Atheists: Would you like to believe in God if there was good evidence for God?

[Trailblazer]

Trouble is that we can say that about anything in the Bible, including the bits where it says God exists. Maybe men just wrote it and claimed that God exists.

This is where the use of your rational mind comes into play.
It makes sense that God can exist without all those things in the Bible being true, given how they came to be written.
But I can understand how it would be difficult to parse it out if you did not already believe God exists.

 

[Trailblazer]

I may be gay, but I try hard to give straight answers.

Cool. So where's the thread we talked about showing your God exists, via a demonstration that Baha'u'llah is a "Manifestation" of your God?

I have had the thread all ready to post but then I got waylaid by @ ecco when he kept insisting what he said in the OP.

I am reticent to post another thread right now, because I worry I won't have time to tend it. I might do it tomorrow though depending upon how this one goes.

 

[Trailblazer]

There would be a difference between believing that a god exists, and then having to believe/trust in it. If it were a wanker of a god, everyone would believe it exists yet doesn’t mean that anyone has to believe/trust in it.

That is a good point.

The first hurdle one has to cross is to believe that God exists...
The second hurdle to cross is knowing and trusting God.
I am still on the second hurdle and I might be on it till I die.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

On another thread….

Trailblazer said: Many atheists say they would like to believe in God if they only had the evidence.

@ ecco said:
Name one. Show where he/she said "they would like to believe in God if they only had the evidence." That isn't what atheists say. That's what theists would like to believe atheists say.

Trailblazer said: Holy moly! ~~~ This is practically all atheists say, at least to me. Sorry, I cannot quote atheists from other forums because that is not right. They posted to me on other forums in confidence. Sure, they are public forums, but it is bad practice to take posts from one forum to another forum. But it is not only on the “other forums” where atheists have said this. They have also said it on RF. I am not saying that ALL atheists would like to believe in God if they had the evidence, since some atheists probably have no interest in God. But if they don’t have any interest in God, why is this forum comprised of as many atheists as believers? Hmmmmm.....

This would be a great topic for a new thread:

“Atheists: Would you like to believe in God if there was good evidence for God?”

Please answer 1, 2 or 3.

1) Yes, I would like to believe in God if there was evidence that was good enough.
2) I am not sure. I might like to believe in God if there was evidence that was good enough.
3) No, I would not like to believe in God even if there was evidence that was good enough.

* By good enough I mean evidence that was sufficient for you to believe that God exists, evidence that proved to you that God exists.

Believe me, there are so many people who do not believe in gods that for any one person to say all atheists look for evidence before belief is totally, how can I say... how -can- one say?

I don't believe and know gods/deities -more than one- does not exist isolated from its culture, tradition, and history that both defines and creates these gods. Have you ever wondered why gods need scripture, some gods need practice and tradition, and some gods need an alter state of awareness for some sort of "experience" to exist? Not all humans have a grand awareness they put higher than themselves. So, no. Not everyone who does not believe in gods want to believe once they have evidence.

That's just. Silly.

Personally, I can care less about evidence. If I believed deities exist, it would probably be more Hindu oriented. I'd also be a polytheist regardless the religion. But evidence? That, and if it were more Hindu oriented it would be based on Practice not concrete evidence one can hold in one's hands or chart on paper.

Online atheists maybe say this? But then there are so many people who don't believe in god on the internet I have not enough fingers to count. It's a generalization based on personal experience; it's a fallacy that is not true.

And there are many many religions that don't rely on needing to believe deities exist. The assumption is false objectively. I did challenge this probably many times, but, well...

 

[Left Coast]

This is where the use of your rational mind comes into play.
It makes sense that God can exist without all those things in the Bible being true, given how they came to be written.
But I can understand how it would be difficult to parse it out if you did not already believe God exists.

But it also makes sense that your religious texts are just as made up by men as the Bible. All of the above were written by men claiming to speak for a God who won't bother to show himself to tell us directly what he actually thinks. What's a godless heathen to do?

 

[Trailblazer]

But it also makes sense that your religious texts are just as made up by men as the Bible. All of the above were written by men claiming to speak for a God who won't bother to show himself to tell us directly what he actually thinks. What's a godless heathen to do?

The salient difference between the Bible and the Writings of Baha'u'llah is that we have the original writings of Baha'u'llah penned in His own hand. We do not have that for Jesus. All we have is what men wrote that came to us by way of oral tradition. The OT is not authentic either. There is no way to verify that it was written by Moses and I do not even think anyone makes such a claim.

