us all straight.

 

[loverofhumanity]

What? That's not what I've heard from Baha'is on here. The other religions are apparently seen as outdated and corrupted, and the world is expected to eventually convert to being Baha'i. Now you're telling me completely the opposite, that all religions are equal. Which is it? If all religions are equally valid, why should I join yours? I mean, I'm accepting of religious differences, but I certainly believe that not all religions are true and believe that mine has the fullness of truth. If not, why bother? That's not to disrespect others. I enjoy learning all the different views and respect other religions although I disagree with them.

Baha’u’llah answers your question directly.

“In thine esteemed letter thou hadst inquired which of the Prophets of God should be regarded as superior to others. Know thou assuredly that the essence of all the Prophets of God is one and the same. Their unity is absolute. God, the Creator, saith: There is no distinction whatsoever among the Bearers of My Message. They all have but one purpose; their secret is the same secret. To prefer one in honor to another, to exalt certain ones above the rest, is in no wise to be permitted.”


Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh
Bahá’u’lláh

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Baha’u’llah answers your question directly.

“In thine esteemed letter thou hadst inquired which of the Prophets of God should be regarded as superior to others. Know thou assuredly that the essence of all the Prophets of God is one and the same. Their unity is absolute. God, the Creator, saith: There is no distinction whatsoever among the Bearers of My Message. They all have but one purpose; their secret is the same secret. To prefer one in honor to another, to exalt certain ones above the rest, is in no wise to be permitted.”


Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh
Bahá’u’lláh

To accept this view is to pick Baha'i and Bahaullah over the other faiths.

Otherwise, we must also weigh what all other faiths say equally, on this matter.

 

[loverofhumanity]

God I believe knows what’s best for us. His Prophets suffered greatly to bring us guidance for our lives.. They were tortured, crucified, stoned, imprisoned and exiled for our sakes. They have proven by Their lives that They had only our best interests at heart and desired nothing for Themselves neither power, wealth nor earthly comforts.

If They have given us teachings and laws these are for our own happiness and in our own best interest but some things They have denied us as They are All Knowing.

“We approve of liberty in certain circumstances, and refuse to sanction it in others. We, verily, are the All-Knowing.”

Bahá’u’lláh

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

God I believe knows what’s best for us. His Prophets suffered greatly to bring us guidance for our lives.. They were tortured, crucified, stoned, imprisoned and exiled for our sakes. They have proven by Their lives that They had only our best interests at heart and desired nothing for Themselves neither power, wealth nor earthly comforts.

If They have given us teachings and laws these are for our own happiness and in our own best interest but some things They have denied us as They are All Knowing.

“We approve of liberty in certain circumstances, and refuse to sanction it in others. We, verily, are the All-Knowing.”

Bahá’u’lláh

I do appreciate your posts in this thread. They aren't wrong in the context of what the Baha'i faith says - I don't think.

In my view however, what you stated is a form of God pushing me away. Then His followers push me away too, indirectly or directly. There's only so much one can take from God before they become an atheist.

 

[loverofhumanity]

To accept this view is to pick Baha'i and Bahaullah over the other faiths.

Otherwise, we must also weigh what all other faiths say equally, on this matter.

I accept all the Founders of all the major Faiths. Buddha, Krishna, Muhammad, Zoroaster, Jesus and Moses. They all taught truth. The only difference was in Their social laws which were adapted to the age and people where They appeared but the spiritual teachings such as the virtues, holiness and upright character, They all taught these things.

We read from all Their Sacred Scriptures in our Houses of Worship all around the world each week not only the Baha’i Writings and you will find on the architecture of our Temples engraved the religious symbols of all these religions. We truly believe in them all.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Anyways, I don't remember a thread on this forum more helpful to me than this one.

I'm doing well discussing it, not upset at all if I believe Bahaullah or don't believe in Bahaullah's messages.

 

[Debater Slayer]

One of the biggest concerns in motivating people to establish world peace is the belief that man is a sinner or basically an animal so he can’t change. But we are taught that we are born good and sin free and this fosters hope that we can achieve peace.

And of course, one of the most crucial steps to achieving peace is combating hateful, homophobic, and unscientific beliefs with logical and rational discourse.

I would guess Baha'u'llah rather predictably didn't talk about that, though.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I accept all the Founders of all the major Faiths. Buddha, Krishna, Muhammad, Zoroaster, Jesus and Moses. They all taught truth. The only difference was in Their social laws which were adapted to the age and people where They appeared but the spiritual teachings such as the virtues, holiness and upright character, They all taught these things.

We read from all Their Sacred Scriptures in our Houses of Worship all around the world each week not only the Baha’i Writings and you will find on the architecture of our Temples engraved the religious symbols of all these religions. We truly believe in them all.

My point was:

Baha'i makes assertion all faiths are equal

You believe Baha'i

But you must also investigate all the other faiths it claims

Because one contradictory message on this matter, and the two faiths being equal, cancel the statement out

 

[Vinayaka]

Im not understanding your question then.

If the choice was between breaking the law of the country you live in (trying to convert a gay, by therapy, which is illegal in many places) or going ahead with it because your faith tells you to, which would you do? So it's really a choice between your country's laws and your faith. (Again, I expect deflection.)

 

[loverofhumanity]

I do appreciate your posts in this thread. They aren't wrong in the context of what the Baha'i faith says - I don't think.

In my view however, what you stated is a form of God pushing me away. Then His followers push me away too, indirectly or directly. There's only so much one can take from God before they become an atheist.

Just follow your own heart.

 

[Vinayaka]

No it’s not. That’s untrue. All the major Faiths we accept as true

You believe in reincarnation AND heaven and hell? You believe in Ganesha AND that idol worship is sinful? You believe that Jesus existed AND that he didn't? You believe that women and men are equal AND that women aren't fit to serve on the UHJ? It must be so confusing to believe in all this obviously contradictory stuff.

 

[Vinayaka]

I accept all the Founders of all the major Faiths. Buddha, Krishna, Muhammad, Zoroaster, Jesus and Moses. They all taught truth. The only difference was in Their social laws which were adapted to the age and people where They appeared but the spiritual teachings such as the virtues, holiness and upright character, They all taught these things.

We read from all Their Sacred Scriptures in our Houses of Worship all around the world each week not only the Baha’i Writings and you will find on the architecture of our Temples engraved the religious symbols of all these religions. We truly believe in them all.

Again, Krishna is not the founder of Hinduism. Hinduism has no founder. Just where are you getting all this wrong information?