So the only hurdle we have to cross is to determine if Baha'u'llah was really a Manifestation of God.
I am not saying that is a small hurdle. Stay tuned to this channel and we will see.

 

[Left Coast]

The salient difference between the Bible and the Writings of Baha'u'llah is that we have the original writings of Baha'u'llah penned in His own hand. We do not have that for Jesus. All we have is what men wrote that came to us by way of oral tradition. The OT is not authentic either. There is no way to verify that it was written by Moses and I do not even think anyone makes such a claim.

So what you're saying is, second-hand information is not trustworthy when you want to know what a person really thought/said. Got it.

Yet your entire religion is premised on the idea that second-hand information is the chosen route of communication God chose to convey his thoughts to humanity. Hmmm.....

So the only hurdle we have to cross is to determine if Baha'u'llah was really a Manifestation of God.
I am not saying that is a small hurdle. Stay tuned to this channel and we will see.

Uh huh.

 

[Trailblazer]

So what you're saying is, second-hand information is not trustworthy when you want to know what a person really thought/said. Got it.

Yet your entire religion is premised on the idea that second-hand information is the chosen route of communication God chose to convey his thoughts to humanity. Hmmm.....

Maybe you missed my point. You can call what Baha'u'llah wrote second-hand because God did not write it, but since God does not write, that was the only way we could get any scriptures.

However, what is in the Bible is not even second hand because there were many hands in it before it hit parchment. Do you not even see the difference between authentic scriptures whose author is known and scriptures for which we cannot even verify the authors? Never before in religious history have we had any authentic scriptures penned in the hand of a Manifestation of God. That is as close as we can ever get to the Word of God. Everything else is far removed. Not only is the Bible not authentic, it has transcription errors and many translations all of which differ, whereas there are no transcription errors in the Writings of Baha'u'llah and there is only one "official" translation. That is as good as it gets.

So as I said the only hurdle to cross is if Baha'u'llah was who He claimed to be.
Most people do not get over that hurdle but one cannot know if they will unless they try.

 

[Left Coast]

Maybe you missed my point. You can call what Baha'u'llah wrote second-hand because God did not write it, but since God does not write, that was the only way we could get any scriptures.

Exactly what any good Bible/Quran/Book of Mormon/literally any other Scripture believer would say.

However, what is in the Bible is not even second hand because there were many hands in it before it hit parchment. Do you not even see the difference between authentic scriptures whose author is known and scriptures for which we cannot even verify the authors?

The degrees of removal from the originals are certainly a problem when it comes to knowing what the Biblical originals said, absolutely. However, whether something is written down directly by someone or whether it gets passed down through others, it could still just as easily be true or false.

Never before in religious history have we had any authentic scriptures penned in the hand of a Manifestation of God. That is as close as we can ever get to the Word of God. Everything else is far removed. Not only is the Bible not authentic, it has transcription errors and many translations all of which differ, whereas there are no transcription errors in the Writings of Baha'u'llah and there is only one "official" translation. That is as good as it gets.

Anyone can claim to be a representative of God and write things down. Many besides Bahaullah have down so. How do you actually determine if they're correct? This should be one of the major questions you answer in your upcoming post.

 

[leov]

On another thread….

Trailblazer said: Many atheists say they would like to believe in God if they only had the evidence.

@ ecco said:
Name one. Show where he/she said "they would like to believe in God if they only had the evidence." That isn't what atheists say. That's what theists would like to believe atheists say.

Trailblazer said: Holy moly! ~~~ This is practically all atheists say, at least to me. Sorry, I cannot quote atheists from other forums because that is not right. They posted to me on other forums in confidence. Sure, they are public forums, but it is bad practice to take posts from one forum to another forum. But it is not only on the “other forums” where atheists have said this. They have also said it on RF. I am not saying that ALL atheists would like to believe in God if they had the evidence, since some atheists probably have no interest in God. But if they don’t have any interest in God, why is this forum comprised of as many atheists as believers? Hmmmmm.....

This would be a great topic for a new thread:

“Atheists: Would you like to believe in God if there was good evidence for God?”

Please answer 1, 2 or 3.

1) Yes, I would like to believe in God if there was evidence that was good enough.
2) I am not sure. I might like to believe in God if there was evidence that was good enough.
3) No, I would not like to believe in God even if there was evidence that was good enough.

* By good enough I mean evidence that was sufficient for you to believe that God exists, evidence that proved to you that God exists.

the truth is atheist , true atheist is not capable to detect God.

 

[Aupmanyav]

On another thread….
Trailblazer said: Many atheists say they would like to believe in God if they only had the evidence.

There is no question of liking or disliking. We believe evidence. Do you have any other than what someone said:

"While engulfed in tribulations I heard a most wondrous, a most sweet voice, calling above My head. Turning My face, I beheld a Maiden - the embodiment of the remembrance of the name of My Lord - suspended in the air before Me. So rejoiced was she in her very soul that her countenance shone with the ornament of the good-pleasure of God, and her cheeks glowed with the brightness of the All-Merciful. Betwixt Earth and Heaven she was raising a call which captivated the hearts and minds of men. She was imparting to both My inward and outer being tidings which rejoiced My soul, and the souls of God's honoured servants. Pointing with her finger unto My head, she addressed all who are in Heaven and all who are on Earth saying: "By God! This is the best beloved of the worlds, and yet ye comprehend not. This is the Beauty of God amongst you, and the power of His sovereignty within you, could ye but understand."
Maid of Heaven - Wikipedia

 

[Trailblazer]

Exactly what any good Bible/Quran/Book of Mormon/literally any other Scripture believer would say.

They can SAY whatever they want to say but they have no verifiable evidence to back it up the way Baha'is do. The original Tablets of Baha'u'llah reside in the archives building in Haifa, Israel. Nobody questions that He wrote them in His Own Pen.

Exhibition of Baha’u’llah’s Writings Opens at British Museum
Baha’u’llah’s Pen

The degrees of removal from the originals are certainly a problem when it comes to knowing what the Biblical originals said, absolutely. However, whether something is written down directly by someone or whether it gets passed down through others, it could still just as easily be true or false.

That is absolutely true. It could be true or false, but at least we know exactly what Baha'u'llah wrote.

Anyone can claim to be a representative of God and write things down. Many besides Bahaullah have down so. How do you actually determine if they're correct? This should be one of the major questions you answer in your upcoming post.

You mean anyone can claim to be a Representative of God and write things down. They would have a hard time proving that. Yes, that will be the subject of my upcoming thread.

 

[Heyo]

“Atheists: Would you like to believe in God if there was good evidence for God?”

I have never understood how one can "like" what one believes. Facts and theories simply are. It doesn't make sense to like or dislike them. Such a preference may even lead to delusion (denial of reality).

 

[Trailblazer]

the truth is atheist , true atheist is not capable to detect God.

Why not?

 

[Trailblazer]

There is no question of liking or disliking. We believe evidence. Do you have any?

This thread is not about what evidence I have.
The question is: Would you like to believe in God if there was good evidence for God?
Imagine you have evidence that proves to you that God exists. Would you like to believe in God?

 

[leov]

Why not?

Non functional heterodyne receiver.

 

[Trailblazer]

I have never understood how one can "like" what one believes. Facts and theories simply are. It doesn't make sense to like or dislike them. Such a preference may even lead to delusion (denial of reality).

No, it does not make sense to like or dislike the truth, if it exists.
Such a preference could lead to a denial of reality.

What I was really trying to get as was whether atheists would be happy believing in God if they had the evidence that they require to believe in God.

 

[Trailblazer]

Non functional heterodyne receiver.

I still do not understand.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Imagine you have evidence that proves to you that God exists. Would you like to believe in God?

As I said, confronted with evidence, there is no question of liking or disliking it, you have to accept the evidence. What Bahaullah says is second hand by definition, you have yourself not heard the 'Maid of Heaven' say something. Have you?

Bahaullah was born too late. Had he been born in 9th Century, perhaps people would have believed what he said. But unfortunately, he was born in 19th Century.

 

[Trailblazer]

As I said, confronted with evidence, there is no question of liking or disliking it, you have to accept the evidence. What Bahaullah says is second hand by definition, you have yourself not heard the 'Maid of Heaven' say something. Have you?

No, you do have to accept the evidence just because you have it. You could reject the evidence if you did not like the idea of believing in God. It would not be wise to reject it, but you could.

No, I never heard the Maid of Heaven, only Baha'u'llah heard her.
If I had heard her then I would be a Manifestation of God, but I'm not.